ShaktiSama
Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I don't know how I feel about all of this. It's a much deeper issue and question. I would be interested to hear your perspective on whether or not it is appopriate (when it happens) for a man, on the other hand, to feel happy/excited/flattered when a woman would be masturbating while talking to him on the phone, if you completed switched the scenario. Not all men, but I would guess a lot more men than women would find this extremely exciting on one end, or at least "kind of flattering" on the other end - but "totally angry and disgusted" would be a little more rare.
Well, there is one small demographic group of men who can show you what the analogous male attitude would be. This would be gay men--specifically, the sort of handsome and well-built gay men that straight women often find attractive.
A great many exotic dancers for women are gay males, and there are also entertainers in other fields who need to court a female demographic to get ahead. Like beautiful women, these men learn the tricks necessary to bait and manipulate the group that keeps the gravy train rolling--but they have no desire to have sex with the vast majority of women who they have to provoke sexually as part of their professional lives.
Behind the scenes, these men are often virulently hateful toward women, and have feelings of fairly extreme loathing toward some of the women who exploit them. Even fairly ordinary gay men who are closeted or semi-closeted often have snide or hateful things to say about women who are too blatantly attracted to them. The things I heard gay male friends and acquaintances say about women when I was a teenager...*shudder* Yeah, kinda ruined the whole "gay boys = sexy" thing for me.
There are some rare cases when a straight man is so overloaded with sexual pressure from women that he simply cannot handle it emotionally, as well. I can think of a couple of specific examples, but generally I would suspect that this is the reason that some of the more popular American film stars live in other countries. If I was Johnny Depp, I think I would wake up every morning screaming "No! I don't want to see your pussy! Get away from me!"
quote:
Is it inappropriate, and unfair to women, to use sexuality to control men? (in your opinion). Is a woman who is being sexy and using her sexuality, because she knows men respond to it, wrong for using tools of seduction to motivate a man to give her what she wants (attention, sex, money, whatever her agenda)? Or, is it empowering? Keep in mind that 'using your sexuality" as a woman doesn't have to be extreme - I am also talking about very subtle things, even things a woman may do but not even be aware of, because it's part of the process of courting.
I think we'd all agree on one thing: life is not fair. And I think that all human beings use whatever tools are available to get their basic needs met and fulfill their desires and ambitions. Female sexuality is a powerful tool. And it can be a very effective tool, whether it is used as a lever, a lure or a weapon.
The issue about using female sexuality to meet various needs, especially non-sexual ones, is that our culture has only opened a very small window for the use of this force. The "Establishment" uses every possible means to limit the number of women who can use this power at all, the number of years a woman can use it effectively, and the number of targets that a woman can effect without harming herself socially. They also severely limit the other options that a woman can exercise in life while using this as her primary toolset.
The same can not be said of the standard ways that men exercise power in society. You will be severely hampered in life, for example, as a parent, a political figure, a scholar, or a participant in most religious communities if you use sex as your main tool to get your needs met in life. The same downsides do not apply to people who use MONEY to get their needs met in life! 
quote:
-- are we (women) wrong then to expect to exert any power of seduction or use their sexual desires as a tool for our own pleasure?
Using female sexuality to obtain sexual pleasure from men is not morally wrong; it is in fact what the power is designed to achieve. It can also be used to obtain other things, of course.
The only wrongs I see in using ANY available tool to meet your needs would the usual ethical questions--i.e., are you deliberately doing significant harm to others in ways that cannot be justified.
There is a more subtle issue, though, of how well served women are by relying on a certain kind of superficial sexual power to serve all ends. "Seduction" is a somewhat vague term, but in general the cold-blooded manipulation of male sexual desire really might not be the best way to achieve some goals, if what we want are lasting gains--in life and in relationships.
If women want power in life, I personally think they would be much better off breaking the barriers that keep them acquiring resources through hard work and education: education and the ability to work hard are not faculties that you lose because men no longer want to fuck you.
Ditto, if women want power or control in their relationships, it seems to me that they have to be careful about getting involved with men who "love" them for the wrong reasons. There are some serious flaws in the notion that a woman exercises any real "control" over a man through her appearance, for example. You can please the eye and win the favor of a man like this temporarily, if you have the right combination of physical assets--but when you get involved with a man who objectifies you, the romance will only last as long as your looks do.
A man who "loves" you as an object rather than a person will lose interest in you instantly when you no longer conform to his stereotype. You don't want to gain a few pounds, have a disfiguring accident, give birth to children or do something crazy like turn 35! 
Anyhoo...from my point of view, the upshot is that the best and smartest thing to use "sex appeal" to get--is sex! Preferably that same evening. With someone who's going to be sexually satisfying. That is really what sex appeal is designed to do, and how it functions best
If you want anything else, including love, you might want to have some other tools available.
_____________________________
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein
|
RE: Further thoughts on flattery vs. objectification - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread