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RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 1:01:54 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

If they are ok with it they don't need the blow by blow details, but I at least would like to know if their partner is open for a short meeting for coffee, ect.  That's when I hear the part about the couple living separate lives. 
Kyst


In my case, I did not want to meet for coffee or anything.  It would have been too disruptive to my peace of mind.  Some of us out there really don't want to know.

It's not so much the case with me now, but it was then.  I was not in any position to handle it well and he was not about to put me in such a situation as it would have only hurt me.  If other girls chose to not continue with him as a result, that was their issue. 

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 6:40:03 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat
ok...my hubby and i are poly.  we have been for 10+ years now.  his idea is that we each do our own thing, and he doesnt want a single detail from me, although i ask him how his time with the g/f went.

he knows some about me and what i do because he snoops.  then gets angry.  i offer to tell but he doesnt wish to hear it.  so...how does that work?  i offer but he refuses then gets mad because i do things a bit differently than he does?

kitten



this sounds like the gander wanted to have fun so agree the goose can play too, but the gander doesn't really want the goose out playing with anyone else



i'd agree totally if i hadnt been the one to bring up poly.     he's an oddity, he really is. 

in the meantime, i have Daddy and another fellow that i get to see occasionally, and wolf has his g/f.  whom he alternately loves and loathes, and tells me "i couldnt ever marry anyone else because they wouldnt put up with my bullshit".  mm-hmm.  that one, he got correct.

kitten

(in reply to darchChylde)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 6:43:49 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macslittleimp

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat


ok...my hubby and i are poly.  we have been for 10+ years now.  his idea is that we each do our own thing, and he doesnt want a single detail from me, although i ask him how his time with the g/f went.

he knows some about me and what i do because he snoops.  then gets angry.  i offer to tell but he doesnt wish to hear it.  so...how does that work?  i offer but he refuses then gets mad because i do things a bit differently than he does?

kitten



I have to agree with my lil darch one on this...  Even though I could babble on regarding psychological issues that could be causing his anger I don't personally know your husband so that isn't fair.  The bottom line though?  He really has no right to be angry for things he "finds" while snooping as though you are hiding especially considering you are more than willing to tell him what he wants to know.  Those are his personal issues and unless it becomes a problem in your relationship it's something he needs to learn to deal with by himself.  He has consented in being poly, has had no problem with it for the past 10+ years, so unless he's ready to renegotiate he really doesn't have a leg to stand on.

P.S. ~ maybe he's jealous you are having more fun than he is? lol


short answer....he's a goob.     i love him, so i put up with his silliness.   and i agree with you, he doesnt have a right to be angry, but angry he gets nevertheless.

he is who he is, and my choices are to accept him as he is or leave.  the relationship is cracked, definitely.  so far the cracks arent breaking it entirely.

kitten

(in reply to Macslittleimp)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 6:46:05 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

this sounds like the gander wanted to have fun so agree the goose can play too, but the gander doesn't really want the goose out playing with anyone else



beat me to that response,Darch ...

honesty above all..if you cant handle it, get out..

an ugly truth is much better than a pretty lie, in my book.


i absolutely agree.  which is why i tell the truth unless i'm specifically asked not to say a thing.

kitten

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 6:50:47 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

What it did make Me think of is this: If a person is ignorant (pls see definition of the word as lack of education/knowledge) of what their partner is doing, can they really give consent? If they have no idea of what's going on, how can they truly agree that it is ok for their partner to go out and engage in the activity?


For example, there are two people in a relationship. One person wants to go out and explore BDSM. The other has no idea of what that is. After whatever discussion ensues, the partner gives consent to the other, but doesn't want to know anything about it.


Is that really giving consent?[/color]



I think that one can consent to have an open relationship where further details and information are not needed or even desired. Perhaps that is how some people deal with potential jealousy or they feel their trust level is that high.

Not the best comparison perhaps but think of it this way. I don't need to know anything about medieval and renaissance music to agree that Tom can be in a chorus or a band, I don't want to know about anything they do unless it will interfere with us and our plans. When they moved practice to our place he talked to me first and I talked with Fox too and then we decided as a family it was ok but that's only because it directly affected us.

Some people may not believe that their partner exploring BDSM will directly affect them so why do they need more details?

I'm not claiming I fully agree or grok that because I'm not in an open relationship. I have a poly family so that comes with knowing some details and in our household meeting potentials and giving an "ok" for that person to become involved.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 8:52:31 AM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl

To many times we aren't ok with whatever but feel like if we say no then we're going to loose the Dom that we have grown to respect, trust, and sometimes even love among the many other things that we feel.

i know there are plenty of things that i've said yes to, that i'm scared to death of, plenty of things that i've let go way past my limits and then later have to find a way to get past any issues i've had from it alone because the fear of well you didn't safe word and you didn't tell me it wasn't ok would come up. 

It's all in the mindset, it's all in the communication (or lack thereof) between the two people involved.  So, to answer your question:  it does happen, and darchChylde got right to the point with his statement.


But really - that's the fault, and the problem, of the one giving false consent.

Yes, all partners should watch out for one another's feelings (to what degree depends on their agreements) - however, if my partner says they're OK with something, I value their honesty enough that I believe them.  If they're lying to me, and their feelings get hurt, that's *their* problem.

(in reply to meticulousgirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 10:24:09 AM   
WhipLash803


Posts: 16
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline
I believe there is such a thing as "consensual ignorance", and that a great many people are consensually ignorant about a great many things.
 
John
[/quote]

This is a really excellent quote and I might add that most of those same people are oblivious to the extent of their "consensual ignorance"....so you start to wonder pretty quickly are they intentually remaining uninformed because they don't WANT to know or are they so (you pick the discription) that they can't figure out what questions to ask or how to process and repond to the answers.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 10:25:27 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Aye.. and believe me it is a much safer choice to step away if their mate declines a meeting.  Because if there is no real agreement which can be verified in some way, then they would be walking into potential problems down the road. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie


In my case, I did not want to meet for coffee or anything.  It would have been too disruptive to my peace of mind.  Some of us out there really don't want to know.

It's not so much the case with me now, but it was then.  I was not in any position to handle it well and he was not about to put me in such a situation as it would have only hurt me.  If other girls chose to not continue with him as a result, that was their issue. 


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A question on consent - 1/12/2008 12:13:15 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Aye.. and believe me it is a much safer choice to step away if their mate declines a meeting.  Because if there is no real agreement which can be verified in some way, then they would be walking into potential problems down the road. 
Kyst


I understand your reasons for playing it safe to avoid problems.  There are many levels in which we can take the safe road; this is just one of them.  I respect your right to do so, but was offering a perspective from "the other side" which may help others understand why a mate may not want to meet.   Again, from my perspective (and my Master's also, as I came to learn), if someone chose to leave as a result, that was their right and their issue.  But there are reasons the mate may not want to be involved, and those should be respected, too.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 8:26:27 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I wanted to pop back in and thank everyone for their responses.  The 'consentual ignorance' idea was, in fact, a very good quote.  I think the concept of wanting to be ignorant, in some cases, might be what some would prefer.  Personally, I'm not the type so while I would understand it in others, I certainly wouldn't accept it for Myself.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 8:48:44 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If he wanted to bottom to sensation play I wouldn't be able to top him. In that case I would have no problem with him finding an experienced top as long as I didn't have to meet her, hear any details, and he wasn't having sex with her. And no deliberately visible marks please. Now that leaves room for a lot; bondage, electric play, paddling, etc.

I do know that most tops he might approach would want to meet me and my desire not to meet them would cause him difficulty finding someone. I understand this but I stand firm. It would cause me distress to have to meet and listen to details so I wouldn't ever go there. My parameters are my own and only I get to chose them.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 9:01:45 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I can see that some people might engage in the concept of  "consentual ignorance".  I remember when I was married, I knew my mate was fooling around and though I KNEW it.. and I didn't care, he was under the assumption I was blissfully ignorant.  He believed he was pulling one over on me.  I was amused by his complacency.  Sometimes people choose to be ignorant and that is fine.  I chose not to mention I knew I had no feelings for my ex husband.  I was commited and nothing more.
But, I have seen situations where the man said his wife knew but perferred to remain ignorant, and then seen her face if she runs across it, and observed the hurt because clearly for her HE had consented to her remaining ignorant, while she had assumed he had given up on his desire to stray.
In that case everyone got hurt. 
I perfer my consent to be in the open so that no misconceptions arise.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Aye.. and believe me it is a much safer choice to step away if their mate declines a meeting.  Because if there is no real agreement which can be verified in some way, then they would be walking into potential problems down the road. 
Kyst


I understand your reasons for playing it safe to avoid problems.  There are many levels in which we can take the safe road; this is just one of them.  I respect your right to do so, but was offering a perspective from "the other side" which may help others understand why a mate may not want to meet.   Again, from my perspective (and my Master's also, as I came to learn), if someone chose to leave as a result, that was their right and their issue.  But there are reasons the mate may not want to be involved, and those should be respected, too.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 9:10:56 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The 'consentual ignorance' idea was, in fact, a very good quote. 


Thanks.  Jay Wiseman asked if he could use it... with proper attribution, of course.  ;)
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 9:11:09 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Great post, ownedgirlie, and this was the best line for me.  It's like charity that does more for the donor than the recipient.  If someone says "OK, but I don't know details," then the only reason why we would provide details at that point would be to satisfy OURSELVES.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I think sometimes we insist on involving someone who doesnt want to be involved, just to make ourselves feel good.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 9:26:36 AM   
knotslandingdom


Posts: 23
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

ok...my hubby and i are poly.  we have been for 10+ years now.  his idea is that we each do our own thing, and he doesnt want a single detail from me, although i ask him how his time with the g/f went.

he knows some about me and what i do because he snoops.  then gets angry.  i offer to tell but he doesnt wish to hear it.  so...how does that work?  i offer but he refuses then gets mad because i do things a bit differently than he does?

kitten


This is also known as Swinging and most couples who enjoy swinging single, as in not as a couple, usually enjoy sharing their experiences with each other afterward.  It can be a huge turn-on to hear what each other did and the more detail the better.  Open communication is usually the best course of actuon with swinging.  But, if it's working for you to keep it all hush-hush, then by all means, contunue to enjoy.

(in reply to adoracat)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 9:49:06 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		John, I can see why.  It's a very good term.

There's also a really good point in the above where the situation is described as the other players wanting to ensure consent is given.  Yes, in that case, it is for the other party's satisfaction.  Finding out for yourself that consent has been given, rather than just taking someone's word for it, puts that person more at ease.  It may be selfish of Me to want to know up front whether or not a person is allowed to play.  In the long run, I think I'm saving Myself potential drama, hurt feelings, and other things that might be more complication than I want in My life.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to knotslandingdom)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: A question on consent - 1/13/2008 11:02:53 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Great post, ownedgirlie, and this was the best line for me.  It's like charity that does more for the donor than the recipient.  If someone says "OK, but I don't know details," then the only reason why we would provide details at that point would be to satisfy OURSELVES.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I think sometimes we insist on involving someone who doesnt want to be involved, just to make ourselves feel good.



Thank you, LaM, and I agree that level of self service applies to many facets of life.


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 57
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