RE: Non-Constructive Responses

RE: Non-Constructive Responses (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master

Message

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 1:58:43 PM)
all the Jews i know talk about the Jewish guilt thing.....they are who i learned about it from.....i tell em they got guilt, as a Baptist, i got the fear of eternal burning in hell......dunno which of us got off easier-lol

sexyred1 -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: I am Jewish and have no idea what you mean by this. Are you saying that Jewish people get down on themselves and do not take constructive criticism? Or that they have low self-esteem. None of which is true in my case or anyone else that I personally know. Unless you are basing assumptions on just YOUR partner or Woody Allen characters. Care to comment? I comment that you are too sensitive. But generally, it's a joke based on a stereotype that Jewish kids are raised with tons of guilt and never being good enough and never doing the right thing and always having to please their moms. If you can't laugh and appreciate a stereotype for the pleasure it can bring, what can you laugh at? As well, I think it's way too soon after trying to pretend that Hannaukah is a "major holiday" to the Jewish faith to start taking any umbrage under that label and be taken seriously. I'm sorry Red, but I have to agree with her. It's a joking stereotype like the whole Catholic guilt thing. Part of Val's family is Jewish, a good number of our friends either are or have Jewish family and we make a lot of jokes about the whole "Jewish guilt" thing. Just like we make jokes about the fluffy bunny Pagans and the Jesus Crispies (think the kids who walk around wearing shirts with Jesus logos). Aqua, you should know by now that I have a sense of humor about most things, including being called a JAP, etc. However...what I was replying to was the discussion in this thread about non-constructive responses, of which I felt that was. There is a very, very fine line between joking about JAPS, etc. and other comments that are made. I have had friends and family in personal situations and in business situations targeted in anti-semitic ways. You would never believe it would you, living where I do, but the fact remains that it does happen. And, I did not reply negatively to LA at first until she felt it necessary to criticize me for a personal belief system that I have about a Jewish holiday that I mentioned back in December. She felt it was necessary to bring that comment into play during this discussion when all I did was ask her to comment on her statement, as I would anyone else. If you read my questions/comments to her, you can see what I asked in a very neutral way, one in which she took to be overly sensitive and then further inflamed the situation by bringing up my opinion on Hanukah, which is not even relevant. That type of ridiculous posturing is what gets my ire going. Not simple joking around about JAPS.

AquaticSub -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:12:12 PM)
I did look back and my opinion is she made a joke about Jewish guilt that was taken a little too seriously. I also disagreed with you in the thread about Hannaukah, BTW. At the risk of being flippant, can we settle this over some latkes?

sexyred1 -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:13:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub I did look back and my opinion is she made a joke about Jewish guilt that was taken a little too seriously. I also disagreed with you in the thread about Hannaukah, BTW. At the risk of being flippant, can we settle this over some latkes? I hate latkes, but how about some wine? [;)]

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 Aqua, you should know by now that I have a sense of humor about most things, including being called a JAP, etc. However...what I was replying to was the discussion in this thread about non-constructive responses, of which I felt that was. So when you said "I don't like stereotypes in any form." what you really meant was "I don't like stereotypes when I don't laugh at them and want an excuse to curse at someone." quote: And, I did not reply negatively to LA at first until she felt it necessary to criticize me for a personal belief system that I have about a Jewish holiday that I mentioned back in December. I didn't criticize you for it, I simply said that you can't expect to be taken seriously on a point about being Jewish when you made such a blatant misstep regarding a Jewish tenant so recently. And you do realize that statement is the equivalent of saying "She started it"? quote: If you read my questions/comments to her, you can see what I asked in a very neutral way, one in which she took to be overly sensitive and then further inflamed the situation by bringing up my opinion on Hanukah, which is not even relevant. That type of ridiculous posturing is what gets my ire going. Not simple joking around about JAPS. Again, you're ok with stereotypes as long as you like to laugh about it and don't want an excuse to curse at someone. And if you sincerely believe anyone is going to consider your initial response to have been "nuetral" then you really are deluded.

AquaticSub -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:15:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub I did look back and my opinion is she made a joke about Jewish guilt that was taken a little too seriously. I also disagreed with you in the thread about Hannaukah, BTW. At the risk of being flippant, can we settle this over some latkes? I hate latkes, but how about some wine? [;)] I've got a bottle of some yummy blackberry stuff that is even kosher! Which reminds me... I forgot to light the candles yesterday. Damn it.

sexyred1 -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:22:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 Aqua, you should know by now that I have a sense of humor about most things, including being called a JAP, etc. However...what I was replying to was the discussion in this thread about non-constructive responses, of which I felt that was. So when you said "I don't like stereotypes in any form." what you really meant was "I don't like stereotypes when I don't laugh at them and want an excuse to curse at someone." quote: And, I did not reply negatively to LA at first until she felt it necessary to criticize me for a personal belief system that I have about a Jewish holiday that I mentioned back in December. I didn't criticize you for it, I simply said that you can't expect to be taken seriously on a point about being Jewish when you made such a blatant misstep regarding a Jewish tenant so recently. (who are you to make a judgement on my opinion regarding my feelings on a Jewish holiday? are you insane???) And you do realize that statement is the equivalent of saying "She started it"? (yes, you did start the negativity, I simply asked you to comment on your statement) quote: If you read my questions/comments to her, you can see what I asked in a very neutral way, one in which she took to be overly sensitive and then further inflamed the situation by bringing up my opinion on Hanukah, which is not even relevant. That type of ridiculous posturing is what gets my ire going. Not simple joking around about JAPS. Again, you're ok with stereotypes as long as you like to laugh about it and don't want an excuse to curse at someone. (no, I already explained my position on answering the question put forth in the OP's question. I commented on YOUR comment. Get over it. I don't need an excuse to do anything. And if you sincerely believe anyone is going to consider your initial response to have been "nuetral" then you really are deluded. (My reply to you was neutral and I am not deluded nor do I care who sees it as neutral or not. I know my intent. Intent is what I am concerned with, not your opinion. I only clarified for Aqua since she is always very reasonable about discussions. Even though she and I can agree to disagree, she does it in an inoffensive manner, unlike your reply to my asking you to comment, in which you brought up my personal belief system.) Now, if you feel you would like the last word, LA, be my guest, since I am now done with you and this ridiculous conversation.

MadRabbit -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:22:33 PM)
I've got all the answers I need at this point so you ladies can feel free to have at it. Just take off a shirt or something.

ModeratorEleven -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:22:47 PM)
Children, please. XI

sexyred1 -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:23:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I've got all the answers I need at this point so you ladies can feel free to have at it. Just take off a shirt or something. No, we are done, at least I am and apologies for the hijack rabbit.

MadRabbit -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:24:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I've got all the answers I need at this point so you ladies can feel free to have at it. Just take off a shirt or something. No, we are done, at least I am and apologies for the hijack rabbit. pouts So no shirts being taken off in the cat fight?

sexyred1 -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:29:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I've got all the answers I need at this point so you ladies can feel free to have at it. Just take off a shirt or something. No, we are done, at least I am and apologies for the hijack rabbit. pouts So no shirts being taken off in the cat fight? I only do jello wrestling, ask Aqua. No cat fights, wouldn't want to break a nail.

AquaticSub -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:36:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I've got all the answers I need at this point so you ladies can feel free to have at it. Just take off a shirt or something. Heehee, way ahead of you. I'm already in my undies!

CalifChick -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 2:53:49 PM)
FR to yank this kicking and screaming back to the original topic... Yo! AngryBunnyDude! I remember going to a seminar eons ago about dealing with different types of people in the workplace. I know, I know, bear with me for a minute. One of the types was a person that when reprimanded for something, did not take it as an opportunity for change and growth, but as an affirmation of their low worth as a person. Sound familiar? The inexperienced manager would end up apologizing for reprimanding, and the behavior that caused the error in the first place was never corrected and did not change. I searched for the solution to that, and I couldn't find the specific recommended steps. Because I don't hire people like that, or they don't last very long for other reasons, or I just handle it my own way, I don't remember the exact advice. I do know that it involved not buying into the "pity party", but keeping the topic on track regarding the specific behavior that needed to change no matter how much the other person tried (on purpose or otherwise) to derail it. It may have involved confronting obviously ridiculous statements such as "I cannot do anything right" with a statement of fact such as, "you and I both know that is not true, you are great at XXX and XXX and XXXX. If I didn't think you were a valuable employee (partner/friend/part of my life/whatever), then I would not bother with this. You are valuable, and you need to work on this one thing." Notice the last statement had the conjunction "and", not "but" in it. It would read negatively if you said, "You are valuable, but you need to work on this one thing." Cali

DesFIP -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 6:15:06 PM)
Well, if negative reinforcement doesn't work, I suggest not using it. Simply ignoring unwanted behavior and only responding with positive reinforcement instead.

Aswad -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 7:34:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Actually, this is really helpful, because it stems toward her problem. I prefer to be private about what goes on in my own interpersonal relations, more or less, and she reads the forums so I am not going to embaress her by spewing her life story here for all to see. Make sure you keep the positive statements in the realm of credibility. Probably goes without saying, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. If you would like to do it more thoroughly, pick up Lazarus' books on cognitive behavioural therapy, and possibly some of Pinker's books (like "How the mind works"). Another good point is that if you give her more stuff to succeed at (I'm not talking about rigginng the game, so to speak, just picking it more carefully), you get her into the habit of succeeding, and get to build successes on top of successes. That may take a certain amount of time, but it's also a fairly reliable approach, as long as it doesn't feel like you're coddling, handholding or holding her back. Each failure costs more than you gain by an equivalent success; that's just how most people are wired. Hence, getting into the habit of succeeding can be a good thing. I also think the advice about reinforcing your judgment over hers (the whole bit about you setting the standard, not her) is sound. Just keep in mind that this also requires actually being honest about failures, so she knows she can trust the positive feedback she gets. Also, if she isn't getting some kind of catharsis out of punishments, I'd either consider using a different kind (I can't really offer advice on that without a clear idea about what the failures are), not using them at all, or stepping them up. The latter should only be done if you're sure it will provide catharsis, of course, but I figure you can judge whether that is the case or not. I do know that some can find it hard to mete out sufficiently strict punishments to alleviate guilt over failures, though, and in the cases where punishment actually does provide that, it can be useful to try to move it up to a level that works. Not a favoured technique with me, though. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/12/2008 7:38:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I find it sickening to see anti-semitism in any guise, especially from someone who is dating a Jewish person. Kind of touchy, it seems to me as a neutral third party (i.e. I've not been exposed to the origins of the stereotype, and I feel about the same regarding you and LA both). And the quoted part fuels a stereotype that gives rise to anti-semetism, namely that Jews (in this stereotype that you're fuelling) will cry "anti-semitism" at things non-Jews would take as regular, interpersonal disagreements. Health, al-Aswad.

eevin -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/13/2008 9:18:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit For example, the person automatically responds by getting down on herself and viewing herself as a failure and incompetent as opposed to constructively viewing this as an opportunity to improve. Personally, that's how i react. Even though i know i should take it constructively. Any time ANYONE tells me something negative i take it to heart that i'm failure because they've seen something negative (or at least not positive) about me. Then i get angry with myself a bit later because i've let that happen to me again.

sexyred1 -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/13/2008 9:34:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I find it sickening to see anti-semitism in any guise, especially from someone who is dating a Jewish person. Kind of touchy, it seems to me as a neutral third party (i.e. I've not been exposed to the origins of the stereotype, and I feel about the same regarding you and LA both). And the quoted part fuels a stereotype that gives rise to anti-semetism, namely that Jews (in this stereotype that you're fuelling) will cry "anti-semitism" at things non-Jews would take as regular, interpersonal disagreements. Health, al-Aswad. Your opinion has been noted and discarded. Thanks for the input.

carlie310 -> RE: Non-Constructive Responses (1/13/2008 12:19:43 PM)
FR~ This is something with which I currently struggle. I hate to let anyone down and at least one Dom has noticed this pattern in my behavior. The best advice that I've seen in this thread is the one about framing the correction as "I love you and. . ." instead of "I love you but. . ." The first is very affirming; the second makes the neurotic in me wonder how many buts it will take to cancel out the love. The advice to ignore the disobedience and focus on the positive is good as well, except I would make one small change. If I were in a conversation with someone about me, I would suggest that the disobedience (or 'opportunity for growth', lol) be noted as briefly as possible, with as few emotional whammy words as possible. (disappointed, for example) eg: "You didn't do XYZ today. What is your plan for doing it?" If I screw up and it never gets mentioned, the opportunities for self-flagellation abound. Bringing it up and dealing with any practical consequences (not balancing checkbook, to steal an example from an entirely different derailed thread) takes care of the issue while minimizing the emotional impact. Of course, that's how it would work better for me, right now. Tomorrow may be different for me, and today is almost surely different for everyone else. I look forward to reading the next thread you start, MR, for a variety of reasons.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875