Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK?

Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (Full Version)

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FatDomDaddy -> Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 2:43:17 PM)
In 1960 Democrats Irish Catholics and Democrat Catholics in general got behind the Kennedy's race to the Democrat Nominations they were in many ways a solid block of support and felt that the importance of getting the nomination outweighed the candidates policies and content of his message. In the general election, a strong vote among Republican Catholics who crossed over, putting the importance again on having one of their own in the White House. It was surely a contributing factor to the victory. I cannot see a a Black nominee win the Presidential Nomination in the Democrat Party unless and until one gets the kind of blind support from his/her folks like Kennedy from his. So my question is... With a viable and strong candidate like Obama, why aren't Black Democrats rallying to his standard like Catholics rallied in 1960.

Owner59 -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 2:52:19 PM)
You`re question assumes that they`re not,or as much as the Catholics did for JFK. And he`s also half white. Should the people of European Christian descent, "rally" to him too.? What does it matter,anyway?

CuriousLord -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 3:35:14 PM)
Seriously. So he's black and Democrat. I'm sensing you have a problem with both of these things.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 4:04:20 PM)
being black, my pov is most in the black community still blindly follows the endorsement of Jeese and Sharpton especially here in Chicago. many are "told" which candidates to vote for. for example back when Harold Washington was running for mayor, the black voters would "punch 10" for the straight Dem ticket. that being said - these two prominent black leaders clearly don't speak for me or whom i'm choosing to vote for come February. can i get behind Obama? certainly. i like his stance on certain issues however that in way will be the deciding influence to vote for him.

xBullx -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 4:20:28 PM)
Ok, tell me we aren't voting for someone simply based on the skin tone the light of day exposes to our naked eye. I would have called it ridiculous to vote for Kennedy simply because he Catholic... I'll do the same in this case; shouldn't we actually start voting for a President that we would think best serves the entire country and is a shining example of what we think mosts embodies the qualities and abilities we see as most important for the leader of the United States... If being black is important, let's get a better suited American that happens to be black; Colin Powell seems to have gotten everything right in the past. Why in God's name haven't we yet asked him to be our future? Couldn't we just start acting responsible as citizens versus doing all this impulsive shit for the wrong reasons?

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 6:04:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx I would have called it ridiculous to vote for Kennedy simply because he Catholic... And yet... And yet, hundreds of thousands of Catholics did just that in the democrat primaries of 1960. It was a voting block that the candidates at the time couldn't move and it helped propel JFK to the nomination. Then in the general election, the same thing happened with Republican Catholics crossing party lines. If a black candidate every hopes to win a presidential nomination, he will need the full force of the Black minority behind him just as Kennedy had the full force of the Catholic minority behind him. Can black voters rally around Obama's standard? If they did, Mrs Clinton wouldn't stand a chance. But polls are showing at the moment, that the black minority is very split even though they have a very viable candidate in Senator Obama. My point isn't... "is it a good thing" or "should they".... It is... will the Black community support one of their own, with a chance to win, win big, when the time counts? Obama has gotten here with huge white support and he leads Mrs.Clinton in polls among white male Democrats. This is huge for our country, this is a watershed moment in America. Should Barack Obama get the full force of the Black community behind him, he will be the Democrat Party's nominee for President of the United States.

angelikaJ -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 6:07:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy In 1960 Democrats Irish Catholics and Democrat Catholics in general got behind the Kennedy's race to the Democrat Nominations they were in many ways a solid block of support and felt that the importance of getting the nomination outweighed the candidates policies and content of his message. In the general election, a strong vote among Republican Catholics who crossed over, putting the importance again on having one of their own in the White House. It was surely a contributing factor to the victory. I cannot see a a Black nominee win the Presidential Nomination in the Democrat Party unless and until one gets the kind of blind support from his/her folks like Kennedy from his. So my question is... With a viable and strong candidate like Obama, why aren't Black Democrats rallying to his standard like Catholics rallied in 1960. Your recollection is a bit off: his being a catholic was not in his favor. It was not until he gave a speech to the Greater Houston Ministrial Association (a group of protestant ministers) that the country saw him as capable of separating himself from his faith. "But let me stress again that these are my views. For contrary to common newspaper usage, I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for president, who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 6:09:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl for example back when Harold Washington was running for mayor, the black voters would "punch 10" for the straight Dem ticket. that being said - If Black voters do this for Obama, he's the Dem nominee. The questions is will the leaders go with the white woman over him?

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 6:15:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Your recollection is a bit off: his being a catholic was not in his favor. It was within the Catholic Community, which at that time and still is, traditionally stong in the Democrat Party and which is, what I am talking about. Without the huge support of that community the Houston speech would not have mattered. If Catholics were as split in 1960 as Blacks are at this point in the process, Kennedy would have never gotten the nomination. Obama needs full support of Black voters to beat Mrs. Clinton and right now he is not getting it. But If he does get it in Michigan, South Carolina, if he gets it on Super Tuesday... he will clobber Hilary.

oreogirl -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 6:28:40 PM)
It is interesting because Barack Obama is a candidate who happens to be Black and not "the Black candidate" that you are asking this question. His candidacy and support should not be just because he is Black, but because he is the best candidate for the Democratic Party, which I believe he is. You ask if the leaders will go for Hillary over Obama. When you say leaders, who are you referring to? I say they can choose whomever they wish to support, because they have their own ideas and experiences to influence their vote. They are different from me, and the leaders of the Black community in Altanta are different from the leaders of the Black community in NYC. The leaders in LA are different from the leaders in San Francisco. IMO everyone should vote for the one who they think will best represent the interests of the country and its people, not the special interest groups who cater to a very select group of people.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 6:56:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oreogirl IMO everyone should vote for the one who they think will best represent the interests of the country and its people, not the special interest groups who cater to a very select group of people. A nice sentiment, but it doesn't change the fact, that without overwhelming support from the Black community, Obama cannot beat Mrs Clinton. With it, America gets it's first Presidential of African descent. Without it he loses. It's pretty simple math. BTW... for strictly cultural and historical reasons, for this county and its future, I believe Senator Obama's being the Democrat nominee is more important than Mrs.Clinton being it. Though both, by any account of history would be huge.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 7:49:57 PM)
If someone were white, and this were a white candidate, and they said this, wouldn't they be yelled down for being racist? So what is the difference? Stand behind him because he is Black or best suited for the job? One of their own? Who's own? Damn if this does not fit the fucking bill for racism, then color me purple. Are you black? quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx I would have called it ridiculous to vote for Kennedy simply because he Catholic... And yet... And yet, hundreds of thousands of Catholics did just that in the democrat primaries of 1960. It was a voting block that the candidates at the time couldn't move and it helped propel JFK to the nomination. Then in the general election, the same thing happened with Republican Catholics crossing party lines. If a black candidate every hopes to win a presidential nomination, he will need the full force of the Black minority behind him just as Kennedy had the full force of the Catholic minority behind him. Can black voters rally around Obama's standard? If they did, Mrs Clinton wouldn't stand a chance. But polls are showing at the moment, that the black minority is very split even though they have a very viable candidate in Senator Obama. My point isn't... "is it a good thing" or "should they".... It is... will the Black community support one of their own, with a chance to win, win big, when the time counts? Obama has gotten here with huge white support and he leads Mrs.Clinton in polls among white male Democrats. This is huge for our country, this is a watershed moment in America. Should Barack Obama get the full force of the Black community behind him, he will be the Democrat Party's nominee for President of the United States.

popeye1250 -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 7:51:18 PM)
I think a better question would be whether the Democrats can keep Blacks on board after promising them the moon for the last 60 years and not delivering. What ever happened to that "war on poverty?" Of course it'll be "different" this time, won't it?

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 7:51:49 PM)
Not because they are the best person for the job, but because they would make history? So making history is the top thing we look for in a President? This is a practical joke post right? quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: oreogirl IMO everyone should vote for the one who they think will best represent the interests of the country and its people, not the special interest groups who cater to a very select group of people. A nice sentiment, but it doesn't change the fact, that without overwhelming support from the Black community, Obama cannot beat Mrs Clinton. With it, America gets it's first Presidential of African descent. Without it he loses. It's pretty simple math. BTW... for strictly cultural and historical reasons, for this county and its future, I believe Senator Obama's being the Democrat nominee is more important than Mrs.Clinton being it. Though both, by any account of history would be huge.

TheHeretic -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 7:55:31 PM)
Larry Elder had a few choice quotes in his column today. Jackson felt Barack Obama insufficiently critical, and said, "(Obama) needs to stop acting like he's white." Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson's soul mate, also sounded alarms against Obama, saying, "Just because you're our color doesn't make you our kind." Full article I don't think Obama has the experience for the job, but I don't think he's the worst option either. Quite frankly, if he starts reaching out too heavily to the people who let Jesse and Al tell them how to vote, he'll only go lower on my list.

popeye1250 -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 8:06:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Larry Elder had a few choice quotes in his column today. Jackson felt Barack Obama insufficiently critical, and said, "(Obama) needs to stop acting like he's white." Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson's soul mate, also sounded alarms against Obama, saying, "Just because you're our color doesn't make you our kind." Full article I don't think Obama has the experience for the job, but I don't think he's the worst option either. Quite frankly, if he starts reaching out too heavily to the people who let Jesse and Al tell them how to vote, he'll only go lower on my list. See? I told you, he's not "Black" enough!

FangsNfeet -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 9:01:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy With a viable and strong candidate like Obama, why aren't Black Democrats rallying to his standard like Catholics rallied in 1960. Where was all the Catholic support for John Kerry eight years ago? Times have changed. More people are actually reading the book rather than just looking at its cover. At any rate, Obama knows that Jackson and Sharpton bring more contraversy then positivity to his campaign. Rather than being rallied and held high, he most likely made a smart political move by asking Jessie Jackson to be quiet. After all, Obama just wants to be seen as another canidate and not turn the election into a racial ordeal. Obama, more than likely, has alot of silent support from the Black Democratic community and keeps it that way for a reason. Anyhow, let's not forget Operahs full support for Obama.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 9:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf If someone were white, and this were a white candidate, and they said this, wouldn't they be yelled down for being racist? So what is the difference? Look again... That is not the point, The point is, he cannot win without the total support of th black community but if he has it, he becomes the nominee for the Democrat Party. A White Democrat in a National election NEEDS Black Voters to win. This thread isn't about the WHY it is about the CAN and IF. Obama has a huge white support base and leads in poll of white male Democrats over Mrs. Clinton. Black voters can put himn over the top. The Question is will they???

popeye1250 -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 9:40:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf If someone were white, and this were a white candidate, and they said this, wouldn't they be yelled down for being racist? So what is the difference? Look again... That is not the point, The point is, he cannot win without the total support of th black community but if he has it, he becomes the nominee for the Democrat Party. A White Democrat in a National election NEEDS Black Voters to win. This thread isn't about the WHY it is about the CAN and IF. Obama has a huge white support base and leads in poll of white male Democrats over Mrs. Clinton. Black voters can put himn over the top. The Question is will they??? Ah,...correct me if I'm wrong but Obama is half "white."

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Can blacks get behind Obama like the Irish & Catholics did for JFK? (1/11/2008 9:41:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Quite frankly, if he starts reaching out too heavily to the people who let Jesse and Al tell them how to vote, he'll only go lower on my list. My question is... Why would they keep the sticking with Jessie and Al when a new and better option is open? And for the people who don't think race, religion or ethnic back round do not play a part in elections from dog catcher to President, you must not be paying attention. Partisan core constituencies are a must have in a primary election. You cannot win unless you have one

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