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Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 3:14:31 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		::scroll to the bold to get to the meat of the question - you have been warned!::

So, I'm having this conversation with Himself last night and he makes a comment about me not being able to go without sex and play without going a little nuts. I reminded him that I had a single orgasm in the three years I lived with Master A and had no ill effects from the lack of sex.

Okay, he gave me a point for the sex comment and agreed, I could probably go without sex as long as the play was still there. Then I pointed out that I had zero (bottom) play for over a year with P (I've spoken of him before.. the straight dom turned gay sub guy) and I did have some ill effects from that, but mostly in terms of resentment and frustration over being manipulated and used as a fleshy flogger so he could get his cravings for pain and submission fed.


As I thought more about his comment though, it dawned on me that, contrary to the Hamlet's opinion, the play (okay, a different kind of play, but work with me here), is not the thing for me. It's the power. Oftentimes that power manifests itself in the form of play, but not always. Without play, without sex .. when it's all about power, it's just as satisfying (sometimes moreso) than when sex and play are actually involved. It's feeds me just as well and fills me just as much.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to start testing any theory's or anything nor go straight up M/s with no S/m before I absolutely have to, but the more I think about it, the more I believe it's not going to be the issue that Himself thinks it will be for me.

He calls me obsessive with BDSM. I like to think of it as .. enthusiastic.  As enthusiastic as I am about it though, at this point in life it means very little compared to the power which manifests in our day to day relationship.

Now, I could be wrong, but I know myself pretty well. I find myself rather interesting as a person, so made it a point to find out about me. I do that sorta thing when a subject interests me. ::laughs::

So, I've often heard it said that a Master knows the submissive better than the submissive knows themselves.
 
I have to wonder .. how much truth is there in that or.. is it just a myth? If a myth, what's the purpose of perpetuating such a thing other than to satisfy an ego? Masters, do you think you know your submissive better than they know themselves? Submissives, does your Master know you better than you know yourself? Do you think the length of your involvement with BDSM and/or M/s has an impact on this knowledge of your partner and/or yourself?
 
Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 1/10/2008 3:15:29 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 3:20:22 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I don't know 100%  the answer to that Celeste, but I will guess that Darcy knows me as well as I do, and is just more able to tell me things about myself that I might not wish to admit to or say about myself.  He can pick out that which you might not see unless I look in the mirror.  And I think that kinda rocks when he can do that.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 3:30:48 AM   
MRandme


Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline 		On the one hand, my Master and i are still learning about each other. We havent really known each other that long and are still getting to know each other as people. Our conversations range from politics to religion, kid and exes to work, pretty much every topic is open for discussion but i don't think He can see inside my head yet.

However...

when it comes to play, i am still pretty green and alot of what we do is a new experience for me. Time and time again, He will do something that turns out to be exactly what i need/want at that particular moment -- even when i wasn't sure what it was that i needed/wanted. For example, after play we were cuddling, which usually leads to a nap. He clipped my ankle cuffs together and my wrist cuffs. It nearly made me cry because it really was what i needed at that point even though i didn't realize it. It was the perfect touch. This could be His own experience with slaves/subs and their natures, it could be that He just really does know me well. Dunno.

Not a definite answer, i know.

g


_____________________________

And thus i conclude with a wish you go well,
Sweet be your dreams, may your happiness swell,
I'll leave you here, for my journey begins
i've gone to be with Him again...

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 3:42:48 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		For me, I don't think there's any truth in it.  The idea that anyone could ever know me even as well as I know myself, I find to be ludicrous.  A dominant would have to be in my head as much as I am, for at least as long as I have been.  At this point in the game, he would be 45 years behind.  

I do admit that there are people who aren't very self-aware though.  A dominant who is very observant and has a natural talent for understanding human behavior might be able to read a submissive with some degree of accuracy.   For those times he chooses to act on or share his observations, it might make it appear that he has unlimited understanding.

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 4:29:19 AM   
Hergirl0824


Posts: 119
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		for me and my Mistress the statement is very true..She very often knows me better than i know myself or at least sees things in me long before i am aware of them..especially when it comes to BDSM...i am very new to it all and Mistress's vast knowledge proves to take me places that i had never dreamed of, places She instinctively knows that i will enjoy

_____________________________

collared to Mistress Sizzlynn

When i let go of what i am, i become what i might be

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 4:45:51 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I won't say it's something dependent on a M/S or BDSM relationship.

It can be just as simple as when two people live together for a long period of time, they often become aware or perceive behaviors about the other person that are so "normal" for them that they are unaware of.

It's my opinion that perception of ourselves is limited in the sense that we act in ways that are so normal and natural for us without giving it any thought that it might be "weird, different or wrong". We need other people for comparison or other people to make the comparison for us for us to become aware of it for what it is as opposed to what we disillusion ourselves into thinking.

An example would be someone with a substance abuse problem, internet porn addiction, or football obsession that is consuming them. Their behavior is just simply "normal" to them until that one moment when a family member has an intervention and confronts him with what they see, bringing the epiphany of what he/she has been doing. They come to realize they are not simply "partying", but are an alcholic and go to rehab.

This doesn't mean, of course, people can't be wrong, but the point I am getting at is that I think other's peoples external awareness is necessary for the development of internal awareness because we are limited in our understanding of ourselves without other entities to compare ourselves to.


< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 1/10/2008 4:47:52 AM >

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 4:55:25 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		If you know all about someone then they have to be an uninteresting person and led a very boring life. Ask my own family about me and they will shake their heads and say who knows what he has done or is up to now. I am old and have never slowed down. You only know what a person wants you to know.  

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 5:16:30 AM   
denika


Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		He has suprised me several times by reading my reactions and   actions without me even being aware of it. Which I have to tell you , as a submissive can be thrilling and scary. My husband Rob is the same, being around two very observant men has it's moments.Add in Wolf's sharp wife  ( an amazing Sadist in her own right) and there is just no hiding *s*.  I don't beleive  the ability to read your partner's  is soley based on our involvment with SM, we've gotten to know each other in so many other ways. SM does add a unique twist to it tho. For me, pain is a very personal thing to share,I am at my most vunerable  and least guarded in those moments. Also why I have never  done the random play partner thing and now belonging to Wolf, there is very little of myself I don't share with him in one way or another.  He has a much better memory than I do :),  As we have gotten to know each other, I've learned to  read his body language and cadence of voice as well, it's an ongoing learning process :)


Wolf's denika

< Message edited by denika -- 1/10/2008 5:23:34 AM >

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 5:17:29 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not sure if he knows me better than I know myself or it's that he pays more attention to me than I do. If I'm in a frenzy I won't always know that I need is a good beating and a few dozen orgasms, but he, who watches so closely, always knows. I have gotten used to being under my Master's microscope and find great comfort in the fact that he takes his responsibility to me so seriously. Well....there are those moments.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 7:51:32 AM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble   <snipped>

Masters, do you think you know your submissive better than they know themselves? Submissives, does your Master know you better than you know yourself? Do you think the length of your involvement with BDSM and/or M/s has an impact on this knowledge of your partner and/or yourself?
 
Celeste


No.
No.
Maybe.
It's all a learning curve as with most relationships;  some are stuck in kindergarten and some go on to graduate. 

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 8:09:04 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I think he knows his perspective of me much better than I do.  I know my perspective of me better than he does.  Because of who he is and the experience he has had, he perceives things about me in ways that I do not.  I also perceive things about him in ways that he does not.

How accurate our individual perspectives are of each other only time and experience will tell and hopefully, they will remain in flux as we all continue to grow and change.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 8:19:52 AM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		in my case, he is my first and only Owner. i never had to tell him anything. It just turned out that we like exactly the same things, but i do have to say he knows me better, because he knows exactly how to introduce me to things i am afraid of and exactly how much i can take of it. He turns my fears around and i end up enjoying what i had feared.  Maybe it comes from his 23 ears of experience. i don't know, but i believe  (like in all relationships) Some people have a clue and some don't

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i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 8:32:29 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He's more objective when viewing me. So when I'm not objective, when I can't judge properly then I rely on his judgment. About matters where my emotions don't get in the way, I don't think so.

I just say that I don't handle sleep deprivation very well. He says I get bitchy at those times. At the same time, he gets a touch of paranoia when sleep deprived and he doesn't recognize it till after the fact. So I can look at him and ask him how much sleep he had, and tell him he's getting paranoid, and what about a nap?

Both of us do this for each other. I think most partners do, you live with someone, you learn what they're like and you notice patterns that they don't because they're immersed in it and unable to see what's happening. You know, the old not seeing the forest for the trees stuff.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 8:38:26 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
So, I've often heard it said that a Master knows the submissive better than the submissive knows themselves.

I have to wonder .. how much truth is there in that or.. is it just a myth?


I personally find the idea mildly absurd. The human mind is far too complex and amorphous to be taken for granted in this way. Such a bold and flat assumption on the part of the dominant party is the first step in the self-sabotage of authority and ability to properly govern.

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 9:05:50 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


So, I've often heard it said that a Master knows the submissive better than the submissive knows themselves.




Great great question. opening up both cans of debates and discussions of worms......
yes my Master knows me better than I know myself...because he has an objectivity AND a subjectivity about me and is akin to a personal therapist, friend, lover, decision maker, confidante and some-one to kick off against.
I have theories as to how it hapened that he is; ranging from karma to class and upbrining and culture, worls views and sexual compatability.
That's not to say I like it as I am used to being the 'one-who-knows' in my family life and my professional life. Actaully it is the fact that he knows me better than I do myself that I most kick off against rather than the perversity and kink he expects from me and between us.

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 9:07:27 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		They will know what you are willing to manifest.

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My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 9:20:57 AM   
ksub4u


Posts: 124
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		I think this comes down to how self-aware I am about certain things.  Sometimes when I have an 'ah-ha!' moment about my submission and relationship with my Master, he's not surprised by my conclusions, because knowing M/s and having more experience than I... he was kinda onto where I was headed. 

But in general, no - no one knows me better than I know myself.

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 9:28:10 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		If you're decently awaye of yourself, I don't think either one can know you better, really, they simply know different things. I had a good analogy about how/what that is. Your psyche is in four parts. The stuff you know and others know (public knowledge), the stuff you know that others don't (private knowledge you have), the stuff that others know that you don't (private knowledge the other has) and the stuff you nor others know (unknown knowledge). So, while you and someone else share some common knowledge, each have knowledge that the other doesn't. If you're REALLY unaware of yourself, the amount of private knowledge the other person has of could be significantly higher than the private knowledge you have of yourself.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 10:17:19 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Okay, you guys rock! Some great responses here - thank you. :)

For those who scrolled to the bold (smart people, you!) I fall into the camp of knowing myself pretty damn well, so do think I know myself much better than anyone else can possibly know me, including the man whose collar I've worn for the past, well, almost 11 years.

That said, he does know me well and his strength of knowledge about me lies more in getting me to actually see outside myself and look at things in a new way rather than have insights into 'me' that I don't have myself.

I think if it were different from what it is, I wouldn't constantly surprise him by the things which come out of my mouth. ::grins:: I know him pretty well, too, and he still surprises me on occasion, so as well as I do know him, I don't think I will ever know him (or anyone) as well as someone who self-aware can know themselves.

Thanks again for all the responses!

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Internal VS External Awareness - 1/10/2008 10:32:51 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Hey there BitaTruble awesome question.... As just a blanket statment I would think that is false....I mean how can someone say they know someone better then they know themself just because one is a "D" type and the other an "s" type....Having said that, I believe if you have a healthy and constructive relationship it can BECOME that way.

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Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

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