RE: feelings of worthlessness (Full Version)

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pinkpleasures -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 3:29:51 AM)

quote:

I don't think that my former dom had any obligation to foster a sense of self-worth in me, but at the same time I am displeased that he took the time to enhance my feelings of worthlessness. It is not a good way to live, and I wish that more people in that situation could realize their way out of it.

haemayopoteis


your story made me sad.and proud..and angry...all sorts of feelings. In thr main, i am so pleased to hear you are happy now.

pink pleasures




haematopoiesis -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 4:17:46 AM)

It was a rather round-about way of answering.. but the question was not so simple. :)

Thank you though. I am very happy indeed these days.




lovingmaster45 -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 5:26:47 AM)

quote:

caitlyn, what it sounds like you may be feeling is in part normal for a woman your age, facing the challenges of life as a fresh face. If so, you must know intellectually you are not worthless...if this is how you feel, it is a misguided feeling which is clouding your thinking.


LMFAO

Trust me; caitlyn has no such feelings. If ever there were a self-assured person, it would be her.

I think you misread her post.




Faramir -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 6:20:31 AM)

I was disturbed by the general glib tone of the responses here, expressing a duality in submissives: healthy, "strong" submissives and the few, weak, broken ones who are subject to predation. The post from Merc and Beth was the best (worst) example:

quote:

There are some people who seek out the type of individual you describe. They do it because they lack self confidence. They don't feel they have what it take to dominate a strong individual. Weak people will always be prey for manipulative predator types. To call the predators "Doms" would be a disservice to the title.


What utter bullshit - submissives are either "strong" or "weak," - this models condemns anyone who faces questions of self-worth in response to their psycho-sexuality to being "weak." Bullshit. I utterly reject this glib, self-congratulatory and dissmissive model. Lemme tell you something: Strong, together submissives aren't bullet proof - they still can wrestle with doubt.

I've never met a submissive who didn't at some point wrestle with feelings of worthlessness and self-doubt over thier psycho-sexuality. In particular after very intense encounters, those feelings, even in submissives who generally accept their psycho-sexuality can well up. I think it is pretty understandable. When you look at yourself in the miror a few days later and say, "I had X, Y and Z done to me and I liked it - even asked for more. Why?" We are socialized to think that most BDSM activity is shameful, sick, even horrific. Beyond socialization, many submissives have a fundamentally conflicted state in their psycho-sexuality that cannot be "resolved" because it is the crux, the keystone: If you need to be "made" to do things, if you want edge or fear play, their is prima facia confliction. The whole point of that sort of psycho-sexuality is "I crave/fear X."

I hope younger, less experienced people in BDSM who read this thread will carefully consider the model presented by many of the earlier posters. By dividing submissives into a weak and strong pile (and who the fuck would ever classify themselves as weak prey - "Oh, weak little doormat - yea that's me."??) we create a false construct where the submissive who has understandable (perhaps even healthy?) self-doubt, and needs re-assurance of worth has to label themself a weakling.

I propose instead a model where submission and masochism can be expected to cause some level of confliction and self-doubt, and that it is not a sign of weakness to question, doubt, and seek assurance.




Fawne -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 7:10:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir



I've never met a submissive who didn't at some point wrestle with feelings of worthlessness and self-doubt over thier psycho-sexuality. In particular after very intense encounters, those feelings, even in submissives who generally accept their psycho-sexuality can well up. I think it is pretty understandable. When you look at yourself in the miror a few days later and say, "I had X, Y and Z done to me and I liked it - even asked for more. Why?" We are socialized to think that most BDSM activity is shameful, sick, even horrific. Beyond socialization, many submissives have a fundamentally conflicted state in their psycho-sexuality that cannot be "resolved" because it is the crux, the keystone: If you need to be "made" to do things, if you want edge or fear play, their is prima facia confliction. The whole point of that sort of psycho-sexuality is "I crave/fear X."



Bingo! I love/hate that feeling. The twist of emotions. anybody.. know that look? Eyes wide with both lust and fear? That connection is what I am getting out of these words. ? Thank you for that. Fascinating.. and clarifiying. (Please write a book someday :))




slavedesires -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 7:36:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thelight

as a psychology student, i learned that women who have experienced severe emotional trauma will sometimes develop feelings of worthlessness, and as a result, may seek out abusive relationships, in order to valdate their own feelings of worthlessness.

i can see some such women being attracted to this lifestyle. my question is, how a dom who encounters such a woman should respond.

by taking her on as a submissive, would he be furthing her psychological damage, or simply giving her what she wants?

also, if he decides to take her on, does he own her any obligation to assume a paternalistic role, and try to foster a sense of self-worth within her, or is it acceptable for him to play into her feelings of worthlessness, in order to make her more compliant?


OMG thelight...this is such an EXCELLENT question....will read responses and watch this thread
~~shy




Faramir -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 7:38:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne
Bingo! I love/hate that feeling. The twist of emotions. anybody.. know that look?


Umm...it's what I specialize in [:D]


Fawne, I've been collecting material for my "Big Book of D/s" for two years. The best stuff I have is from submissive women who are insightful and articulate - in correspondence over the years, on occaision one will write something electrifyingly true and clear. I remember a girl at b.com trying to articulate how she felt when her Dom raped her ass, hurt and cored her without hesition. "I feel," she told me, "I feel incandescent when I am used without regard for how it hurts."

I just nodded - that's it, you know? Someone nailed it in words. So yea, when I have enough material I am going to write a D/s book.

Chapter 4 is "Slaping the Cunt Out of Her" [;)]




lonewolf05 -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 8:38:05 AM)

quote:

I've never met a submissive who didn't at some point wrestle with feelings of worthlessness and self-doubt over thier psycho-sexuality.

Faramir
==========
never met one? ya JUST did. hello. i ain't had one darn moment "I" ever questioned MY sexuality. i know i feel female inside, but i am born male,,so i know where AND what my sexuality is. i am not able to do-anything-about-it, but that is non relevant. i never have questioned it, i accepted it many decades ago before i even knew what being an adult was. i was taught realism as a young child. no b.s. in life. maybe y'all had that nonsense over the easter bunny but in my dad's house it was not allowed.
y'all had that santa claus crap? nu uh jackson. ole pa seen to it i knew upfront it was a hoax. no no no.
i have never had to doubt or question anything about myself........maybe y'all did or have,,,,,,,,not this lil gray duck.
i know what life is all about. i became a man at 10 yrs old when ole pa threw out everything i owned and told me play toys are over..time to grow up boy..and he didn't say leroy..he said boy...grow up or else...he ain't gonna wipe my nose OR powder my butt anymore.....

wolfie.......scratching the ground......tail fur up
pads away




LadyAngelika -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 9:06:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

quote:

I've never met a submissive who didn't at some point wrestle with feelings of worthlessness and self-doubt over thier psycho-sexuality.

Faramir
==========
i have never had to doubt or question anything about myself........maybe y'all did or have,,,,,,,,not this lil gray duck.

You could have never figured out who and what you are if you hadn't grappled with the elements that you are. Plain and simple. Unless you've had a lobotomy, I refuse to believe that you never struggled with your identity.

For the record, no one can claim to be something and not have struggled with it. Struggling doesn't mean hours or days of crying and psychology sessions. Struggling simply means questionning who we are and why were are the way we are.

I agree with Faramir (stop the presses!) that this isn't a black or white issue. As I mentioned in my earlier post, it's all about finding the right balance in a partnership. Some girls need a daddy and some men need a little girl. Who the hell am I to judge that dynamic. I personally am not into it but that doesn't make it wrong.

Now with the boys I've encountered, most of them have unresolved issues with their mothers. As their partners, I might have had an influence on their relationship with female authority figures, but that was never the basis of my relationship with them. That is my choice.

We enter into partnerships, D/s and others, because we are looking to have some needs fulfilled. And that is fine. I think the danger is when we think that a) someone is going to fix us without us having to work for it or b) that this one person can meet all our needs. Otherwise, why not explore our issues with our partners as long as we are aware of our process.

- LA




NakedOnMyChain -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 9:13:57 AM)

I, personally, don't feel it's an anyone's best interests to play on an emotionally vulnerable subs weaknesses. That can be detrimental at best, and devestating at worst. However, once again in my opinion, it would be alright for a dom/me to take on a semi-parental role to bolster her sagging ego, as long as they don't get so caught up in it that they can't let the sub have a life of her own. And I think that in some cases, play would hurt a sub that has encountered a tragedy, and in some it wouldn't. The results are highly individual.




Amaros -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 9:31:08 AM)

It cuts both ways: being "dominant" means one requires somebody to be submissive - I suspect a certain percentage of Doms of both sexes are into dominence in order to deal with their own inadequacy issues - truth is, nobodies perfect, we're all inadequate in soem way, you just have to learn to deal with your inadequacies.

For myself, I think my inadequacy is co-dependence: a slave with chronic inadequacy issues would be right up my alley, I'd never give up trying to "fix" her or make her feel better - but I have to recognize that this is my problem, not hers, and not blame her or take it out on her if I fail. People change pretty much according to their own schedules regardless of what anybody else does. My choice to get involved, and I have to have the self dicipline to recognize it and deal with it - which would include the possibility of her outgrowing my dependency.

All human relationships involve some sort of mutual dependency, you're just kidding yourself if you're trying to use BDSM to try and escape it - go with the fantasy, just recognize that it has limits and responsibilities for both that will have to be encountered and resolved eventually.




LadyAngelika -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:04:30 AM)

quote:

All human relationships involve some sort of mutual dependency, you're just kidding yourself if you're trying to use BDSM to try and escape it - go with the fantasy, just recognize that it has limits and responsibilities for both that will have to be encountered and resolved eventually.


I'd just like to highlight this passage. It hits the nail on the head.

- LA




Faramir -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:11:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

never met one? ya JUST did. hello. i ain't had one darn moment "I" ever questioned MY sexuality. pads away



Great - I'll pass on to Erik Eriksson that you managed to skip adolescence and the attendent "Who Am I?" questions the rest of the race go through in determining identity (jcluding sexual identity).

However, unlike you, most everyone else goes through a process of self-exploration and questioning, and so your singular experience, while valid, may not be as useful in a broader discussion.




MsIncognito -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:13:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir
Chapter 4 is "Slaping the Cunt Out of Her" [;)]


I remember that thread clearly, the OP specifically. I actually copied it into Word and saved it.




lonewolf05 -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:37:00 AM)

LadyAngelika
I agree with Faramir (stop the presses!) that this isn't a black or white issue.
=====
You can agree with whomever You wish to. but "I"........DO..........see it as black n white! my LIFE is black n white in MY head. it is from my o.c.d.
so if YOU or anyone else has an issue with the FACT! that "I" never had to worry coz i know what life is about from an early age, then it IS indeed YOUR issue, coz "I" know what i am talking about in MY life. i drive every head shrink crazy coz i have answers to questions THEY didnt even ask yet and i have-to present it to em in the session..and they sit there stunned...

wolfie

y'all have a good day, even if ya DO hate me.







lonewolf05 -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:39:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir


quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

never met one? ya JUST did. hello. i ain't had one darn moment "I" ever questioned MY sexuality. pads away



Great - I'll pass on to Erik Eriksson that you managed to skip adolescence and the attendent "Who Am I?" questions the rest of the race go through in determining identity (jcluding sexual identity).

However, unlike you, most everyone else goes through a process of self-exploration and questioning, and so your singular experience, while valid, may not be as useful in a broader discussion.


who or what is a eric eriksson?
although YOU don't care a rat's butt, just for topic? "I" am the one growing up asking teachers questions THEY can't answer.........so i KNOW darn well what i am talking about. "I" was taught base reality as a child. NO fantasy life was allowed.

wolf




lonewolf05 -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:44:07 AM)

Amaros

All human relationships involve some sort of mutual dependency
============
????????? say what? uh, helllll nooooo!

i was taught early early on as a kid,,,,,,,,,,TOTAL independance, as an only child.

sorry chief but this lil gray duck never fit the-norm. it's why so many on the net hate me coz i am not part of the small minded sheep.

i am THE WOLF........i walk to my own beat,......i have my own separate path in life.......i am anti conformist.

wolf




LadyAngelika -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:47:41 AM)

The mere fact that you can make such statements as “*I* know what i am talking about in MY life” is an indication that you have reflected on you existence. The simple fact that you’ve seen a shrink (as you call them) is indication that you have had issues you have struggled with.

Stop being overly dramatic and contrary. Nobody here knows you well enough to love or hate you.

- LA




LadyAngelika -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 10:50:02 AM)

quote:

who or what is a eric eriksson?


Erikson's Eight Stages of Human Development.

- LA




Faramir -> RE: feelings of worthlessness (8/26/2005 11:27:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

i was taught early early on as a kid,,,,,,,,,,TOTAL independance, as an only child.




Total independence, huh?

Oh look - an online fantasy!!




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