RE: Tips on begging (Full Version)

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SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Tips on begging (1/3/2008 6:59:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

SlaveBlutarsky,

quote:

Ugh, I hate begging.  When I am in subspace, I'm completely retarded and cannot verbalize well.  I hate being asked questions because I have a hard time answering them, even if they are easy.  Having to think of something to say and then translate that into begging is just horrid to me.


I think perhaps the negotiation and begging occurs before getting to subspace.  When in subspace, I don't get completely retarded, but I am very giggly and my judgment is impaired.  At various stages while getting to and from subspace, I've had partners flirt and negotiate with me.  I quite like verbalizing during this transitioning.  Some of the things that come out of my mouth are amusing indeed.  True enough, I'm rather vulnerable in this state, but that's a delicious part of baring my soul before my partner.  I particularly like it when my domme is exhausted and needs me to give her aftercare.  Heh.  Aftercare is not only for submissives. :-)

Elan.
I wish it were that easy. I start to get loopy at the meer hint of submission or a woman is dominant. Even in negotiation and normal conversation with a Domme, I'm rarely able to verbalize properly or be myself. It's a mixture of subspace and insecurity of letting them down or looking foolish I think. Of course usually the Domme tries to make it easy on me by runningtheir hand through my hair or lightly grabbing my throat, things that really allow me to settle down and relax.
[sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif]




ShaktiSama -> RE: Tips on begging (1/3/2008 7:39:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued
When in subspace, I don't get completely retarded, but I am very giggly and my judgment is impaired. 


I met a man like this once.  Unfortunately I didn't really understand the response, having never seen it before.  It was a bad time to be looking for facial expressions to know how much punishment to ditch out on a newbie sub.  He ended up looking like he'd been mauled by a lion the next day, but through the whole scene he was grinning like he'd just won a tour of the Wonka Chocolate Factory...  [:D]




AAkasha -> RE: Reply to DiannaVesta. (1/3/2008 7:51:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued


In my opinion, it is mutual seduction that provides much of the empowerment.  Groveling and begging (which is the part I snipped out) is one such mechanism a submissive might use to flirt with and empower their dominant, but it is not the only mechanism.  Indeed, if used in a manipulative way, I would expect begging to fall flat on its face.  I don't believe that the dominant solely projects energy while the submissive solely absorbs energy.  My experiences have been quite to the contrary.  Often the submissive reflects back energy given by the domme and sometimes the submissive simply projects energy of their own.  In other words, both partners initiate, project, and absorb energy.


Elan.



This is an extremely insightful point and one that I wish could be somehow really explained in a very concrete way so people could understand it. It's probably the single biggest obsctale/hurdle to face once actually in a power exchange moment with someone.  Sometimes no matter how much lust or chemstiry there is, it cannot be salvaged, because the submissive is not at all aware of his "energy" and/or does not care about it anyway.  I had dominated (casually, mind you, I was very young) a handful of boyfriends by the time I met one guy who, for the first time, got into my head and soul and rattled me to the core, because he was absolutely intent on getting me to react to his submission - essentially, to react to his reactions. He paid close attention, he read my body language and got into my head, and used to be so *proactive* even in the most helpless, vulnerable situations. Sometimes it would become almost like a battle for power, because the more helpless I made him feel, the more he could turn it around and make me feel so *femdom woozy* (no better term to explain it).  The other side of the scale is a submissive that just receives energy and responds to commands or orders, with no real sense of what energy is happening on the femdom side, or what she's needing. 

When I dominate a man, in that moment, I have a need.  The pure actions of doing the "acts" does not satisfy that need. It's far deeper than that.  And it varies. It might be that I need to feel he is authentically vulnerable. It might be that I need to feel sadistic to the point of sweet guilt about it.  It might be that I need to be aroused by him responding very sensually to helplessness.  It might be that I need to be pushed to face my own limits/fears about what I am capable of, or what *turns me on* (this can be a huge and lovely mindfuck and I've only gotten to that place a few times in my life).  A really intuitive man can just get into my head and turn me inside out -- all while being totally helpless, and often, terrified.  To me, nothing is hotter.

And you look at all that above, what I wrote, and there's no way a "worthless worm" or a man with no self respect could accomplish this; yet, a man who is *whimpering* could.  That's the beauty of the paradox.

Akasha




ElanSubdued -> RE: Tips on begging (1/3/2008 8:01:32 PM)

Blutarsky,

quote:

I wish it were that easy.  I start to get loopy at the mere hint of submission or a woman is dominant.  Even in negotiation and normal conversation with a Domme, I'm rarely able to verbalize properly or be myself.  It's a mixture of subspace and insecurity of letting them down or looking foolish I think.  Of course usually the Domme tries to make it easy on me by running their hand through my hair or lightly grabbing my throat, things that really allow me to settle down and relax.


Whoa!  That would indeed be a problem!  I think the main thing to remember is that dominant women are just people (with all the same quirks, insecurities, and vulnerabilities as anyone else).  Quite a while ago, I used to get the jitters around dominant women.  Two things changed this.  First, I got some experience as a dominant myself.  This helped put things into perspective and demystified dominants somewhat for me.  Second, I begun to realize that we kinksters build this stuff up way too much.  We're all just people looking to share companionship.  Courting a dominant woman isn't much different from romancing a vanilla woman.  Now I realize there are people who will disagree with me, but in my opinion it isn't usually the kinky things that catch a dominant woman's attention.  Rather, it's the personal, thoughtful things you do that communicate affection and show your kindness and intelligence.

These days, during an introduction, I just try to be myself and share interesting conversation and laughter.  Laughter is a soothing, holy spirit.  I'm amazed how at ease sharing a smile makes two people feel.  Also, if I can say this humbly, recognizing my own value as a person has given me much greater confidence.  Some of this came from self analysis and some of it came from dating dominant women who found me attractive.  I've also actively rejected partners who were not compatible with what I'm looking for.  All of these things combined to give me a much greater sense of who I am and what I have to offer.  Some dominants will find me attractive, others will be indifferent, and some will not find me attractive at all.  This is very much a two-way street.  I choose my partners just as much as they choose me.

I realize you didn't ask for advice, but truly you don't need to lose your equilibrium simply because a dominant woman sits down beside you.  You're an intelligent man who has lots to offer.  Sure, there are a few, subtle things you can do to recognize a domme and demonstrate, courteously, your interest as a submissive.  (These will be different for each woman and I'm sure you can figure them out as you go.)  For the most part however, when you meet a domme for the first time, I advise you to forget she is kinky and simply enjoy her as a person.  Some dommes find it cute when a submissive is nervous, but in general, women, like men, enjoy a reasonable degree of confidence in their partners.  Just be your charming, incredibly literate self (which I know you are because I've read your posts).  A domme will let you know if and when she wants to up the ante into BDSM territory.  And when a domme does decide to move into BDSM with you (in conversation and/or in physical touch), take this as a compliment which will help build your confidence and comfort level.

Yeah, it's BDSM, but it's still supposed to be fun.  Just relax and don't worry so much about what your would-be domme is thinking.  Chances are, if you're personable, you'll find out soon enough what is on her mind because she'll tell you. :-)

Elan.




MissA -> RE: Tips on begging (1/3/2008 9:31:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

While it's not begging *per se*, I often recommend thats subs take an educational look at Elijah Wood in the Lord of the Rings movies. He has cornered the market on the *look* that tends to scream vulnerability. He also does this great thing with the way he breathes, where sometimes he sounds like he's holding back a whimper half the time.  I've never seen such a thing -- I could watch that silly hobbit all day long doing that look.

Akasha



Mmm, I agree. I've always had a things for that boy and I'd love to see him over my knee...

Miss A




ElanSubdued -> RE: Tips on begging (1/4/2008 12:12:40 AM)

ShaktiSamam,

quote:

ElanSubdued:
When in subspace, I don't get completely retarded, but I am very giggly and my judgment is impaired.

ShaktiSamam:
I met a man like this once.  Unfortunately I didn't really understand the response, having never seen it before.  It was a bad time to be looking for facial expressions to know how much punishment to ditch out on a newbie sub.  He ended up looking like he'd been mauled by a lion the next day, but through the whole scene he was grinning like he'd just won a tour of the Wonka Chocolate Factory...


*wonders if you have any more of the infamous, Wonka, golden tickets* [;)]

Elan.




ShaktiSama -> RE: Tips on begging (1/4/2008 12:42:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued
*wonders if you have any more of the infamous, Wonka, golden tickets* [;)]

Elan.


We "lifestyle" dommes have been known to keep an extra can of whupass on the shelf for company.  [;)]




ElanSubdued -> Reply to Akasha. (1/4/2008 1:45:42 AM)

Akasha,

quote:

This is an extremely insightful point and one that I wish could be somehow really explained in a very concrete way so people could understand it.  It's probably the single biggest obstacle/hurdle to face once actually in a power exchange moment with someone.  Sometimes no matter how much lust or chemistry there is, it cannot be salvaged, because the submissive is not at all aware of his "energy" and/or does not care about it anyway.


Thanks for noticing my post.  With these and your subsequent comments, it's clear you understood exactly what I was trying to say.  Of all the things I've learned as a submissive, discovering the need to get inside my domme's head, to flirt with her and seduce her, to make her feel safe and comfortable, to discover what she needs in the moment, to reduce her to quivering, needy, sexually infused flesh while building up her power over me and her desire for me, to dance with her in a balance of mutual trust and power... this has been the hardest, least obvious lesson.  And realistically, you'd think this would be the most obvious thing to do.  So much of the well intended, but non-the-less protocol-infused stuff I read early on was entirely misleading.  And often we're our own worst enemies.  Some of my early relationships taught me difficult lessons and patterns that I later had to unlearn.

Over the last few years I've really enjoyed discovering my power as a submissive - watching my partners, learning, proactively communicating.  At one point, it was quite a shock to find that sometimes the most submissive thing one can do is to be rather assertive and not very subservient at all.  In an instant I can massage power and give it to my partner in most delightful ways.  And what an amazing experience it is to feel my partner immediately give this power back with a look of desire and affection in her eyes.

Thank you for giving us all such a deliciously luxurious, utterly gorgeous view of your psyche and of the power balance between dominant and submissive partners.  When I first read your post, I thought:  shit-damn, that's some of the best word sex I've had the pleasure of reading in a very long time.  I've read your thoughts a few more times now and they just get better each time.

What the heck.  This is so good it really does bare repeating:

quote:

I had dominated (casually, mind you, I was very young) a handful of boyfriends by the time I met one guy who, for the first time, got into my head and soul and rattled me to the core, because he was absolutely intent on getting me to react to his submission - essentially, to react to his reactions.  He paid close attention, he read my body language and got into my head, and used to be so *proactive* even in the most helpless, vulnerable situations.  Sometimes it would become almost like a battle for power, because the more helpless I made him feel, the more he could turn it around and make me feel so *femdom woozy* (no better term to explain it).

When I dominate a man, in that moment, I have a need.  The pure actions of doing the "acts" does not satisfy that need. It's far deeper than that.  And it varies.  It might be that I need to feel he is authentically vulnerable.  It might be that I need to feel sadistic to the point of sweet guilt about it.  It might be that I need to be aroused by him responding very sensually to helplessness.  It might be that I need to be pushed to face my own limits/fears about what I am capable of, or what *turns me on* (this can be a huge and lovely mindfuck and I've only gotten to that place a few times in my life).  A really intuitive man can just get into my head and turn me inside out -- all while being totally helpless, and often, terrified.  To me, nothing is hotter.

And you look at all that above, what I wrote, and there's no way a "worthless worm" or a man with no self respect could accomplish this; yet, a man who is *whimpering* could.  That's the beauty of the paradox.





Oumae -> RE: Reply to Akasha. (1/4/2008 4:14:53 AM)

What the two of you have written about is fantastic, I've experienced it a couple of times and that mutual inspiration of dominance from one and submission from the other can lead to some very heady heights or fem dom woozy as Aakasha called it.

On the begging... the worthless worm stuff does nothing for me, I want a man who is worthy of me. While I do enjoy making a man beg verbally be it as warm up, humiliation or to free inhibitions the begging that really gets to me is that often silent type that their body does almost involuntarily.

Oumae




MistressRouge -> RE: Reply to Akasha. (1/4/2008 5:43:08 AM)

I cannot stand begging in any shape or form, pleading however is different matter [:D]




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