RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (Full Version)

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MasterRoad -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 1:48:44 PM)

I agree completely. Those who would cheat on a spouse are a disgrace to the honor of the Lifestyle. I know of one on here who is married, afraid to tell the little wifey that he wants to play, and is messing around withthe live in g/f of someone he calls a "friend". The irony is that this clown doesn't even know that his little plaything is playing with his friend there in the area as well as playing on the web. The sad part is that this is going on and others are being hurt by it all, even those who aren't living with these two.

I guess the fact that it always ends up blowing up in the faces of the cheaters is a nice consolation though. We reap what we sow.



MasterRoad -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 2:24:05 PM)

Cheating is cheating no matter what. I rarely get involved in discussions like this, but this one caught My eye due the fact that it has affected Me in the past.

This Lifestyle has always held a certian unwritten code of ethics for Me and while I will not claim innocence as far as having a relationship with someone not married yet not quite single, I do not feel that it is right for someone married to cheat. A promise has been made there to forsake all others and a trust is given and should not be violated for any reason. If one cannot continue to live within this promise, they should leave and move on and allow the other party to find the relationship and a trustworthy partner. If you are not truly happy where you are and in your relationship, get out. Don't stay because of finances, convienence, the fear of losing something material or whatever. There will be someone out there who will make you happy and give you what you need, but first a person needs to be worthy and honest enough to accept life.

Somehow the truth always comes out. It's sad when it does because of those who are hurt by it.No matter what, peoples emotions get involved and someone will get hurt. It is especially bad when one or the other has children. They get hurt and have had no conrtol over how their lives are affected. Then there is the other party who has given so much of themself that the sense of betrayal can become devistating. Who has the right to risk putting another through that pain?

I have so many thoughts on this I could write a book. LOL



quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

On this site, and another site I frequent, I have seen an alarming trend; people (usually new) in the lifestyle, talking about cheating on their spouse, so, dom, domme, sub, whathaveyou. (please don't tell me what you have...*lol*)
When others in the community (usually long-time bdsm'ers) try to explain to them that the heart of our lifestyle relies on trust above all other things, the cheaters don't want to hear about it.
They say things like "I thought this was a community of open-minded people" "In a community of kinksters, you should realize that not everyone can be open with their relationships" "This is a community founded on deviant sex practices. I'm not here to be judged."
What are the implications of practicing D/s in a less than honest manner?
Do you, as a sub, want to give yourself to a Dom who is such a coward he can't tell his wife what his fantasies are, AND that you even exist?
As a Dom, how do you feel about a woman calling you Master, and then returning home to hubby, who is none the wiser?
Is there any sort of power exchange there, or is it just kink?

~Christina



winterlight -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 3:39:14 PM)

i don't cheat. I do NOT want somebody in my life that is cheating on me or others.
I am very loyal to the ONE i find. I expect the same.

Today life is more complicated and there have been cases where the wife or S/O found out about the cheating spouse and went after the other woman. Lawsuits abound nowadays..



MsStarlett -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 3:47:28 PM)

Some people need to realize that "Cheating" can be defined differently in different relationships.  I'm married.  I have boy toys.  My husband knows about them and does not object.  As long as he is not objecting, how can it be 'cheating'? 

In fact, we agreed to give each other "veto power" over who we play with.  Sometimes, your spouse, your friends or your family can see things in a potential mate that is not good for you that you don't see for the 'blinders' we all wear.   Those people need to speak up when they see trouble looming.  Outsiders, those who do not know the people involved and the details of their situation need to STFU.



agoodgirl4Daddy -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 4:03:11 PM)

"You can’t call it cheatin’
Cause she reminds me of you"
 
lyrics from Gin Blossoms' song "Cheatin"

of course, most people would agree that that line is bullshit. 

however, i believe that some people have such warped points of view that they might believe it. 

or they might believe that b/c she ONLY sucks his cock, or that she ONLY lets him beat her ass til she cums, or that he ONLY shares his feelings of complete adoration of her and spends every free moment on the phone or online with her....that it ain't cheatin'!   got news for ya!!  it IS cheatin' when it's:

Deceptive

Kept secret from one's partner(s)

Dishonest

Full of lies (of commission or omission)

Avoiding honest communication with the players' partner(s)

but most of all....

Something that the person would not want their partner(s) to find out about!




LadyLolly -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 10:29:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agoodgirl4Daddy

"You can’t call it cheatin’
Cause she reminds me of you"
 
lyrics from Gin Blossoms' song "Cheatin"

of course, most people would agree that that line is bullshit. 

however, i believe that some people have such warped points of view that they might believe it. 

or they might believe that b/c she ONLY sucks his cock, or that she ONLY lets him beat her ass til she cums, or that he ONLY shares his feelings of complete adoration of her and spends every free moment on the phone or online with her....that it ain't cheatin'!   got news for ya!!  it IS cheatin' when it's:

Deceptive

Kept secret from one's partner(s)

Dishonest

Full of lies (of commission or omission)

Avoiding honest communication with the players' partner(s)

but most of all....

Something that the person would not want their partner(s) to find out about!




That sums it up as well as anything I've seen.
Leaving consentual agreements out of it - so not addressing open. poly, swinging etc.

If it's not consentual by all parties that are involved, directly or indirectly I don't want to be a party to it. 

And yes, I'ts usually my SO won't go along with it but even more often it's they wouldn't understand - without ever even checking it out.    And in some ways I feel for them, I do. But life is full of choices, decisions and the associated consequences.  I don't care to knowingly associate with those that are of unethical character, liars, cheats or thieves.  If they cannot respect a commitment/pledge to someone they've known a lot longer/better than myself - why would I expect anything different from them to myself?  No thanks. 

Then I got to considering.  Why do I feel it's more OK to seek professional services - because the level of personal emotion and conection isn't there- it's a "service", a business transaction, what is it taking away for making the situation "liveable".  Non-consentual financial costs and time, aren't these also taking things away?  And what about two people in other commited relationships that are only non-consnetually taking time and energy away from thier primary relationships?  Of  course there's the issue of trust loss and devastation if/when caught and the loss of diverted interest even if not.. So who's it hurting?  Those involved without consent.

Long and short of it, it's been done to me and I didn't like it at all.
I want no part of being party to it for another.  Not even passively.  Certainly not being put in a position where I have to choose to disclose or lie and cover for some one else.  I don't want a PI  dragging me into a suit or divorce.of a straying spouse.  I don't want to be caught in the crossfire in any capacity.   

Why is it so commonly thought that those of us who accept so many other things like kink, open relationships, etc would be accepting of cheating and lying also?  Don't cha know us perverts obviously  have no morals or ethics, any things goes or we wouldn't do the things we do and they wanna get them some!  



MasterRoad -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 11:20:33 PM)

girl, I like the way you think. It is My belief that it is cheating and wrong any time a trust or promise is broken, any time someone is afraid to let it be known, and when there is a risk of someone else being hurt.




quote:

ORIGINAL: agoodgirl4Daddy

"You can’t call it cheatin’
Cause she reminds me of you"
 
lyrics from Gin Blossoms' song "Cheatin"

of course, most people would agree that that line is bullshit. 

however, i believe that some people have such warped points of view that they might believe it. 

or they might believe that b/c she ONLY sucks his cock, or that she ONLY lets him beat her ass til she cums, or that he ONLY shares his feelings of complete adoration of her and spends every free moment on the phone or online with her....that it ain't cheatin'!   got news for ya!!  it IS cheatin' when it's:

Deceptive

Kept secret from one's partner(s)

Dishonest

Full of lies (of commission or omission)

Avoiding honest communication with the players' partner(s)

but most of all....

Something that the person would not want their partner(s) to find out about!





MasterCalif -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/13/2008 11:31:56 PM)

I read these posts with a grin of cynicism because they are so judgemental. I do not care if a woman I may choose to own is married. Nor do I point fingers of shame at others if they choose to have relationships outside their marriages. To each their own with out my judgements against them. I do not stand here with a self righteous attitude when I know there are many people who would point a shameful finger at me because of my desires for sexual practices that are outside the norm. Since when did such a group of people who are outside the norm get off and start to look at others with such a judgemental and critical eye.  Perhaps if the took the tree out of their eye they would see a little clearer.
MasterCalif



Asherdelampyr -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/14/2008 12:21:19 AM)

In answer to what I think is the original Q, Yes I get people both online and in RL that assume that just because im *kinky* or even just because im *goth* that I must be ok with anything/everything that they might like to do, even if it harms others. I want to backhand those people constantly and explain that just because I like apples and oranges, doesnt mean I want to see people get beaten with a pineapple (actually, in retrospect, that might be fun to see) Sorry in advance if this doesnt make sense.

As far as why Im getting married when I see/have sex with other people, its simple. I love my fiance, she loves me. We have a wonderful, fulfilling life together. both of us are bi, and neither wants to give up our same-sex fun. Neither do I want to give up my d/s fun. My fiance doesn't like/want to be whipped, paddled, or made to beg. I like doing these things to people. So, I get to do these things to other people, and then I come home and share the moments that we *both* enjoy together.




MasterRoad -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/14/2008 12:31:58 AM)

Yet the issue is Honor, honesty, trust, and deception. No matter where or what lifestyle a person is in, cheating is cheating. To sneak around behind the back or backs of people who trust you to not do so is wrong. No one has the right to decieve another or to risk anothers heart. As I have stated before, if you and your spouse/singnificant other, whatever are in agreement that the relationship is open, and the same holds true with the one you are with, then fine. But to sneak around like a coward, lying and decieving another is wrong no matter what.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCalif

I read these posts with a grin of cynicism because they are so judgemental. I do not care if a woman I may choose to own is married. Nor do I point fingers of shame at others if they choose to have relationships outside their marriages. To each their own with out my judgements against them. I do not stand here with a self righteous attitude when I know there are many people who would point a shameful finger at me because of my desires for sexual practices that are outside the norm. Since when did such a group of people who are outside the norm get off and start to look at others with such a judgemental and critical eye.  Perhaps if the took the tree out of their eye they would see a little clearer.
MasterCalif



MasterRoad -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/15/2008 8:36:45 PM)

As a Dominant, I would never have a submissive serving Me who was attached elsewhere. submission cannot be attained by not completely giving herself to Me. Mind, body, and spirit. Some may call Me greedy or selfish, but I will accept nothing less that everything. A submissive who plays with a Dom and then goes home to a husband or significant other, or a "Dominant" who does so, is not complete and needs to re-evaluate themself. Honor, Honesty, Trust... these are as important as Safe, Sane, and Consentual.

I like this thread as it is something I have tried stressing about the Lifestyle for wuite some time. Plain and simple, be honest in all aspects of who and what you are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

On this site, and another site I frequent, I have seen an alarming trend; people (usually new) in the lifestyle, talking about cheating on their spouse, so, dom, domme, sub, whathaveyou. (please don't tell me what you have...*lol*)
When others in the community (usually long-time bdsm'ers) try to explain to them that the heart of our lifestyle relies on trust above all other things, the cheaters don't want to hear about it.
They say things like "I thought this was a community of open-minded people" "In a community of kinksters, you should realize that not everyone can be open with their relationships" "This is a community founded on deviant sex practices. I'm not here to be judged."
What are the implications of practicing D/s in a less than honest manner?
Do you, as a sub, want to give yourself to a Dom who is such a coward he can't tell his wife what his fantasies are, AND that you even exist?
As a Dom, how do you feel about a woman calling you Master, and then returning home to hubby, who is none the wiser?
Is there any sort of power exchange there, or is it just kink?

~Christina



decstorm37 -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/15/2008 9:01:59 PM)

I have not read all of this post but my take on this is...For me cheating is a deal breaker. I will walk away in a heart beat. This goes for my Master also. We both said this from the get go and we both mean it. Cheating and lying go hand in hand. So if you cheat and lie to me how can i trust you?



cloudboy -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/16/2008 9:31:09 PM)

Do you want a blanket pronouncement about what can or cannot; should or should not exist between two people?. (Keep in mind the thousands of contexts and situations that are in play for such combinations.)

Next, morality doesn't dictate feelings, connections, or whether or not the dynamics of D/S can exist for a couple. Morality is but an influence, not a law or compulsion.

Morality, too, is relative.

Hence, I think your question is entirely unanswerable.

Such questions can only be determined or analyzed on a case-by-case basis.



vampiresscammy -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/17/2008 6:05:57 AM)

my definition of cheating - your partner/SO/whatever you call them NOT knowing about other relations you have with someone, or your partner/SO NOT agreeing to said relations and you big fat do it anyways

once again, if all parties involved, no matter how many that is, are in full knowledge of said on goings and agreeing to them, i personally fail to see how that is cheating, i.e. if you parner/so knows about the others you see/are involved with and has no problem with it, or you knwo about the others your partner sees or is involved with, or hey you and your so both have other relations

for those folks who are in a realationship and step outside WITHOUT the others knowledge or consent, that IS cheating to me, if thats your bag, kudos, its not for me, and i won't be a part of it ever again, too many hurt feelings, too much drama, just simply too much negativity

for those of us in open commited relationships wishing to add more casually or premanently, again as long as all involved know and agree to what is happening, whether all involved take other partners or just one, woot, thats great, many well wishes to all, and to me could not possibly be construde as cheating

either you know and agree or you don't, the number of people involved has nothing to do with it for me, but thats just me



TMaster2 -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/17/2008 6:29:25 AM)

I never get involved with a cheater.  As soon as I hear "hubby doesn't know..." I'm outta there.  Personally, my search is for a couple where not only does the hubby know, he helps!  *EG*



MasterRoad -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/22/2008 11:04:12 PM)

Agreed. Cheating is cheating no matter what. Some claim and figure that as long as no-one knows nobody is getting hurt. They are - when one cheats, or both do, the others in the relationships suffer. They suffer the loss of affections even if they are unaware. Any man or woman, especially married, who forgets the "forsaking all others" is a fool for doing that to one they claimed to love. I figure if you aren't getting what you need at home, it is time to get out.


quote]ORIGINAL: vampiresscammy

my definition of cheating - your partner/SO/whatever you call them NOT knowing about other relations you have with someone, or your partner/SO NOT agreeing to said relations and you big fat do it anyways

once again, if all parties involved, no matter how many that is, are in full knowledge of said on goings and agreeing to them, i personally fail to see how that is cheating, i.e. if you parner/so knows about the others you see/are involved with and has no problem with it, or you knwo about the others your partner sees or is involved with, or hey you and your so both have other relations

for those folks who are in a realationship and step outside WITHOUT the others knowledge or consent, that IS cheating to me, if thats your bag, kudos, its not for me, and i won't be a part of it ever again, too many hurt feelings, too much drama, just simply too much negativity

for those of us in open commited relationships wishing to add more casually or premanently, again as long as all involved know and agree to what is happening, whether all involved take other partners or just one, woot, thats great, many well wishes to all, and to me could not possibly be construde as cheating

either you know and agree or you don't, the number of people involved has nothing to do with it for me, but thats just me
[/quote]



MissHarlet -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/22/2008 11:14:45 PM)

If you have to lie about what you do .. or you dont want your SO to find out ... or it would hurt them to find out .. it is cheating ..... if they know and it is ok with them .. then as far as Im concerned it is NOT cheating. 

Anything that involves dishonesty... or must be hidden in order not to hurt your SO is Cheating no matter how you look at it. If you are willing to take a chance on hurting the one you supposedly love, why would I think you would not be willing to lie and hurt me? .



MasterRoad -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/22/2008 11:34:11 PM)

My point exactly MissHarlet. There is an element of trust in not only this Lifestyle, but in life in general. If one is willing to break that trust... it is depressing.

I honestly try not to judge, and I am always willing to overlook someones mistakes and give them the benefit of a doubt, but when you take a solemn vow to be faithful to one and only one, it shuld not be broken. Not for any reason.



Maestro66babycak -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/22/2008 11:47:13 PM)

deleted by author after finding new info.



spanklette -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/22/2008 11:55:42 PM)

~FR~
 
This was proabably already covered...I didn't read the entire thread, but I'm feeling verbose. Anyway, it always amuses me to no end that people are shocked that lifestylers cheat. It's like once you're a lifestyler you've reached some sort of moral mecca that doesn't allow cheating.
 
There are people out there who will paint cheating with creative lifestyle brushes, but it is cheating when someone is in the dark and probably going to get hurt.
 
Go forth and multiply, but don't think that lifestylers are any better than anyone else.



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