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playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 2:41:19 PM   
RoughFN


Posts: 197
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline 		I opted to start a new thread since I came up with another concept I'd like to explore and I'm afraid it'll get lost in the other discussion that I won't mention by name lest I accidentally triplicate that specific topic. Accidentally duplicating it was bad enough.

This one is aimed at the slaves who have given up a great deal of control to your master, but wouldn't necessarily do anything he asked of you.

Specifically, what if he ordered you to do something that conceptually you had a problem with, but the specifics didn't phase you. An example will help.

Your master comes home one day and announces that from now on he will choose what you eat for dinner. This concept is completely abhorrent to you - it was never negotiated, you feel strongly about choosing your own food, it's an expression of your individuality, you want to eat healthily, yadda yadda yadda. You're completely opposed to this and are about to get really angry at him, when before you can say anything he continues, "And tonight you will have a cheeseburger."

This actually sounds okay to you. You like cheeseburgers and could go for one tonight. Do you go along with the order just because the specific case is acceptable, or do you "follow" the order secretly knowing that you're not really complying, you just wanted a cheeseburger?


Personally? If the concept is so appalling and unspeakable to my girl, I'd rather she balk and fight back immediately. Otherwise, we're potentially going to go a couple of weeks with me picking dinners that turn out to be acceptable to her by dumb luck and her just going along with it because it's easier than fighting. But eventually I'm going to hit something that she really doesn't want to do. Say I like lamb and she doesn't (which in my case is actually true) and I decree that one night she'll eat lamb. Then she blows up and screams and protests that me choosing her meals is completely inappropriate and not something she's going to do.

That would clearly demonstrate that she wasn't actually obeying the order for the last few weeks and was just going along with it. The way I view it is that an order is something that you are supposed to do, and whether you want to do it or not is immaterial. So yes, you can follow an order if you like what you're doing and there's nothing wrong with that, but claiming that you're following the order when you're just avoiding an argument isn't submitting at all and that comes to light when something comes up you don't actually enjoy.

But how would the rest of you react? Would you let a pleasurable specific order distract you from your not accepting the general case? Or would you stand your ground regardless of the specifics?
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 2:55:28 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

I would have to talk to him from the start. I ended up not posting this but (and my apologies if it ends up restarting things) I thought about what you said and it is too easy to assume the worst case situation.

No matter what, in any case where he was making an order that I felt was conceptually wrong we would have just have to talk about it until we reached an agreement regarding the matter.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RoughFN)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 3:01:06 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		I'd definitely stand my ground on it, even if I had been dying for a cheeseburger all week. If I was hungry enough I'd eventually eat it, but I'd be very clear about my opposition to the idea. Quietly letting things slide wouldn't help her, or me for that matter.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 3:04:42 PM   
jadedserendipity


Posts: 3596
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I personally would not have much of an issue with my partner picking and choosing my food, and I am only going with this idea since it was the given above, however I think that in a relationship where I am constantly with someone they would know what I like and or dislike therefore I think that they would realize as finicky an eater as I am they should stick within what it is I actually consume because if they chose something they knew I hate I would not eat it period.

Now in regards to taking it outside of the given option I will say that assuming my partner were to come home and suddenly declare that he were going to be implicating a new rule that we had not even discussed, I think that there is a way to respectfully not leave my position as his submissive and to simply ask if we may discuss this new rule. There are many ways to stand your ground and not be disrespectful or out of bounds. I am the type to stand my ground, if I find something totally appalling that I would refuse to adhere to then I would not simply say "yes sir" it is my opinion and I personally could not be with a Dominant partner who did not value my opinion and or feelings. If he did in fact value these things he would be open to listening to what I had to say in regards to the topic and would value my opinion I am not saying that he would simply back down and say okay you are right however I think that in such a situation he would further assess and include my reaction and responses in the thought process to see if the possible new rule would benefit us or be something to our detriment.....etc.

Sorry I think I may have rambled through that a bit but my head is throbbing and I am fighting a bit of a migraine.

_____________________________

-:Anias Nin:- I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.

(in reply to RoughFN)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 3:10:58 PM   
subantionette


Posts: 57
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline 		If i was requested to do somethig i was not completly alright with i would not play along with it just because the first couple of times it was an ok request. i would tell my Dom that i wasnt ok with this, and i would ask Him why He wanted me to do this and listen to His reasons behind his request, then i would tell Him why i wasnt ok with it and explain my reasons. W/we would then come to a descision that He was ok with and that i could live with. If the reasons behind his request were for my well being, ie. He wanted us to eat healthier, i would ok with it. if it was just because he felt like it or wanted to see what i would do i wouldnt be to happy about it. i hope that helps you

(in reply to RoughFN)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 3:12:12 PM   
ksub4u


Posts: 124
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Would you let a pleasurable specific order distract you from your not accepting the general case? Or would you stand your ground regardless of the specifics?


Interesting question.  It hasn't applied in my relationship yet - Master always discusses new things with me and obtains my consent - especially because we're so new together and learning one another.  I'd have to think he would rather I respectfully request to discuss the new issue and explain my reasoning for being opposed to whatever it was.  I may be his slave, but he still values my mind and opinions, and while he will have the last word, I can't imagine him ordering something that I was morally or physically opposed to.

(in reply to RoughFN)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 3:14:28 PM   
cherrypez


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline 		    Food would never be a big deal as we eat the same way---our tastes are pretty much alike as a matter of fact, normally when we dine out, he chooses my meal because he knows me well.  
   There are somethings though I just am uncomfortable doing because either I have never tried it, am afraid to try it or have already tried it and dislike it.    I express my concerns.   Normally, depending on my reasoning, we simply don't do it other times, he requests that I at least try it and if I really dislike it, we don't do it again.

(in reply to RoughFN)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 5:19:33 PM   
lilacs


Posts: 46
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		I am a very big "why" person.  I have told him before that if I have trouble with a request/command/whatever that knowing or understanding the "why" behind it will often help me in overcoming it.  If he can talk to me about why it is a power trip for him to choose my food (or whatever, I'm just using that example) I might be able to find a way around it.

As others have said, I would talk to him right away rather than wait.  Something along the lines of "You choose the exact sort of food I would have chosen for myself, Sir.  Can I ask what options I would have if you had chosen something I really didn't want at all?  This is going to be something I can see being really difficult for me in the long term..."

(in reply to cherrypez)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 5:30:10 PM   
donnaamarie


Posts: 335
Joined: 9/7/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings,

I follow commands without asking or questioning.  At a recent gathering we had this very conversation.  I used the example that if my Master asked me to jump off of the deck that surrounded the house, into the water, I would jump.  After all was said and done and it was unclear why he had me jump, ie; there was no fire or emergency, I would ask him what compelled him to command me to jump.  I would assume all along that he had a reason for issuing the command. 

I do not have ongoing negotiations with my Master.  After 5 years he knows me and knows me well, and there is probably not a whole heck of a lot he would do to cause me intentional harm.  The trust level is such that I do what he says, without question.  It is a given that I can discuss whatever there is to discuss, after the command.  As far as doing something just to go along with it, even if it were pleasurable, if it is at his command then it will be done, period.

donna - property of Ubar John

_____________________________

Life is not about waiting for storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 5:33:35 PM   
onmykneesb4Him


Posts: 113
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		i've been reading these threads with interest. i've honestly been quite surprised. i belong to Sir, and i know He will make the best choices for me in every area. Of course if i have issues with something i will bring them up- He wouldn't want it any other way. But regardless of my feeling on whatever subject we are discussing, His desicion is final. Period. In every case.

So.....i guess i'm not really one of those you wanted to reply, because i would eat the cheeseburger regardless, if that's what He wanted. In fact, He recently decided i need to eat fish. This is a big deal because i have been a vegetarian for 17 years. There are very legitimate reasons for me to eat it. It has become essential for my health. So He told me i would start eating fish, and i do, without complaint because i know He is taking care of me.

(in reply to lilacs)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 5:45:00 PM   
sweetstorm


Posts: 227
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline 		I'd ask why. I'd ask what the goal was. I'd ask what I can do to help. I'd ask for a list of acceptable foods in case I want a snack. I'd ask if I should be doing anything else to help.

I ask a million questions. I want to do what He asks but I want to know the reasoning so I can help to make choices without burdening Him with every little thing. I want to be a part of the team working towards a COMMON goal. So if the goal is not common,  if it is just for power and nothing else, I'd be awfully disappointed in Him honestly. 

_____________________________

You don't need a parachute to skydive.

You need a parachute to skydive twice.

(in reply to onmykneesb4Him)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 5:45:56 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings,

I agree with everything donnamarie said.  In a TPE dynamic, there isn't a lot of wiggle room for disobedience and displeasure.  Many people struggle with their slavery because they don't understand that the enslavement becomes real when you are challenged to do something you do not want to do.  What attitude do you display?  How do you recognize this part of yourself that needs work in order to find pleasure in doing this for your Master?  Can you work past it and exhale into the peace, calm and serenity of finding pleasure in obedience simply for obedience sake?

Recently, SJ had me stop on my way to his place and buy 3 quarts of motor oil.  When I arrived, I handed them to him and began to put away groceries.  He turned to me and said, "Now go pour these over yourself."  I replied , "Where?" with my hands out expecting him to give them to me.  He smiled and said, "Good girl."  My instinct was not to question his request - simply to obey.  If SJ has need of me to be covered in 5W-30 then I will be covered in 5W-30.  As it turns out, he did not.  Yet I learned so much about myself that day and the level of trust and belief in him that i had reached. 

While not all M/s relationships are TPE, ours is and this is the context  I use for the basis of my reply.

well wishes ~ fairer than she


_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to donnaamarie)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 5:54:52 PM   
sweetstorm


Posts: 227
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline 		That was beautiful, FTS!
And on that note, I'd like to revise my answer. I haven't served a Dom in awhile and sometimes fall out of subby thinking.

Because she's totally right. I would do it. In a relationship built on trust, I'd just do it. Whatever He asked, I'd just do it and eventually ask why but I'd assume He had a reason and if He didn't, oh well.

Thank you, fairerthanshe, for the reminder. 

_____________________________

You don't need a parachute to skydive.

You need a parachute to skydive twice.

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 6:05:19 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		If I thought my Daddy was going to order me into an unhealthy lifestyle choice, such as having me subsist forever more on junk food, we would discuss this thoroughly before going down that road. I would not eat a few cheese burgers and maybe some cheese cake, before talking it out.

Do I find the idea of allowing the game to continue until a "limit" had been reached to be deceitful? No, not really, perhaps the submissive hasn't decided how much it matters to her, perhaps she is considering how to talk about it and going along until she feels she can't anymore. Perhaps she just hasn't found the gumption to find her voice to say no. I have a hard time saying "no" to him, I might be tempted to take the easy path myself for awhile until I could figure out how to tell him "no". But it wouldn't be because I was trying to be deceitful

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RoughFN)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 8:01:05 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings sweet storm,

Thank you for the kind words.  Its always nice to know when something I post resonates with another.

well wishes ~ fairer than she


_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to sweetstorm)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 9:00:22 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not a 'slave' and doubt I ever will be.  But in this instance, as a submissive who, in her last relationship fought to keep the autonomy I needed,

I don't actually eat red meat, which has been a long-time choice for me because of environmental factors, so I couldn't just go along with that.

But if it was something I wasn't morally opposed to (I don't mean for other people--eat what you want, but for me), even if I didn't like it, it would depend on whether we were in public or private and whether I thought I could do it for the night.

I'd probably go along with it for the evening and say something like "I'll obey tonight but we need to talk about this tomorrow."  Not to just "play along" but because I think it is better to have a knee-jerk reaction of obeying and getting my thoughts in order so I know specifically what I need.  But I'd also want him to know that this wasn't a fait accompli.

I would never just go along and them blindsite (is that a word?) him later with it not being OK.  But I'm a big one for really understanding the issues before I bring them up.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 9:46:51 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I like a lot of what's said here.

In my own life, if I'd told my partner to pour the oil on himself, he'd look at me like I was crazy, perhaps fuzz a bit and try to understand, but ultimately, out he'd go and it would be done.

And since that's exactly how I want it to be, it works out perfectly. 

The issue isn't questioning or balking- it's are you responding as is expected?  Many masters train their slaves to question and balk, to say no, to ask for more information and to provide it when necessary.

And whenever something comes up that makes someone feel insecure or erodes the security of the relationship, it's everyones fault- it means some step was missed along that way and you need to go and make that up now.  So if you come home with a type of order that was never legitimately understood as part of the expectations- it's everyones "fault" and everyone needs to work to get through it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/10/2008 10:09:53 PM   
ownedandcollared


Posts: 217
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline 		i think, that in general, playing along with a request is part of the equation. If it was something i was drastically opposed to, then i would discuss it. But i think its those little ways of control that deepen the relationship between Owner and slave. If you're going to fight over every little bit of yourself you give up, then whats the point?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/11/2008 12:18:42 AM   
darkpassenger434


Posts: 138
Joined: 1/1/2008
Status: offline 		It doesn't seem like playing along would be the way to go for most things. I would want to discuss it respectfully. That raises another question though. Would it be a good idea to include protocol for this in a pact or contract, assuming that you're into such things. I like romantic wording and things of that nature. If a sub/slave disagreed with me in the format of "Sir, I'm not sure if your sub/slave can perform in this manner and stay true to your stated intent to safeguard her wellbeing. May I request respite so that we may discuss the matter?" I would love it and certainly wouldn't get upset, unless this were used for every little thing.
-R

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"The man who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the man doing it."

(in reply to ownedandcollared)
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RE: playing along with a request - 1/11/2008 6:12:04 AM   
parttimehotty


Posts: 4002
Joined: 11/19/2007
From: Virginville
Status: offline 		As long as it was a VEGGIE cheeseburger, i'd be fine ;)
i gave up meat a long time ago and have no intention on eating it again just because someone orders me to for no other reason than they felt like making me do something against my beliefs.

_____________________________

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Official Mommy of Jolly & Jilly

Nobody is 'dead' until nobody remembers them
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(in reply to RoughFN)
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