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RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/2/2008 6:12:54 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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I understand, breathesasone. You also said you couldn't fathom it, and I was offering a point of view so that you could understand those who enjoy it and who don't equate it to not loving someone. I didn't take offense to your post, nor did I think you took offense to a perspective different to your own. Just a sharing of perspective, here. :)

(in reply to breatheasone)

Post #: 21

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/2/2008 6:16:14 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: parttimehotty

i'm sure all of you must be tired of my incessant questions by this time. i assure you that i don't mean to be annoying, i'm just very curious and this is my best resource at this time to find the answers to my questions about BDSM. Humiliation.....when you humiliate a sub/or slave about their looks, ie calling them ugly/or fat, is this something you mean when you say it or is it something you enjoy doing and will verbally humilate despite the fact that it's true or not?

Respectfully

Depends on the sub (of course)...and equally...depends on the subs desire to be approached that way.

If it's what he/she wants....it's a good thing.

If not...(it's a bad thing).

(in reply to parttimehotty)

Post #: 22

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/2/2008 6:22:39 PM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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Much appreciated too ...I do, and will continue to enjoy listening and learning from others here...Thank you. Also...just because I don't change my mind about something doesn't mean I necessarily think its wrong...just wrong FOR ME.

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(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 23

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/2/2008 6:25:25 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: parttimehotty

i'm sure all of you must be tired of my incessant questions by this time. i assure you that i don't mean to be annoying, i'm just very curious and this is my best resource at this time to find the answers to my questions about BDSM. Humiliation.....when you humiliate a sub/or slave about their looks, ie calling them ugly/or fat, is this something you mean when you say it or is it something you enjoy doing and will verbally humilate despite the fact that it's true or not?

Respectfully

Our current use of the term humiliate is a corruption of its original meaning. Actually if we look at the root of the word it has the meaning to make humble, from the same latin root;

Humiliate [Origin: 1525–35; < LL humiliātus (ptp. of humiliāre to humble), equiv. to L humili(s) humble + -ātus -ate1]

Humble [Origin: 1200–50; ME (h)umble < OF < L humilis lowly, insignificant, on the ground.

When I am humiliated I see it, feel it and experience as an action intended not to 'hurt' but to bring me literally and metaphorically to the ground, to humble me. And thus in humbling me I am actually empowered.
If I choose to feel hurt then that is also empowering since it remains with me how, with what and the process whereby I empower myself to recover from the pain.

Prin xxx

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 1/2/2008 6:26:26 PM >

(in reply to parttimehotty)

Post #: 24

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/2/2008 6:34:02 PM

cautiousiasub

Posts: 199
Joined: 10/17/2005
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Sometimes, a thread jumps out at me at just the right time. While verbal humiliation isn't something I have any experience with, it is something that we have discussed about trying in the future. It's good to hear what others have to say about it, and to see both sides of the coin. One of the concerns that I had and brought up was his opinion of me (does he really think of me that way, etc.) His response was very similar to what Honsoku said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku

Think about this though; if I truly thought she was worthless, or that the flaw was so important, why would I waste my time dealing with her?

Honsoku

_____________________________

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(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 25

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 7:56:59 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cautiousiasub

Sometimes, a thread jumps out at me at just the right time. While verbal humiliation isn't something I have any experience with, it is something that we have discussed about trying in the future. It's good to hear what others have to say about it, and to see both sides of the coin. One of the concerns that I had and brought up was his opinion of me (does he really think of me that way, etc.) His response was very similar to what Honsoku said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku

Think about this though; if I truly thought she was worthless, or that the flaw was so important, why would I waste my time dealing with her?

Honsoku

I will add the same thing from the opposite end that I comment on in these types of threads. If I thought my Master really believed some of the more hurtful things in this type of play or did not respect or care for me I would not be with him in the first place. I have never judged a person on a moment when I have so many other things that we have expereinced together.

I just think two people who know and care for each other and are into humiliation play that careful is not really needed but for people who do not know each other and start to explore then careful is a smart way to go.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to cautiousiasub)

Post #: 26

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 8:09:25 AM

undefined

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Fall River, Mass
Status: offline

Just one note of caution with the "fat/ugly" insult line of thought: be aware that certain insults might hold unexpected power for certain people. If someone was victimized as a child by extreme bullying, of the entire-class-verses-one-child variety, some specific words might trigger some extreme emotional reactions. While this might be the desired reaction you're going through, just know that it can lead to some extra after-care.

For example I've been insulted and humiliated plenty during play, but as I had a particularly difficult time throughout my entire school career because of comments about my weight (oddly enough even before I was over-weight even), any insult in that area tends to send me in a bad direction because I immediately go "yes, I know I'm fat and ugly... I'm so sorry I'm not more beautiful..." etc etc down a rather unhealthy path. At that moment my mind doesn't remember all the men and women that have thought me to be very attractive, all I remember are my past experiences. I'm actually MUCH better about it now, but it's still something Sire takes into consideration when we play. Striking such emotional nerves during a scene can completely disrupt the energy behind it to the disappointment of both parties involved.

Just my two cents, clearly due to my personal experience in the area.

_____________________________

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(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 27

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 8:55:16 AM

gorgeous1

Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undefined

Just one note of caution with the "fat/ugly" insult line of thought: be aware that certain insults might hold unexpected power for certain people. If someone was victimized as a child by extreme bullying, of the entire-class-verses-one-child variety, some specific words might trigger some extreme emotional reactions. While this might be the desired reaction you're going through, just know that it can lead to some extra after-care.

For example I've been insulted and humiliated plenty during play, but as I had a particularly difficult time throughout my entire school career because of comments about my weight (oddly enough even before I was over-weight even), any insult in that area tends to send me in a bad direction because I immediately go "yes, I know I'm fat and ugly... I'm so sorry I'm not more beautiful..." etc etc down a rather unhealthy path. At that moment my mind doesn't remember all the men and women that have thought me to be very attractive, all I remember are my past experiences. I'm actually MUCH better about it now, but it's still something Sire takes into consideration when we play. Striking such emotional nerves during a scene can completely disrupt the energy behind it to the disappointment of both parties involved.

Just my two cents, clearly due to my personal experience in the area.

This all boils down to...KNOW THY SUB

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(in reply to undefined)

Post #: 28

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 9:38:16 AM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Or take someone who has been prim-and-proper and is letting go sexually for the first time. Calling her a "slut," "cockslut," "cum-guzzling cockwhore" (use your imagination) can hurt--especially while she's guzzling your cum...

Humiliation can be a great way to break down people's artificial boundaries and help them embrace who they really are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I think the point isn't whether or not it is true. The point is whether or not it is humiliating

Yes Yes Yes...

Too many people think that humiliation is the same for everybody. Calling me names and all that is like water off a duck's back, but make me say I want to ummm, you know, do that thing that people do... when we get all excited and want to you know, taste or touch ... well, whatever... *blushes deep purple.

It takes patience to learn where a sub/slave/bottom's insecurities live so that you can really use the humiliation tool.

*goes to hide in my room, hoping the ground will swallow me up.

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 29

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 10:21:48 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, sure, but it's a whole lot more humiliating if the person feels there's truth to it. If someone is 100% confident about her body and feels that she's in great shape, calling her a "fat pig" just might not get through. That only works with someone who already has concerns about her weight. Of course, verbal humiliation works psychologically, so what really matters isn't whether she IS fat, but whether she has deep CONCERNS about being fat. Or take someone who has been prim-and-proper and is letting go sexually for the first time. Calling her a "slut," "cockslut," "cum-guzzling cockwhore" (use your imagination) can hurt--especially while she's guzzling your cum...

Humiliation can be a great way to break down people's artificial boundaries and help them embrace who they really are.

This is exactly how I see it! He likes me the way I am, so if he calls me a fat piggy, a greedy whore, etc. it is humiliating on one level yet a celebration of all the aspects of me.

edited to try to fix the quote box

< Message edited by catize -- 1/3/2008 10:23:21 AM >

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 30

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 12:12:17 PM

kittyinpink

Posts: 83
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline

Maybe I'm too fresh out of highschool, but when verbal humiltion goes to my weight or my looks I immediately get self-conscious. I'm pretty confident with myself until attacks start coming from the people I love. Another thing that makes a bit wary of this type of humilation is that my therapist has warned me against it. She's supportive of my play in BDSM but warns me that in her opinion humiliation play isn't healthy.

That being said, I do like it when Daddy calls me his slut.

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(in reply to catize)

Post #: 31

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 12:20:24 PM

sweetwenchie

Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

I have a major love/hate relationship with verbal humiliation. It is one thing guaranteed to leave me squirming in embarassment, and excitement. The only areas I still have issues with in regards to verbal humiliation is when it is directed at my weight. Like so many women who are not the "ideal" size 0, I do have some body issues that can impact how I take the verbal abuse. Other than that... bring it onnnnnn.

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." - De Beauvoir

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

(in reply to parttimehotty)

Post #: 32

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 12:54:04 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: parttimehotty

i'm sure all of you must be tired of my incessant questions by this time. i assure you that i don't mean to be annoying, i'm just very curious and this is my best resource at this time to find the answers to my questions about BDSM. Humiliation.....when you humiliate a sub/or slave about their looks, ie calling them ugly/or fat, is this something you mean when you say it or is it something you enjoy doing and will verbally humilate despite the fact that it's true or not?

Respectfully

As a fan of humiliation, I wanted to answer your question. First, because as long as I have been alive, I have believed...for the most part...in the old cliche that there is no such thing as a stupid question (for the most part...some questions ARE INDEED stupid...~g~). Second, because I see humiliation and degradation as two very differing things.

If humiliation does indeed make the submissive humble while arousing her sexuality and/or her submission, then I consider it to be humiliation. It does not harm her emotionally or physically or spiritually...instead, it uplifts her, makes her feel...in what I grant you, many see as a paradox...like she is "more" (whatever the more is...sexier, sluttier, hotter, submissive) than she felt before. It works.

Degradation. If I say or do something that leaves a submissive feeling less than what they are and that feeling now becomes one of permanence, if I say or do something that leaves physical, emotional, spiritual harm in its wake in the name of humiliation, then I have not used humiliation...I have used degradation. Degradation has mean-spiritedness at its' core...not a desire to humble one's submissive but rather, to take their basic foundations and beliefs out from under her, to harm her.

Now, this is where it comes down to what is really important in this...knowing your submissive. As sunshine miss noted, using terms such as "cocksucker" or "fuck toy" would not have much of an effect on her but, make her beg to be allowed to suck your cock and she immediately feels that good kind of humiliation. For someone else, it may be just the opposite. Or you can have a case where one submissive's uplifting/turn-me-on humiliation is another submissive's harmful/tear-me-down-and-give-me-a-complex degradation. You do have to know your partner.

(in reply to parttimehotty)

Post #: 33

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/3/2008 1:17:21 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

hotty,

worry not about the number of and quality of your questions. Your correct, that is what the forums is for.

That being said, humiliation is a special kind of interaction. Most times it is seldom used by a Dominant that truely cars for his/her submissive, UNLESS, they crave it. Yes, there are many on the path that do crave it.

CP

(in reply to parttimehotty)

Post #: 34

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/4/2008 1:34:50 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

(I should add...that question wasn't humiliating at all).

(in reply to parttimehotty)

Post #: 35

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/4/2008 1:35:51 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeous1
This all boils down to...KNOW THY SUB

(Was that in Levitcus 7?)

(in reply to gorgeous1)

Post #: 36

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/8/2008 4:27:55 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Now, this is where it comes down to what is really important in this...knowing your submissive. As sunshine miss noted, using terms such as "cocksucker" or "fuck toy" would not have much of an effect on her but, make her beg to be allowed to suck your cock and she immediately feels that good kind of humiliation. For someone else, it may be just the opposite. Or you can have a case where one submissive's uplifting/turn-me-on humiliation is another submissive's harmful/tear-me-down-and-give-me-a-complex degradation. You do have to know your partner.

ooo ooo ooo... *hides my face... and feels that .. umm happy feeling in my panties.

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 37

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/8/2008 4:40:43 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Humiliation... makes her feel...like she is "more" (whatever the more is...sexier, sluttier, hotter, submissive) than she felt before. It works.

Degradation has mean-spiritedness at its' core... to harm her.

Lots of snippage to get to the parts that spoke to me...

Well thanks a whole BUNCH there CD, now I've got to go off and rethink this whole damn thing. Arrrgghhh!

Cali

_____________________________

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 38

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/8/2008 4:57:24 PM

MadameButterfly

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

Humiliation is a dangerous game; the reason I say this is because of the emotional and psychological ramifications of this sort of “play”. The reason I am pointing this out is because there are those out there that do not understand human emotion, that have the perception humiliating someone is or should be something that the submissive/slave/bottom should be able to blow off easily. We all like to think we are strong individuals and that our self esteem can handle anything. However this is not always the case, I have personally watched the damaging effects of humiliation play. So what is my point??? Well my point is that we need to know our limitations – we need to know our submissive/slave/bottom estremely well; and we need to be sure that the after care provided is nurturing and warm so that they understand that the play and or scene is over. The submissive/slave/bottom needs to know that the words do not reflect how we feel about them... it`s much like roleplay... we need to suspend disbelief to create the effect we desire. For Example; I will call my boy a filthy slut when using a strapon on him, because of the reactions he gives me. My boy knows that he is Momma`s boy and that I would go to the end of world for him and he knows that he is loved and protected always by me. So if you are being verbally humilated and is causing some serious issue use your safe word. If you have participated in humiliation play and are having emotional and or psychological issues stemming from a scene or session then talk to the person you are playing with... seek positive affirmations rather than assume they meant what they said.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 39

RE: Verbal humiliation question - 1/8/2008 5:20:47 PM

AFlyInYourWeb

Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameButterfly

– we need to know our submissive/slave/bottom estremely well; and we need to be sure that the after care provided is nurturing and warm so that they understand that the play and or scene is over. The submissive/slave/bottom needs to know that the words do not reflect how we feel about them... My boy knows that he is Momma`s boy and that I would go to the end of world for him and he knows that he is loved and protected always by me.

In other posts, I have said that what I seek in a Domina was "Caring & Competence". The above-captioned sentences sum up what those words mean to me in practice.

After-care is an important component of any sort of emotionally-charged play, but especially where humiliation and/or degradation are involved. After-care can take many forms. Regardless of form, it should remind the submissive that whatever they "took" from the Dominant made them more valuable to that Dominant.

< Message edited by AFlyInYourWeb -- 1/8/2008 5:21:58 PM >

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(in reply to MadameButterfly)

Post #: 40

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