Experience in protocol (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 6:11:33 PM)

Greetings to T/those who would take the time to read and respond.  I would like to thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

The holidays are over and it is time for the regular routine to resume.  One of the things that I am refocusing on is picking up My submissive's lessons in protocol. 

Like any other form of training (work, school, etc.), after a while, there are certain things that the instructor almost considers second nature.  They've been doing it so long that they forget what it is like to be new and just starting out.  I have a concern that I might fall into this trap when training My boy.  I think there are occassions where I almost expect him to know things, because to Me, they are the status quo.

So, give Me some reminders.  What do you consider the basics in protocol?  What things have you been doing so long, that you almost expect them?  Where do you make your beginnings with those who are just starting in the lifestyle?  What has become such a "given" for you, that you are surprised when your submissive doesn't know it?

Thanks in advance for your answers.




realtuffdom -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 6:27:10 PM)

If I remember correctly, you are supposed to use both flashlights while guiding in an airplane, or it might crash into a wall.




LadyPact -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 6:29:24 PM)

<chuckles>

Brat.




MistressOfGa -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 6:43:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Greetings to T/those who would take the time to read and respond.  I would like to thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

The holidays are over and it is time for the regular routine to resume.  One of the things that I am refocusing on is picking up My submissive's lessons in protocol. 

Like any other form of training (work, school, etc.), after a while, there are certain things that the instructor almost considers second nature.  They've been doing it so long that they forget what it is like to be new and just starting out.  I have a concern that I might fall into this trap when training My boy.  I think there are occassions where I almost expect him to know things, because to Me, they are the status quo.

So, give Me some reminders.  What do you consider the basics in protocol?  What things have you been doing so long, that you almost expect them?  Where do you make your beginnings with those who are just starting in the lifestyle?  What has become such a "given" for you, that you are surprised when your submissive doesn't know it?

Thanks in advance for your answers.



Calling me Ma'am
Not yelling from the other room when he wants me
Opening doors for me (Believe it or not, some forget!)
Helping me with my coat
Making coffee before waking me
Asking permission to sleep in my bed
Asking permission to go some place
Asking permission to climax (A Must!!)
 
I will add more when I think of them <s> But these are right off the top of my head




BotanicalMiss -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 6:50:33 PM)

I don't know if these things are considered protocol per se, but there are a lot of little things that I expect and teach immediately.... walking on my right side with his left hand in the small of my back, opening all doors including the car whether I'm getting in or out, lighting my cigarettes, making sure I have a hot cup of coffee or sold soda near at hand, carrying packages and my coat when we're out shopping, taking my coat and purse and putting them away when we get home and then removing my shoes or boots and putting them in their place, sitting on the floor when we watch tv until he's given permission to join me on the furniture, the way I like meals served and cleaned up afterwards, how I expect him to be dressed or undressed depending on where we are. As I said, I'm not sure if these things are considered protocol or just expected behaviors... or if they're one and the same. But there's my 2 cents. Wishing much happiness to you and yours.




MistressFaye1 -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 7:06:11 PM)

For those that lack manners, that is the starting point.  As stated by the Ladies above, manners! manners! manners!  Then decide on the things that are important to you for him to learn how to do. Whether it's from a service standard or your sexual pleasures (if you have that relationship).  These should include---to be on the safe side, how to address you, approach you, any routine or rituals you want performed, etc.

Some submissives have had other Mistresses and tend to get use to one way and they bring certain things with them that are ingrained.  There may be things that you want done differently or not at all. 

Strange as it may seem---teaching gentlemanly (is that a word?) is the order of the day in some cases.




LadyPact -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 7:09:04 PM)

Botanica, thank you for your reply.  Many of the things you listed I already have in place.  The car door, absolutely.  Lighting cigarettes, I think I've become lax on because My boy doesn't smoke (My issue).  I admit to having to remind him about My soda.  (A consant for Me.)  The next few catagories, carrying packages, etc., are firm.  The furniture has to be worked on.  (He sits at My feet in the same room, but otherwise, it's a toss up.)  Due to My tastes, meals served is a case by case basis.

Thank you for your time to respond.




LadyHathor -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 7:21:32 PM)

Drawing the bath and rinsing you with a silver pitcher
Brushing Your hair precisely 100 times every Sunday evening at 9
Having Your drink ready at 5
Presenting himself for Your approval kneeling every morning after You receive Your coffee
Bringing the hairbrush for the morning 10 strokes ( on his bum not Your hair)

 




LadyPact -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 7:38:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

Drawing the bath and rinsing you with a silver pitcher
Brushing Your hair precisely 100 times every Sunday evening at 9
Having Your drink ready at 5
Presenting himself for Your approval kneeling every morning after You receive Your coffee
Bringing the hairbrush for the morning 10 strokes ( on his bum not Your hair)

 

Thank you, for these are wonderful suggestioins.

I have skipped a weekly (appointment) service schedule.  I could substitute My feet being done for the hairbrushing.  (I have a perm.  I'm not having him rip it out.  lol)

Having him kneel with My drink ready when I come home from work is a MUST.  I will admit that he is still working on it.  My boy gets involved in projects and loses the time.  Unfortunately, mornings are more difficult.  Diet pepsi person here.  Coffee is out.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.




AtlantaMistress -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/13/2008 8:35:36 PM)

I think each individual obviously will have her own little lists - most things that are "standard" are mentioned, with maybe for me the exception of after taking off my shoes or boots asking if I want my feet massaged. I don't think smoking is your "problem" if he doesn't - he should still always have a lighter ready- and if using a match, the sulfer must burn off before the Lady uses it to light her cigarette.

My issue with training is I only like to have to say something once, so if I have to repeat myself, there will be a consequence. If I must say it a third time - the bitch doesn't come out in me - it is in my briefcase my most hated (or loved) whip so far. [:D]

I had the pleasure of seeing you with your boy though, and he looks very obedient and so happy to be serving you!




LadyHathor -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 4:50:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact



Thank you, for these are wonderful suggestioins.

I have skipped a weekly (appointment) service schedule.  I could substitute My feet being done for the hairbrushing.  (I have a perm.  I'm not having him rip it out.  lol)

Having him kneel with My drink ready when I come home from work is a MUST.  I will admit that he is still working on it.  My boy gets involved in projects and loses the time.  Unfortunately, mornings are more difficult.  Diet pepsi person here.  Coffee is out.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.



LadyPact, May I suggest you invest in a watch with an alarm? To Me part of serving as well as protocols is being in time, so a watch with an alarm cuts through the " i lost track of time"--smiles




thetammyjo -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 5:10:12 AM)

I usually do not consider what I expect from Fox or from those I train to be "protocols" -- I still see that as a mostly "Old Guard" or community term. When I train we try a far wider range of behaviors and rules than I'd expect in a 24/7 owner-slave dynamic.

I have rules and I have rituals that are important to me which must be followed and then I have those extra rules and rituals that are valued for the individual -- the affect it has on them, the personal value it has for them, but over all the ease with which I can remember and enforce them.

Having rules and rituals, having protocols that you can forget or feel pressured to enforce is a very bad idea in my strong opinion. Any rules that require more than your fingers to count them on probably is a set up for or your sub/slave forgetting them and that just opens the door to punishment (real, not the pretend fun stuff) and I think a cycle of repeated punishment is a good way to undermine the dynamics and at least one or not both people confidence.

So here are my rules as I can best word them. They grew over training and time and any formal list comes from the training and first ownership contracts. I'm sure I change how they are worded each time.

1. Call me Mistress unless there is a problem then use my name.

2. Say "goodbye" or "hello" to me when you enter the house, seek me out and say it to my face.

3. Get my permission to do anything outside the household and to get private time in the household. Permission for each thing only needs to be given once -- I'll change it if I feel it is necessary.

4. Never say "no" to an order from me. You may ask for more time or for more information but "no" is not allowed. You have safewords if there are serious problems.

5. Live your life as though it reflects me because it does.

6. Respect my career and family decisions and in turn I will respect your needs in those areas. In fact, don't come to me to make decisions about these things; you're an adult.

7. Always be as honest and as open as possible. Communicate everything unless it's what you got me for a gift.

8. Never orgasm without my permission when we are together. Otherwise I don't care what you do to yourself sexual when we aren't physically or verbally together.

9. Get my permission for any sexual or romantic relationship beyond us.

Frankly I think all of these by now is just subsumed under "I own you" for Fox and I.




LadyPact -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 8:19:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I usually do not consider what I expect from Fox or from those I train to be "protocols" -- I still see that as a mostly "Old Guard" or community term. When I train we try a far wider range of behaviors and rules than I'd expect in a 24/7 owner-slave dynamic.

I have rules and I have rituals that are important to me which must be followed and then I have those extra rules and rituals that are valued for the individual -- the affect it has on them, the personal value it has for them, but over all the ease with which I can remember and enforce them.

Having rules and rituals, having protocols that you can forget or feel pressured to enforce is a very bad idea in my strong opinion. Any rules that require more than your fingers to count them on probably is a set up for or your sub/slave forgetting them and that just opens the door to punishment (real, not the pretend fun stuff) and I think a cycle of repeated punishment is a good way to undermine the dynamics and at least one or not both people confidence.

I see this in a very similar way.  I don't keep many rituals, and those I do are rather simple ones.  I've always found that the more complicated something is, the less effective it's likely to be.  There are always generals that fit for all, but also those that fit into case specific situations.
quote:



So here are my rules as I can best word them. They grew over training and time and any formal list comes from the training and first ownership contracts. I'm sure I change how they are worded each time.

1. Call me Mistress unless there is a problem then use my name.  I'm with you on this, but for this particular sub, I use m'Lady.

2. Say "goodbye" or "hello" to me when you enter the house, seek me out and say it to my face.  Same here.  Kneel at the door if he's at the house first.

3. Get my permission to do anything outside the household and to get private time in the household. Permission for each thing only needs to be given once -- I'll change it if I feel it is necessary.  Half of this applies.  There's been no transition yet for bringing outside things into the household.  I'm fully with you on permission only needing to be given once in other areas.

4. Never say "no" to an order from me. You may ask for more time or for more information but "no" is not allowed. You have safewords if there are serious problems.  Agreed and in place.

5. Live your life as though it reflects me because it does.  Absolutely.

6. Respect my career and family decisions and in turn I will respect your needs in those areas. In fact, don't come to me to make decisions about these things; you're an adult.  The same.  I generally do not involve Myself in his family decisions that do not effect this one.

7. Always be as honest and as open as possible. Communicate everything unless it's what you got me for a gift.  In this case, the honesty seems to be easier than the openness.  My sub is still learning about this in some areas.  Journaling is helping, but I'm thinking another approach might be more effective.

8. Never orgasm without my permission when we are together. Otherwise I don't care what you do to yourself sexual when we aren't physically or verbally together.  Just implimented this during his stay this past weekend.

9. Get my permission for any sexual or romantic relationship beyond us.  This one is impossible in the situation.  It refers to his *other* family, which was something I was aware of before I put My symbol on him.

Frankly I think all of these by now is just subsumed under "I own you" for Fox and I.


Thank  you for taking the time to respond, Tammyjo.  I very much appreciate your input.




MsIncontrol -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 10:16:48 AM)

I think what most are mentioning here are rituals...protocols to me are different.  Protocol to me, who grew up in the Old Guard lifestyle is more about how you act, how you approach and speak to others, positions and posture mostly in public.  It is a common accepted form of behavior.  A ritual is something that we practice between ourselves.

pro·to·col  [image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif[/image]  [image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image][image]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif[/image]  /ˈproʊ[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]təˌkɔl, -ˌkɒl, -ˌkoʊl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[proh-tuh-kawl, -kol, -kohl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the customs and regulations dealing with diplomatic formality, precedence, and etiquette.  
rit·u·al    Pronunciation Key  (r ch - l)
n.
A detailed method of procedure faithfully or regularly followed.
A ceremonial act or a series of such acts.
adj.
A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value, which is prescribed by a religion or by the traditions of a community. 

Rituals are daily things you do to re-affirm your committment in the lifestyle and to your partner.  I have an outline for my subsmissive and taught class called "Rituals to Enhance your D/s".  I would be happy to share the class outline with you if you would like to see it, feel free to message me.




LadyPact -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 10:19:24 AM)

The reason I asked this is because some things, to Me, have become second nature.  This is not the case for one who is just starting out.




MsIncontrol -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 10:25:07 AM)

I agree with the second nature.  I've been in the lifestyle for a long time and with my submissive for nine years...as I interview and consider a new submissive it is always a challenge to train someone who is new either to the lifestyle or even just new to me.  As I prefer things in a particular way and it may be different than someone else's preference.  For example, in public I prefer my submissive to have a more formal approach...and not address other Dominants unless directed by me, not to offer their help or service without asking my permission.  Others don't seem to care if their submissive's approach me or to ask my submissives to do things without approaching me first. 




ItalianSMistress -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 12:37:35 PM)

Alright, here is a quick list of My top priorities when training someone, these are all things that are learned over time, I start with the first few and then introduce a few more with each session, keep in mind, that I dont do much casual hanging out with My slaves, I prefer mostly to get together for sessions, inbetween is limited
 
NEVER for any reason, ever look Me directly in the eye, or face for that matter  (I had a girl for over five years that told Me that if we ever got seperated in a crowd, unless she could see My feet, she would be fucked, as she would never be able to pick Me out from My face, LOL)
 
Dont make any sudden movements, dont assume becausce I stand up or sit down, for example, that you can too, and always ask permission to even change postion say, from kneeling to sitting
 
Dont ever come or go, without showing Me the respect of kissing My feet, that is the best way to show appreciation, I expect this at the beginning and end of every session
 
Make sure you always answer everything I say, right away, now matter what else may be going on around you, and pay close attention, as for what to call Me, its always been Mistress for My collared slaves, Ma'am for anyone else
 
I not only do not allow any kind of climax  without premission, with or without Me, unless otherwise stated, most times, you will have to have something to "trade" with Me, to make it interesting enough for Me to want to allow it.
 
When you bring Me something, like a drink, present it in front of Me, over your head, on your knees, and dont move until I take it
 
Those are a few basic ones I can think of now,,,I am sure there are many more, but I would be here all day!




MistressMelissa -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 1:00:22 PM)

Greetings,

We have a copy of Emily Post's Etiquette that we use to teach new house members from. Most of WIIWD is nothing more than good manners. Unfortunately, many were never taught or forgot their manners.

Since my house is service oriented, I also like to use a copy of Mrs. Beeton's Book of Household Management. The definitions of duties required by different servants contain many examples of qualities I find pleasing in a slave.

For every rule or ritual I employ requires I enforce or perform my counter action, I try and keep it simple. Part of being served means that I understand how to be served. Sometimes I wonder who needs the structure and routine more, me or those in my house.




DarlaDarling -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 1:43:40 PM)

I'm with MistressMelissa that good manners are the top of my list for protocol--I absolutely demand that my bottom be able to carry on in good standing publicly and privately.

Before my bottom may leave my presence, I need to be informed of where they are headed and when I can expect them to be finished/done.

I require a 'good morning' and 'good night' if they are a live-in.

Often, at leather events, they will not speak unless I direct them to.

Most protocols, in my experience and preference, are based in situation and necessity of the relationship.




ElanSubdued -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 3:03:52 PM)

ItalianSMistress,

quote:

NEVER for any reason, ever look Me directly in the eye, or face for that matter.  (I had a girl for over five years that told Me that if we ever got separated in a crowd, unless she could see My feet, she would be fucked, as she would never be able to pick Me out from My face, LOL.)

Don't make any sudden movements, don't assume because I stand up or sit down, for example, that you can too, and always ask permission to even change position say, from kneeling to sitting.

Don't ever come or go, without showing Me the respect of kissing My feet, that is the best way to show appreciation, I expect this at the beginning and end of every session.

Make sure you always answer everything I say, right away, now matter what else may be going on around you, and pay close attention, as for what to call Me, its always been Mistress for My collared slaves, Ma'am for anyone else.

I not only do not allow any kind of climax without permission, with or without Me, unless otherwise stated, most times, you will have to have something to "trade" with Me, to make it interesting enough for Me to want to allow it.

When you bring Me something, like a drink, present it in front of Me, over your head, on your knees, and don't move until I take it.


In the context of a fantasy play scene, these are quite hot.  However, if we're talking about real-life, day-to-day relationships, many of these seem impractical.  And besides, do you really want the job of micromanaging every movement of your partner?  That sounds like a lot of work.  When I tried some of these protocols in one of my day-to-day relationships, they made communicating and getting things done very difficult.  Simultaneously, these led to infractions (ultimately, difficulties between my domme and I) that didn't really exist.  For example, eye contact and body movement restrictions were particularly problematic.  As in other circumstances, I think it quite important to identify protocols appropriate for given situations.  One doesn't fret about not spell checking a post-it reminder for grocery shopping, but such an omission for a resume probably renders the document useless.  As much as the protocols themselves are important, so are context, time, and place.

Between domme and sub, one protocol I find essential is having trust and confidence in one another as individuals.  Thus, before I prepare breakfast, the normal protocol might be that I ask my domme what she wants.  However, if we've woken up late and are consequently in a rush, I may well get up and announce "I'm going to the kitchen to prepare our breakfast".  Indeed, as I leave the room a moment later, I may never look for confirmation from my partner.  As much as it may seem, this isn't an infraction.  Rather, I trust that if my partner wants me to do something else, she will ask.  Likewise, not asking my partner her menu selection isn't carelessness or thoughtlessness.  We just need to get going and my domme knows this.  Thus, when this kind of interaction interrupts our regular protocols, neither of us says anything because we both have trust and confidence in the other.  It's an organic thing (further helped by my making sure she is pampered and has exactly what she wants when we're both home later in the day. :-)

Elan.




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