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ElanSubdued -> Reply to DiannaVesta. (1/3/2008 4:11:57 PM)
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DiannaVesta,
I often enjoy your writing and find your radio shows spot on. Much of what you've written here resonates with me too, however, the actual mechanics left me cold. I suppose it's the manipulative nature in how you described "begging and groveling" that I have a problem with. Also, in my opinion, it isn't necessarily these acts that empower a mistress. Rather, communicating, flirting, and engaging appropriately are the empowering factors. Nobody likes to be handed a wet noodle. It's much more fun when each partner is an active participant with power flowing in both directions. We largely agree in this regard. The following comments you made most certainly connected with me:
quote:
In order for me to get excited with a submissive man I must be able to feel empowered. First I am empowered by the control you relinquish to me. I am then further motivated and seduced by the artful way I can dissect you and further gain control. This is a dynamic that can only be achieved by two; one projects (me) and the other absorbs (you). If you are selfishly feeding me your needs I will quickly begin to lose interest, however if you seduce me by artfully begging and groveling then we can both soar into the femdom dynamic.
(snip)
Nothing will make me lose interest faster then a wet rag that falls before me expecting me to do all the work in creating that dynamic. Perhaps some Domina's prefer a shy and lifeless slave, however I assure you that if she wants you to shut up and be still then she will order you to do. Otherwise its up to you to physically and verbally stimulate her.
(snip)
Dominant women LOVE acts of submission and devotion. Remember that they are not like most women. They love it when you talk, tell them that you adore them, exist to please them and MEAN it. I am thrilled when I have a verbal slave that expresses himself. Especially on the phone where I can't see him. I love it when he describes the things he's doing to me during fantasy calls. I also want to hear what makes him weak, "Goddess your beautiful ass makes me weak." I want to hear everything that excites him because these are the tools I'll be using to gain control. If you are lucky enough to encounter a skilled Domina you will see the art of erotic control in full action. Hopefully you are skilled at seducing and keeping her attention.
It is here that we start to diverge:
quote:
If you want to seduce her dominance towards something that you have an interest in then you can't expect her to read your mind nor should you expect her to EVER serve your fantasy. Begging for what you desire takes a careful and sincere approach. This is where you add GROVELING to your begging and acts of adoration. Remember that you need to get HER interested and EMPOWER her to want to take charge of the desires YOU have. I can only give you examples. Its up to you to learn how to be creative and find ways to do this properly.
There are lots of times my dominant partners serve my fantasies just as I serve theirs. I'm not much on subterfuge so I generally just share my fantasies and ask for what I want. Of course, a submissive must do this in the proper time and place. Most of my partners (who are intelligent, caring women) have straight out asked me what I like so it's not as though I need to force the issue. To me, this is part of the two-way nature of relationships. Unless both people are communicating and getting their needs met, it isn't likely the relationship will last.
Now let's get down to the actual begging and groveling mechanics you suggested. More than anything, this is the aspect of your post that somewhat threw me. As follows:
quote:
"You are magnificent my Queen."
"I am the luckiest slave in the world to have the privilege of touching your exquisite body."
"It is heaven to be allowed the privilege of worshiping your divine feet my Goddess."
(snip)
"My beautiful and divine Queen I beg for you to allow me to be your sissy maid so that I might clean your house and prepare a nice meal for you."
(snip)
"Goddess I am nothing but a speck of dust in your divine world. I beg for the chance to simply exist to please you at any capacity you see fit."
(snip)
"My beautiful Queen I have prepared your favorite beverage. Thank you for privilege of allowing me to do this for you my magnificence Queen."
(snip)
"Goddess this is sissy slut slave Priscilla begging to suck cock for you. I have on a pink teddy and white thigh high stockings. I also have a big dildo to practice with and beg you to teach me to be the best cock sucker in the world for my Queen."
(snip)
"My beautiful Queen this is your loser slave naked and on my knees begging to worship your divine ass."
I can honestly say that none of these approaches would work for me or any dominant partner I've ever had. These just reek of manipulation and topping from the bottom. Argh! I hate using the phrase "topping from the bottom" because this is one of the most overused and abused nomenclatures in BDSM, however, in this circumstance it is actually rather descriptive.
On a tangential note, none of my partners has ever wanted to be with a "loser" and I certainly do not consider myself this way. Rather, I'm an intelligent, kind, self-sufficient, passionate submissive who offers many things my domme values and vice versa. Perhaps this is why begging (and the entire "she: high Goddess, me: lowlife loser/worthless worm" dynamic) doesn't work for me. A domme who berates me this way immediately causes me to leave any submissive headspace I might be in. This is because I know my own value and someone who would say otherwise is wrong and therefore not to be trusted with my safety. Yes, I know it's role-play, but the untruth is so utterly ridiculous that I can't get past it. If a partner actually considered me worthless, I wouldn't give her the time of day nor would I expect her to spend time on me.
Slave Alyssium (who has a wonderful series on YouTube introducing the dynamics and psychology of BDSM) discussed her own, conflicted emotions about enjoying humiliation and degradation. As follows:
" If you are worthless to your partner, if they make you feel like you are a worthless piece of crap, just remember they are still there and that means you're worth the world to them. I've just now finally found my self worth. I struggle with letting someone tear it away, but at the same time it turns me on. As a sub, you are valued. You are worth so much. Even when you're being called a piece of shit and you're getting pissed on. *smile* "
There is great truth and insight in these words.
Getting back to begging, from time to time I moan and whimper inadvertently (out of need) during play or just while communicating. This seems to turn my partners on in unimaginable ways. I'm fairly sure it is because my response is involuntary. In one particular case the domme told me the turn-on was because she had consumed my mind and body with singularly focused affection, lust, emotion, and need for her. The whimpering was a natural, uncontrollable consequence of this fact. I've found eye contact (making and withdrawing) an incredibly powerful way to communicate while this is going on.
I'm one of those people who finds submission incredibly powerful. Thus, if there are acts of begging, whimpering, and groveling to be done, these only work for me when they play out to make us both feel powerful. Case in point. I once had a domme tell me to bark like a dog. After doing a double-take, I realized she was serious. It took me a while to summon up the courage and even then my first attempt was awful. Still, she gave me lots of positive, loving feedback and this helped me get into a puppy headspace. With her tenacity and thoughtful encouragement and my willingness to practice, I was soon barking with ease. This was extremely humiliating, but it was also very empowering. The fact that we accomplished this together was even more powerful for both of us. And here's the delicious part. At the time, had someone suggest puppy play to me, I would have thought them daft. The whole notion of puppy play was, at that time, foreign and unappealing to me. Perhaps I may yet learn how to actively beg while feeling good about it. :-)
Even though we don't agree on specific begging mechanics, as I said in the beginning, your ideas about submissives empowering their mistresses makes sense to me. I like to think of this as partner's empowering each other. To close, I'm going to borrow and modify a quote of yours, and add a few comments afterwards.
quote:
In order for me to get excited with a submissive man I must be able to feel empowered. First I am empowered by the control you relinquish to me. I am then further motivated and seduced by the artful way I can dissect you and further gain control. This is a dynamic that can only be achieved by two; one projects (me) and the other absorbs (you). If you are selfishly feeding me your needs I will quickly begin to lose interest, however if you seduce me (snip), then we can both soar into the femdom dynamic.
In my opinion, it is mutual seduction that provides much of the empowerment. Groveling and begging (which is the part I snipped out) is one such mechanism a submissive might use to flirt with and empower their dominant, but it is not the only mechanism. Indeed, if used in a manipulative way, I would expect begging to fall flat on its face. I don't believe that the dominant solely projects energy while the submissive solely absorbs energy. My experiences have been quite to the contrary. Often the submissive reflects back energy given by the domme and sometimes the submissive simply projects energy of their own. In other words, both partners initiate, project, and absorb energy.
When watching a BDSM scene from afar, it would be easy for a layperson to mistakenly conclude that the dominant does all the work while the submissive is a passive participant. Those involved in successful scenes, interactions, and relationships know that nothing is further from the truth. It really is a two-way dance in which both partners actively communicate, seduce, pamper, and empower each other. Thanks for posting Diana and thank you for causing me to think about this.
Elan.
Side note, this seems like an extremely useful exercise: :-)
quote:
Sit down and make a list of things you love that really pull you into the depths of submission. In another list write down the things that you believe will make a dominant woman happy. Really think about this. (snip) Now compare your list with mine or the list you created on what a dominant woman might want. Really study the two lists and see if you can somehow combine the needs and desires. What might you say or do so that she is getting what she needs and you get what you need?
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