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RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 8:48:56 AM   
RoughFN


Posts: 197
Joined: 7/26/2006
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quote:

You've just totaly contradicted yourself by saying wait for her, then saying if she don't bring it up in a few weeks you do it, and then if she's not ready dump her she never will be ready.


I disagree.

I firmly feel that it's appropriate to move slowly and make sure that she's comfortable before you try to jump into things. Slide into it gradually, don't go straight from casually chatting to barking orders. But figure out a pace that works for her, and you.

On the flip side, there are a lot of people around that are nothing more than game players. They say that they want to submit totally and utterly and are ready to give themselves up, but when pressed into conversation they never actually even want to discuss the matter, let alone act anything out. And after some period of time, you have to broach the subject if it's been consistently brushed off. Fish or cut bait.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 8:49:22 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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I've been told byno amount of code wording isallowed. not ums not sproglings not little aliens not things nothing, You're still not supposed to referance or talk about kids on the site. IT's just not policed very well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Some excellent advise for you already; however:
     for calling her children 'unmentionables', you need to be paddled.


Dah, go read the tos, unmentionables or ums is the correct phrase to use on this site.
Maybe you need to be paddled.


(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 8:50:42 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Well I can tell you that some words are much easier to get away with than others.

_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 8:51:33 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
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Has nothing to do with being politically correct.  It is expressly prohibited (for obvious reasons) to mention that particular demographic by name.. So yes, people started using the nickname um, (which does stand for unmentionable so I'm not sure why Tantriqu took offense to that)..

< Message edited by BossyShoeBitch -- 1/5/2008 9:08:21 AM >


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A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 8:53:08 AM   
KatyLied


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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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I'm not the one who took offense to it.  It was the person I responded to who took offense to it.  I was trying to point out that it was appropriate and not demeaning.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 9:01:24 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
To the OP:
I believe that you asked for too much too quickly, knowing she was talking with someone else and clearly not ready to be submissive to either of you. If, on the off chance, you get into a situation like that again you might want to start with something far simpler. Begin conversations with a particular and unique greeting to you. That is a very subtle dominance, and it sets the pace. If they are willing to go alone, you know where you stand.  If they are not, you know they are not yet feeling submissive to you. Online, becoming the dominant force is very very difficult, becasue there is little to no REAL consequence for not complying. Next time, take longer to get to know the person, and dont worry about your relationship getting casual. You cannot control someone you do not know.

And to everyone else who isnt sure what the heck is going on with the UM term, its used because so many peple with families find it nearly impossible to have conversations without them coming up. UM is used to refer to the entire family NOT me, for instance, generation above as well as generation below sometimes. ITs a dodge around the TOS to keep the flow of conversation manageable, not to be demeaning or hurtful to those who it refers to.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 9:10:54 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I'm not the one who took offense to it.  It was the person I responded to who took offense to it.  I was trying to point out that it was appropriate and not demeaning.

Oops.. Sorry about that KatyLied.  I corrected my post to reflect the correct name.  That'll teach me to pay more attention!

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 9:11:12 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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You essential said wait for her to be ready, then if she says no she's not and you don't believe the reason is valid dump her. Like I said for me, if someone tried to start telling me what to do only after a matter of weeks of talking I'd refuse. I don't consider them to have earned my submission, or shown me it's wise to give it in a matter of a few weeks. In fact for me it'd show me he wasn't someone I'd consider submitting to at all cause he was hasty and impatient.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RoughFN

quote:

You've just totaly contradicted yourself by saying wait for her, then saying if she don't bring it up in a few weeks you do it, and then if she's not ready dump her she never will be ready.


I disagree.



< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 1/5/2008 9:14:08 AM >

(in reply to RoughFN)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 9:21:41 AM   
RoughFN


Posts: 197
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You essential said wait for her to be ready, then if she says no she's not and you don't believe the reason is valid dump her. Like I said for me, if someone tried to start telling me what to do only after a matter of weeks of talking I'd refuse. I don't consider them to have earned my submission, in a matter of a few weeks.


There's a difference between rushing in after a few days or less of mild conversation and waiting several weeks or months and then asking what's going on and acting appropriately.

If there is absolutely no motion in any regards after a "long" time (for whatever definition of "long" you care to use), then I'll have to assume that the person is just goofing around or otherwise not interested.

So I'm curious...how long does it take for you? Months? Years? Are you really completely opposed to trying anything until such a long period of time has passed?

I mean, I suppose it's not unreasonable. Certainly there are people that go years and years in a serious relationship before doing anything sexual, let alone bdsm oriented, but it's still a red flag for me where I'd have to doubt their sincerity.

But, it also must depend upon the earlier discussions. If somebody came into it saying they're going to wait months and months before even considering something, then that's one thing and they are being reasonable (just not for me). I came at it from the perspective of the subs that claim that they want to go all out and submit and bow down and whatnot and then proceed to dink around forever for no good reason.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 9:44:36 AM   
LadyHugs


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Dear DiosDeEsclavas, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In reading your original post (OP); there really are a few things that jump out to me and are worth mentioning.
 
1.   On line relationships are subjected to the whims of the Internet connection and the time a person chooses to be on line.  What happens when they are not on line--is left to the great 'unknown' and justified and or not; excuses for not being on line.  It is called 'real life.'
Who is to say, she needed more funds to send the letter in the mail, car broke down, this or that. 
 
2.    You have mentioned and admitted, that you are not her Dominant.  This to me, means that you have no rights, claims and or someone who must/shall/will/would/could 'obey you.'  To believe you are her Dominant and you know she is communicating with a local Dominant--she is a free agent and not obligated to obey either one of you until she makes a real commitment.
 
3.    Promises.  How many times do we see our elected officials break promises?  Sometimes there are justified reasons--sometimes there are no justified reasons at all.  Although a person is judged on the promises they keep; the judgement is on character and since you are far apart physically--there is really no 'enforcement' if there is a choice to ignore your created punishment..  Yes--you can say how disappointed you were, how the promises are kept are a measure/standard to judge character with however, you are not her Daddy, her Owner, her Dominant and or Master.  It would be no different having some stranger fuss at someone for something they didn't do or promised to do.  A person who doesn't get 'punished' per se; especially when not my collared slave/submissive.  I dismiss consideration entirely --unless they have real excuses.  Again, judging character.  If habitual --there is more to it than meets the eyes and I walk on and away from an unreliable character.
 
4.    To me, a mother is 'enslaved' to the welfare of her children.  Real life again.  There might have been issues with the child, such as an illness and or a need to take a child to the hospital and or doctor.  PC could have died, etc.  Again -- real life takes priority--even in this lifestyle.
 
You asked about fundimental flaws -- The flaw is, that the title/role of Dominant is not an immediate 'entitlement' and or 'exclusive' authority over another, especially a slave and or submissive.  They will actively petition you if they are interested in you--to be their Dominant.
Another, is not setting boundaries of your behavior and the submissive's also.  This is a 'get to know you' series of interactions.  Communication is paramount to any successful interaction.
When a person is not another person's Dominant -- you really are powerless.  Respect is earned and easily removed/lost.  The fact a Dominant is eager to punish instead of talking to a submissive like a mature adullt with obligations to others, e.g. children, husband, boyfriend, others, etc.; feels to me more like a domineering man rather than a Dominant who is a good supporter, advisor, guide, teacher, leader, listener and compassionate.
 
Patience is a Dominant's best teacher and tool.  One has to have it before interacting with others.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to DiosDeEsclavas)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 9:50:34 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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It's diffrent from person to person, with my first ever dom I agreed to submit to him the very first day after talking to him online and him saying he was looking for a sub would I like to try being his sub, course that was online only * We eventually wanted to do real time and worked towards it he just didn't have any time to manage more than online.*and I was extreamly new and had no clue what I was doing. I am lucky it worked out as well as it did.

A month of getting to know you learn about their style of domination their idea's and if they match mine and what I want from the relationship is good .LEarning about my quirks and his quirks, what's intolerable to him and what's intolerable to me, such as loud agressive noise I can't get away from* IE playing yur hard rock music for 2 hours while we're stuck in a car and do you think me saying it registeres as painful irritating noise is trying to insult the music or is just honestly truthfully how it is for me* Hanging out in regular circumstances and then maybe if we mesh well on all fields or most of them, I'd be more open to requests and stuff . The more chemistry I feel and the better we mesh the quicker things tend to go.

Noiw THAT I do agree on. Do not say you're ready to hand it all over lets do this yes I am eager I am ready then balk at any hint of him taking you up on your word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoughFN


There's a difference between rushing in after a few days or less of mild conversation and waiting several weeks or months and then asking what's going on and acting appropriately.



So I'm curious...how long does it take for you? Months? Years? Are you really completely opposed to trying anything until such a long period of time has passed?

I came at it from the perspective of the subs that claim that they want to go all out and submit and bow down and whatnot and then proceed to dink around forever for no good reason.


< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 1/5/2008 10:10:35 AM >

(in reply to RoughFN)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 9:53:47 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
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okay i see now, i misinterpreted the situation...i wasn't viewing it from the right perspective.  now, it makes perfect sense to me.

< Message edited by christine1 -- 1/5/2008 9:54:31 AM >

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 11:50:14 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiosDeEsclavas

Here is the situation:  Early this past week I started talking to a potential sub from another site online. 


Early this week as in Monday or Tuesday?


quote:

This is a new experience for her.  Things seemed to be going well, but hard to tell and I could only talk to her while I was at work so I couldn't give her 100% of the attention I would have liked. 


If you can't commit to even consistant online, maybe you should hold off on trying until you're in a situation where you can put more of yourself into building a relationship. Just a thought.

quote:

Thursday I felt the need to start to Dominate, both because of my need and I didn't want our relationship to become casual. 


I hate to be the one to tell you this, but.. you don't have a relationship with her yet. You don't even know her. Best to exhibit a little self-control and save the big guns for later on when you know with whom you are dealing.

quote:

 My request, and it was stated as a request because I am not yet her Dom, was her her to write me an email once a day telling me what she did, what she will do, and how she feels. 


So, you want to know what she did.. which indicates to me you'd like that email at the end of the day otherwise all of what she did will consist of waking up in the morning. I'd suggest you be exact and set up clear and concise instruction to a potential (when both parties are ready for that sort of thing without feeling the pressure to 'have' to say yes.) Later on in this post, I'll get to 'why' I think that's important.

quote:

 She felt a concern over this because she is talking to another more local Dom (I know this already) and did not know what she would choose but felt her choice would be harder if she started the submission process.  We had a long conversation about this and at the end seem to clearly understand each other.  I praised her for opening up to me, told her I didn't expect the letter, but would appreciate it.  At this point she promised to send it and we said goodbye.


And this was on Thursday according to your OP. According to your profile you are in Thailand so it was somewhere around 6 PM Saturday local time to you when you made your post. That's the wee hours of the morning here in the States. You didn't say, but if the girl in question is in the US you need to cut some slack for the time difference and realize that while you're wide eyed and bushy-tailed and probably have been for several hours, more than likely, especially with kids, she's been sleeping during that time.

quote:

Now my feeling is, I may not be her Dom, but if she promises something I should be able to expect that promise fulfilled is if I were her Dom in that particular thing.


Well, you need to get rid of that feeling. She may have promised you something, but to expect her to fulfill it because you think you're her dominant in that particular area is stretching. She has to think you're her dominant in that area .. or you're not.

quote:

Of course if she had sent the letter I wouldn't be posting now.  There were a string of problems and excuses and after 2 days a letter arrived. 


I'm not getting the timing here. You asked her for the letter on Thursday. She didn't send the letter until (today?). That means, at most, she didn't send the letter one day .. Friday. Today is only Saturday and your OP was written in the wee hours (US time) of the morning. Are you sure you didn't actually get the letter on Friday which would have been fulfilling her promise? But wait, you said if she had sent the letter, you wouldn't be posting.. but then you said she did send the letter, but sent it late.

I'm confused. If she sent it and you already responded to it, then you had to have gotten it before you made the initial post.. again, wee morning hours here in the US. I guess I need to ask .. is she in Thailand and talking to a dominant more local than you .. or is she in the US (or some place else) which rather indicates anyone would be more local than you?

quote:

 Most of the problems were legitimate but I told her she did have a small punishment coming just to help her remember to do all in her power to fulfill her promises, which she didn't. 


I think you're trying to squeeze out some lemonade from a couple of oranges. It doesn't work that way. You're not her dominant. You have no right to instill a punishment on her to which she did not agree. You are not in a relationship with her and you've only known her for.. what, 4 or 5 days?

quote:

 She seemed to accept this and we were to begin our daily conversation after she put her unmentionables to bed, but she never returned.


Okay, now, for me this clearly indicates that she sent that letter no later than Friday. You only 'requested' the daily emails on Thursday. You received one the next day. She had to deal with the real life issues of being Mom and didn't return. Again, you wrote this in the wee hours of the morning on Saturday. Do you not expect her to sleep sometime? Don't you sleep?

Eh, too many questions and I probably shouldn't make assumptions, but this whole timing issue is nagging me. Are you a patient man?


quote:

So after all that my question is two fold. 1) In the unlikely event that she does return and accepts her punishment, what would an appropriate first corrective action be realizing that I am not officially her Dom?


She sent you a letter the day after you requested it. What, exactly, is she going to be punished for?? You had a long conversation on Thursday, got the letter the next day. What the hell? Was she supposed to send it first thing Friday morning or something?

quote:

 2) In the more likely event that it is better luck next time for the both of us, is there any fundamental flaw in the way I approach d the situation? Like being more aggressive sooner or being more patient?  Any typical signs that the sub is ready to be dominated?



I think your first flaw was taking on the hat of 'her' dominant (even in one area) when you're not.

I get the distinct impression that you're looking for some sort of validation to be able to punish her for a perceived transgression that I'm not convinced she made. Maybe she's not convinced she did anything wrong either and just thinks you're a bit too pushy.

The world may never know.

As for typical signs a submissive is ready to be dominated .. it's my experience that they'll usually give you a clear indication and you won't have to wonder about it at all. Your best bet is to be yourself and you'll attract the sort of submissives to you that your actions dictate. If you don't care for those submissives than work on improving yourself and being the sort of dominant who will attract the submissives you desire.

Good luck .. and work on that timing issue. Timing is everything!

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DiosDeEsclavas)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 12:03:43 PM   
ligar59


Posts: 55
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline
I guess I must be getting old or something, I believe the OP is putting the cart before the horse. It has always been my understanding, that until such time as the submissive accepts one's collar, the prospective Dom has no business trying to dominate or control her/him much less telling her she has a punishment comming??

(in reply to DiosDeEsclavas)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 12:33:23 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

How about "I'm disappointed that after I agreed it was too soon for this, you committed to it anyway and then didn't follow through. I was fully willing to let it slide until you promised to do it. Please don't make promises in the future if you aren't going to do all you can to keep them."


That would get a fast "block" from me.  You admitted you made a mistake, but then you passed the blame to me because I made the second mistake.  So that absolves you of the first mistake??  It would be far more noble/endearing/palatable/whatever if you simply said, "It was my mistake and I should not have asked it of you."

Cali


_____________________________

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(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 12:33:43 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
Fast reply to the OP-
I agree with most of the comments here, in that until the girl accepts your control, you really have no way of asking for anything- the submissive greenlights the process, not the Dominant.

But what you really need to do first, is decide what you want- an online cyber play partner? a real time occasional visit scening partner? or a real time, long term relationship with a submissive girlfriend/ wife?

This will define your approach- for people who enjoy online cyber play, you will see them move very very fast, since there really is not much physical risk involved; if you are looking for something offline, you need to pretty much follow the same rules of dating as vanilla people do- amiably chat, and grow slowly deeper and more intimate- weeks, not hours are called for here. And listen to what she is saying, spoken or not- when she says she is speaking to someone else, your already slim chances have become anorexic.

For all new Dominants, I think a good learning experience is to do this- create a female submissive profile, and write in simple innocuous comments- "I am looking for a nice guy for a long term relationship" that sort of thing; add a plain face pic of a girl, and make the whole profile completely unsexy, plain and vanilla...

Then check the next morning to see your pc freeze up under the groaning load of a thousand cock pics, bellowing "on yer knees bitch" commands, creepy lines from guys asking if you have a pre teen daughter, etc etc.....

The point is to learn that even as we male Doms chase after female submissives, they on their end are coping with being the wildebeest surrounded by packs of snarling lions, hyenas, and baboons.


(in reply to DiosDeEsclavas)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 3:00:21 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

so it's not politically correct to say children anymore?  i guess i'll go read the tos about it, but it seems a little absurd to me, but before i further comment, i'll go check it out.


In the present political climate talking about them on a sex site can get the site closed, and the owners and admins arrested. And that's why we are careful to use euphemisms including ums.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 3:41:36 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin
How about "I'm disappointed that after I agreed it was too soon for this, you committed to it anyway and then didn't follow through. I was fully willing to let it slide until you promised to do it. Please don't make promises in the future if you aren't going to do all you can to keep them."

That would get a fast "block" from me.  You admitted you made a mistake, but then you passed the blame to me because I made the second mistake.  So that absolves you of the first mistake??  It would be far more noble/endearing/palatable/whatever if you simply said, "It was my mistake and I should not have asked it of you."

Honestly, once I recognized it was a mistake I wouldn't have accepted the sub saying she'd do it anyway. However, once that was done, and I had admitted to and accepted responsibility for my mistake, she deserves to admit to and accept responsibility for her mistake as well.

I think you are taking this to mean "it's all your fault" when in my opinion it means "Yeah, I fucked up, but you fucked up too."


_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 4:27:28 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
~FR~

Can someone explain to me how, exactly, this girl would be deserving of any punishment even if he were her dom? He made his request on Thursday. Then, according to his posts, spoke to her again when she didn't write to him after two days. Which would mean he had to have spoken to her on Saturday. But he came back and said he did get a letter 'before' she was going to put the kids to bed which means she must have written to him on Friday, because who puts their kids to bed before 6 PM .. which.. um.. wasn't that the agreement? We talked Thursday, you write Friday? Then he comes back and says she should get a small punishment and, for the life of me, I can't figure out why? He had to have spoken to her a number of times for all those problems and excuses to be presented to him. He did get an email from her, so when the hell did that all take place if not on Friday since his post was actually written to the forum on Saturday?

Is it just me who thinks the whole time thing is just .. off?

I swear, I need a time line for this one, because I'm just not seeing something that, apparently, everyone else is getting.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: New Dom faux pas? - 1/5/2008 4:42:40 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
Celeste
I don't agree that she deserves any punishment at all, regardless, but I feel the most he could/should do is express disappointment.
I haven't played with the timestamps as you have, but I was taking the first post at face value which says "she said she would write and she didn't."

~E

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 40
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