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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/11/2008 9:43:17 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I think a better question would be whether the Democrats can keep Blacks on board after promising them the moon for the last 60 years and not delivering.


Exactly.


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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/11/2008 10:40:10 PM   
Bound2One


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quote:

It is... will the Black community support one of their own, with a chance to win, win big, when the time counts?


This should depend solely on whether they agree with Obama's politics or not.  Not on skin color. 

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/11/2008 10:45:23 PM   
Bound2One


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quote:


BTW... for strictly cultural and historical reasons, for this county and its future, I believe Senator Obama's being the Democrat nominee is more important than Mrs.Clinton being it. Though both, by any account of history would be huge.


Is this why we elect a president?  Cultural and historical reasons?  I prefer voting for whoever I believe is the strongest candidate and then allowing that person to hopefully make a mark in history and our culture by being an outstanding leader for our country. 

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/11/2008 10:57:21 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		I'd prefer a truck driver over Clinton or Obama.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 12:45:37 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


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Status: offline 		that you have to ask the so-called Black leader whom say they speak/represent the entire Black community.

so far haven't heard one peep from Sharpton and/or Jesse Jackson in which candidate they're tossing their support to. i suppose when it gets close to the IL primary, then Chicago might hear something from Jesse. for right now, it's been really quiet from Rainbow PUSH headquarters.


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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 12:51:44 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


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Status: offline 		who is "black enough" these days?  i'm sick and tired of hearing that coined phrase especially from blacks since there's no universal definition to describe what or how one can determine that someone is "black enough". 

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 1:03:42 AM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings fatdomdaddy,

not sure, can whites get behind huckabee or giuliani or ron paul? or women get behind hillary clinton? i still don't get what is acceptable about making that kind of bullshit assumption about black people. is there a "white leader" for the "white community"? not last i checked. why is there this idea then that the "black community" needs a "black leader"? black people are not some seamless monolithic entity who all think the same, last i checked. heck, there are even *gasp* black republicans in the world! i'm sure they're not going to be first in line to vote for him.

is he likely to win if a whole bunch of blacks don't vote for him? maybe not. who knows? there's going to be one republican nominee and one democratic nominee, and that's what we know for sure. wait and see. you've already decided that he can't win if the "black community" does not get behind him - i seriously doubt there's a pinpointed "black community" to do so, and i find such a reductionist category stupid and pointless to begin with. it presumes that somehow obama must share an agenda with the "black community" on the basis of shared skin color - unlike having a shared religious belief, as jfk did with the catholics, which could at least imply some shared morals and ideas about different issues, i don't really get where the logic is in presuming that obama and "blacks" must agree or band together because they happen to share a similar skin tone. i don't really see what the point is in this thread other than to speculate because it seems you've already made your decision about the exact conditions under which it might be possible for obama to win. so, i don't know. come back when the democrats have made their decision on who to nominate and tell us.  

respectfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 1/12/2008 1:11:04 AM >

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 6:43:46 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
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Status: offline 		Now I can discuss it better from that view, but when you isolate it to people should support someone because of race, then it is racist. Obama needs support from the various sections, and he has it. Unfortunately Jesse and Al have painted him as somewhat of a traitor to his race, and this is similar to the rhetoric that other racist organizations put out about white candidates that they deem not white enough. It is playing the race card, and Obama is transcending it pretty well, but you are correct that Jesse and Al are leading their sheep to not follow him. This is disappointing, since a culture such as the black community needs to reshape it's mentality to break the social chains, but they have a few leaders that are enforcing racist views and victim attitudes and harming that community.

Obama also needs to gain a little more in other sections, such as white females, as that not only adds more to his support, but diminishes Hillary's main support group.

I am an independent conservative, and likely not to support Obama in a general election, unless one of the Non-Cons is the Republican nominee. While I may disagree with him on some of the issues, looking at his record he has been consistant on his positions, and that shows integrity. I can respect the man, and if he was elected, be proud he was my President (barring him making any stupid mistakes while in there, but that goes for anyone).

In my eyes the Kerry backing was not a great thing, as I have nothing but hard feelings for Kerry.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 7:08:03 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

this is similar to the rhetoric that other racist organizations put out about white candidates that they deem not white enough.



        Examples please.  Unless you are equating Jesse and Al with the KKK, I don't think I've ever encountered any such rhetoric among other racial groups.  I certainly haven't heard it from the heads of national organizations who get lots of face time in the media.

      I think you just pulled that statement out of your ass.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 7:59:22 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

this is similar to the rhetoric that other racist organizations put out about white candidates that they deem not white enough.



       Examples please.  Unless you are equating Jesse and Al with the KKK, I don't think I've ever encountered any such rhetoric among other racial groups.  I certainly haven't heard it from the heads of national organizations who get lots of face time in the media.

     I think you just pulled that statement out of your ass.




Agreed.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 8:03:42 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
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Status: offline 		How about a Gorean truck driver?

Imagine that chills that would run up some Congressional spines at the thought of being held accountable by a President... No political correctness, no bullshit claims of what is fair, just free men and free women facing the call of the drummer.

That's worth making into a Saturday morning cartoon.

Bull

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'd prefer a truck driver over Clinton or Obama.


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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 12:35:22 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
for right now, it's been really quiet from Rainbow PUSH headquarters.


Right there with my point.

They have the chance to PUSH for something monumental and all we hear from them is crickets.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 12:39:21 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

i don't really see what the point is in this thread other than to speculate because it seems you've already made your decision about the exact conditions under which it might be possible for obama to win. 



That is exactly the point of the thread.


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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 2:56:03 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		Actually it is an opinion, not a statement, and only those that are antagonostic in a discussion would consider it pulled out of someone's ass. Yes I am comparing it to the White Supremist groups that go after white candidates sometimes. If you do not like what I post, there is this little red hand called hide that you can use. Likely to be more productive than anything else. Now you probably already know where I feel that your opinion about what I say can be put.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

this is similar to the rhetoric that other racist organizations put out about white candidates that they deem not white enough.



       Examples please.  Unless you are equating Jesse and Al with the KKK, I don't think I've ever encountered any such rhetoric among other racial groups.  I certainly haven't heard it from the heads of national organizations who get lots of face time in the media.

     I think you just pulled that statement out of your ass.


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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 3:48:57 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Seriously. So he's black and Democrat. I'm sensing you have a problem with both of these things.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....I figured it'd take at least 8 posts before someone got indignant about a reasonable, unbiased post that HAPPENED to ask a question regarding politics and the color of someone's skin!

Ya'll never cease to amaze me.

(The funniest part about all of it is....it's always the white people who are the most indignant).

< Message edited by Griswold -- 1/12/2008 4:01:03 PM >

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 6:54:51 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		I sort of expected it Griswold.

Mrs. Clinton's supporters are pissed off that Obama dare try to win.

There is also nothing wrong at all for Black Americans to take pride in Senator Obama's run. Much of the ethnic knowledge of Blacks in the New World was stolen from them when they were sold into slavery. It is lost forever so it is an easy allowance to allow a little racial pride to peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa in the United States. I think they have more than earned it. And no, it is not a double standard and yes, white pride is a racist notion.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 7:43:08 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		It is a double standard. Taking pride in one's heritage, whether you are white, black, or purple, is a good thing. I see no problem with it, but based upon the current system that some in the Black community judge by, they need to learn that they will be judged by the same standard. If you are a religious person, it is "judge not; lest ye be judged by your own standard".

When Obama first started talking about the possibility of running long ago, I read up on some of the things he said. It did not start coming into my mind frequently that he was black, until the black community starting making comments about it. I think he should be seen for the person and politician he is, regardless of race. The Man he is does not need to prop himself up with the sacrifices of his forefathers, he is very accomplished on his own.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 8:19:51 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		Orion,

The simple fact remains...

Obama cannot win unless he has the overwhelming support of the Black voter, regardless of the reason they are voting for him. BUT... If Black voters do support him in overwhelming numbers,  he wins the Democrat Nomination for President of the United States.

Why is that so hard for people to comprehend?

It's about the numbers, not the skin color.

AND...

He is a far better candidate in every way than Mrs. Clinton.  Obama is a self made person. Mrs. Clinton married up.

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 1/12/2008 8:25:25 PM >

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/12/2008 8:34:41 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Orion,

The simple fact remains...

Obama cannot win unless he has the overwhelming support of the Black voter, regardless of the reason they are voting for him. BUT... If Black voters do support him in overwhelming numbers,  he wins the Democrat Nomination for President of the United States.

Why is that so hard for people to comprehend?


It is the way that you presented it, that threw some more glaring in some people's faces. He needs substantial support from large segments of every voting block, not just the black one, as I have pointed out already.

quote:


It's about the numbers, not the skin color.


I understand the numbers, but you are the one that worded it in such a way, that it seemed all about skin color.

quote:


AND...

He is a far better candidate in every way than Mrs. Clinton.  Obama is a self made person. Mrs. Clinton married up.


I completely agree. When the race pimps like Jesse and Al continue to act like they do, then they truly show they do not support their culture, but just their power within their culture. A friend of mine said that more and more of the people in his neighborhood are not listening as much to Jesse and Al, I just do not believe their power will slip enough in this election.

We are in agreement that Obama is an exceptional Man. I just do not agree with his political views alot, but this is an instance where you can respect someone and still disagree with them.

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RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Cathol... - 1/13/2008 6:26:34 AM   
xBullx


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Status: offline 		-fast reply-

It would just seem to me that the reason to vote for a candidate should always be ability and qualification.

It sure would suck if we ended up making this election about equal oportunity versus gaining the best President and in doing so pinned so much hope on Obama simply to conquer some racial barrier; what if then he got elected and in the end his preformance made even our worst ever President look fantastic. Just ponder that notion for a minute.

The fellow seems great at times and then not so much at other times. I would still prefer we elected a president on his ability to represent and lead our nation, and at times the entire free world. His experience is not the most diverse; his response to certain things demonstrate as much. His passion is awesome, I really think he cares. Is he ready for this job yet?

Remember the Congressman represents his district and is that voice in Washington. The Senator represents his State and is that voice in Washington. The President represents the Country and is our voice across the world. To simply say yeah but he would be better then Bush has been would be rather short sighted and limiting in scope. Shouldn't we start demanding the best instead of settling for just good enough.

I'm a Indep-Rep-Dem-American; it would seem out of 300 million of us we should be able to find one worthy person for the job. But therein lies the challange yet again.

To be honest; I don't like a single one of the canidates. It seems every election cycle it get's harder to discover someone suited for the job. Maybe I'm just to cynical anymore.

-shrugs-

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 40
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