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Defensive about being Submisive - 1/10/2008 10:54:46 PM   
wervenom


Posts: 10
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline 		Not much of a Forum poster so bear with me.

I find for myself that I am very Defensive about the fact that I am submisive (least I can say it now days). I have spent so long fighting this part of myself (mostly I guess for my ex wife and current gf both nilla), so I guess that is part of the reason.

So does/has anyone else found themselves being defensive in regards to their submission and if you once did but have learnt to mange it how so?

ps: Yes my sig is "we are who we are" doesn't mean you don't fight with yourself.

< Message edited by wervenom -- 1/10/2008 10:55:46 PM >
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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/10/2008 11:26:02 PM   
petpete


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Mate if you know my story you will go back to vanilla... i have knocked out every Domme that came in my way, yet i want to call myself a slave...lol

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Max: And loving it!


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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/10/2008 11:47:45 PM   
darkpassenger434


Posts: 138
Joined: 1/1/2008
Status: offline 		This might slightly off topic. First of all I have been involved with people that problem. Second, I'm a Dom/Master and sometime I do the same thing toward my own nature. I think its just a human nature thing to get more defensive the further you pull from the baseline "average" for many people, whether you are more submissive or more dominant. At least in the beginning anyway.
-R

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/10/2008 11:50:52 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		OP do you mean defensive towards those you are in a relationship with that are dominant?  I think many of us are defensive to the concept that we should genuflect to any D type that happens to be in our virtual presence.  However, I think it's also warranted.

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I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 12:31:09 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Not in particular no.
I defend the right for anyone to be what they want and practise what they want, but that doesn't mean moreso for submission.
So no.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 4:38:21 AM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		I've been very, very defensive about it, and I'm still quite in the closet.  I think it would really affect my ability to do my job, so that is a real issue.

For me, and it is different since I'm a gal, but I felt like I was failing as a feminist.  It doesn't matter how many times I'd say to myself "feminism is about giving women choices"--I still felt like I was buying into the heteronormative, patriarchal hegemony that has been used to oppress women for millennium. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" and failing to live up to that ideal, of kind, egalitarian sex, preferably on a mattress of recycled Birkenstocks with hemp sheets (tie-dyed of course) and crystals all around while I sang kumbaya felt like a failure as a progressive woman.

I read Rianne Eisler's book (oy--worst book ever!) as I attempted to 'cure' myself of this whole issue.  And I basically was celibate for years because I can't do vanilla (I mean I can do it for a night, but it is soul-deadening to me), but I couldn't come to this.  I was in the 5th grade when I 'knew' this about me, literally one night in college burnt all my erotica because I thought it was eating away at my soul and started lurking on-line when I was 22.  I was 26 by my first munch, 30 for my first kinky encounter, which was a disaster (as I got dumped the week of 9-11 for being too clingy--oy), and then ran away again till I was 34.

But I have to say, making myself accept this, even in little ways, helped a great deal.  "Fake it till you make it" and the act of faking it will make it a lot easier.  Anyone who wanted to get involved with me would have to deal with my angst.  They just would.  At the same time, it is SO much less than it was.  In part because I'm so much happier (and attractive) than I've ever been.  There is a level of joy and vibrancy in my life that I never had before.  My dad even thinks I'm pretty now, which he never did before and it because my energy is my life is so much cleaner, I'm more present.  More engaged.  Joyous and alive. 

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 6:20:03 AM   
wervenom


Posts: 10
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline 		petpete: Don't worry I think I know your story or at least one that's pretty similar (mine)..... many a time I've wished why can't I just be nilla and many a time I've tried. I’m not wired that way it seems.

laurell3: No exactly, more things such is my nick itself and even my profile.... not exactly what you'd call inviting. In fact chosen specifically to be non-inviting. I guess in a way I'm holding with that old saying "The best Defense is a good Offense". The problem is while I know I'm doing it and it's not really what I want to do, I continue to do it. I have been lucky in that some people have seen through these defensive shields and have become good friends that I can talk to about BDSM without feeling guilty etc.

liminalRapture: I hope that it continues well and it is good to hear that things can get better.

Oh I've just noticed according to the Forums I am Vanilla!!! whoot I'm saved.


< Message edited by wervenom -- 1/11/2008 6:23:41 AM >

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 6:33:37 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		Male submissives have it harder in the context of the real world because it is against the typecasting roles that society has forced upon them and the day to day expectations. I have worked with many male submissives who were " shhh  I have to be type A but I really am driven to be this way"---so its a pretty common issue, you are not alone---yet one has to be true to themselves and in the circle of a good Domina, can find comfort, support and growth that will help them face the real world and accept their calling.
 
I wish you well, do not let what happens "out there" harden what happens in your heart.

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Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 6:44:30 AM   
topIrishsubm


Posts: 25
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline 		For men in particular, I think it is quiet understandable to be somewhat conflicted about being submissive. As a generic term it goes against what is traditionally expected of men, and as a concept it carries connotations of weakness. Not very manly! It did put me ill at ease at times. However, as I specifically experience my submission, I feel the ideological baggage that I previously associated with it, was really irrelevant. Being submissive makes me no less a man, and that’s when submission is at it’s most valuable. Knowing and understanding this value and being so fortunate to have an amazing Dominant has really helped me be comfortable with who I am.


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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 6:51:22 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I think in Western civilisation in particular, men AND women are expected to be strong, independent and NOT submissive.
It's very difficult in this age to be 'proud' about letting another control you.
There is also the misconception that a submissive in submissive in all things. As we all know, nothing could be further from the truth.
When I told my best friend, she thought I was insane; as I can be very bossy in certain situations.
I attempted to explain to her that mostly that is because I HAD to, but, I don't think she understands to this day. (it's been two and a half years since that talk)

PetPete...*lol*

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 9:25:26 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		DISCLAIMER:  the following focuses on non-sexual interactions of D/s, if you meant to discuss only the sexual aspect, this slave apologizes in advance, and please disregard her comments.
 
this slave was conditioned to submit since she popped out of the womb.  she wasn't trained to be independent, self-serving/absorbed/important, dominant over other humans, vain or materialistic.  she was taught blind obedience to those in authority over her~those providing for her.  it was an isolated rural setting, which proved to strengthen the discipline for this slave.  this slave thinks this training contributed greatly to the ease at which submission, and the acceptance of it within her, comes for her, and not just in the context of our M/s relationship.
 
it was expected of this slave to submit to other folks.  to parents first, then other elders, teachers, law enforcement, etc., and eventually to the "Husband" who would take over as the dominant influence(read:Owner) in this slave's life.  this slave was so very rarely put into situations, when being trained for adulthood, until the age of 16, for another adult to take perverse advantage of this slave's training to submit, that there literally were no talks about private places that if any tried to touch they were to be told no and report back---ANY adult was to be given immediate authority and obeyed.  however, as stated previously, interactions with others was strictly controlled...as was every other moment.  sun up to sun down, after all, they were both comfortably retired, "on the farm".
 
the times this slave has ever been asked to defend her submission has been to the offspring who were socialized early and often and also raised to participate in society independently with a very different background than this slave's.  also, occasionally here, when relating her own personal experience of submission, usually when someone assumes incorrectly either the intent of her post, or that there is a "one-true-way" that holds true for all who identify as submissive, sexually or otherwise.

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 9:56:02 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I would think it would be more difficult for a man to admit his submissive nature.  Even though in my observation men are submissive to life and situations just as often as we women are, society still has that mentality that men should be in charge.  As long as we believe that men should be in charge, then for men to admit they are happier as sub, it will be a harder road to travel.
Being defensive about being submissive is natural until you are comfortable in that role.  Being defensive is claiming your right to be who you are, until that part of you is so much a part of you it is no longer an issue.
Kyst

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 10:04:44 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My question is that you mention a current vanilla girlfriend that does not seem to understand your submissiveness. Did you know you were submissive when you got together this this girlfriend? If you knew you were submissive before you hooked up with your current, did you tell her of your submissiveness? If she wasn't understanding, and made you feel defensive, why are you seeing this person?

I thought about fishing in a vanilla pond for a mate several months ago, it would never occur to me not to mention my submissivness, and if someone wasn't attracted to me because of that, well they just were not right for me. I want to be who I am without qualifiers, that does not mean that I could never be happy in a vanilla relationship, but it does mean I must be who I am no matter what relationship I am in. No need to be defensive about that because I am secure in myself regardless of what other people call me or think of me as.

So if your current girlfriend doesn't accept you, perhaps you have a little responsibility in not informing her of your submissive nature before you involved her in your life. If you did involve a vanilla person without informing them of who you are, I really have very little sympathy for you and I do not think that you have the right to feel "defensive". Vanilla people have as much right to get their relational needs met as we do, and to have informed consent too.


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 10:28:36 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		My sub went through this and for a long time wore a "mask" of Dominance to hide his true nature, going so far as to label himself a Master. Needless to say once he got into the relationship with a submissive it was a fiery unhappy union for them both. He started suffering from anxiety, depression and was developing anger issues. None of which were his subs fault, it was his own for hiding behind that mask. One can label themselves one thing but your true nature has a way of peeking out when you do not expect it too and in ways that can be self destructive.

He has now accepted who he is and is very happy. I showed him that in order to be truly happy you have to be yourself. Not only has he embraced his submissive side, he has said he feels totally free of the weight that had been on his back for as long as he could remember. The typical "macho" man socializing he had recieved as a child was slowly choking the life out of him and it was causing him to take that out on others. He doesn't do that anymore. This didn't happen overnight it took over a year but he finally did it, we had our ups and downs but I stuck with him because I knew eventually he would find himself.

Do some soul searching and be sure of who you are and what it is you want from life. Once you figure that out you can start down the right path. Because when it comes down to it, only YOU can decide who you really are.

Good luck,

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 11:39:31 AM   
phoenixinchains


Posts: 2534
Joined: 4/5/2007
From: i live here
Status: offline 		life's too short, if you're figured yourself out, embrace it. if there's still a gut feeling that somethings isn't quite right, keep searching.  so says me, hehe,  good luck- phoenix

< Message edited by phoenixinchains -- 1/11/2008 11:40:37 AM >

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 11:47:42 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Defense about it not really.  For a long time i denied it even though i was born this way.  I did not want to admit it.  Why i don't know i just did not.  Now that i have embraced it i feel much better.  No i am not"out"to my family but my friends know.  Some of them think i am kinda strange but they accept it.  I never really had to defend my lifestyle if i had to i would.  Defensive about being submissive, not me it is just what i am.

Matt's littleone

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 3:07:11 PM   
SayaNereida


Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

So does/has anyone else found themselves being defensive in regards to their submission and if you once did but have learnt to mange it how so?


wervenom,

What do you mean when you say 'defensive'?
To whom?

Saya

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 3:51:54 PM   
MistressDollys


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline 		actually i feel more masculine and stronger when I submit. there's a pride in doing something for someone you share that emotional connection with.

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 4:01:09 PM   
wervenom


Posts: 10
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline 		First off. A lot of people have replied in regards to the difficulties for males to admit their submissive nature due to the conceived roles of men being in charge and in control. I was raised to be a blokey bloke (Aussie slang) so I guess that leads to part of it. In a perfect world there would be no you should be this or that.... the world ain't perfect.

Consider you’re submissive by nature and look to please, however it seems that what you’re meant to do to please is not be submissive. Can I have a white flag now.. please!

juliaoceania: I was quite open with her at the start of our relationship and she stated that she was curious and wanted to know more. These statements of curiosity have been put forth on every occasion that where I have talked to her about this part of myself but no action has been forth coming so to speak. So as time as past I have found myself once again doing my best to suppress my nature as this seems to be what she wants.  Things will be changing the process has begun.

SayaNereida: Defensive was the best word I could think of at the time to describe what I meant. As to whom, mostly myself as in I am Defending myself against submission, but in turn that leads to me being defensive against others in regards to it.  As I posted earlier:

quote:

ORIGINAL: wervenom

laurell3: No exactly, more things such is my nick itself and even my profile.... not exactly what you'd call inviting. In fact chosen specifically to be non-inviting. I guess in a way I'm holding with that old saying "The best Defense is a good Offense". The problem is while I know I'm doing it and it's not really what I want to do, I continue to do it. I have been lucky in that some people have seen through these defensive shields and have become good friends that I can talk to about BDSM without feeling guilty etc.







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We are who we are.

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RE: Defensive about being Submisive - 1/11/2008 4:01:53 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I would have called it defensive, but until I felt completely comfortable with who I am, I was hesitant to share it with others.  Now, most people who know me know I serve a Master.  As for those who feel the need to remark their negative opinions about it, they simply hear from me less, since I prefer to surround myself with those who want to participate in my happiness.

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