RE: Experience in protocol (Full Version)

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ItalianSMistress -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 3:49:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

ItalianSMistress,

quote:

NEVER for any reason, ever look Me directly in the eye, or face for that matter.  (I had a girl for over five years that told Me that if we ever got separated in a crowd, unless she could see My feet, she would be fucked, as she would never be able to pick Me out from My face, LOL.)

Don't make any sudden movements, don't assume because I stand up or sit down, for example, that you can too, and always ask permission to even change position say, from kneeling to sitting.

Don't ever come or go, without showing Me the respect of kissing My feet, that is the best way to show appreciation, I expect this at the beginning and end of every session.

Make sure you always answer everything I say, right away, now matter what else may be going on around you, and pay close attention, as for what to call Me, its always been Mistress for My collared slaves, Ma'am for anyone else.

I not only do not allow any kind of climax without permission, with or without Me, unless otherwise stated, most times, you will have to have something to "trade" with Me, to make it interesting enough for Me to want to allow it.

When you bring Me something, like a drink, present it in front of Me, over your head, on your knees, and don't move until I take it.


In the context of a fantasy play scene, these are quite hot.  However, if we're talking about real-life, day-to-day relationships, many of these seem impractical.  And besides, do you really want the job of micromanaging every movement of your partner?  That sounds like a lot of work.  When I tried some of these protocols in one of my day-to-day relationships, they made communicating and getting things done very difficult.  Simultaneously, these led to infractions (ultimately, difficulties between my domme and I) that didn't really exist.  For example, eye contact and body movement restrictions were particularly problematic.  As in other circumstances, I think it quite important to identify protocols appropriate for given situations.  One doesn't fret about not spell checking a post-it reminder for grocery shopping, but such an omission for a resume probably renders the document useless.  As much as the protocols themselves are important, so are context, time, and place.

Elan.




That is why I stated that I dont really spend any amount of time with My slaves between sessions.  Once and a blue moon, perhaps, but not typically.




MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 8:15:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

In the context of a fantasy play scene, these are quite hot.  However, if we're talking about real-life, day-to-day relationships, many of these seem impractical. 



One solution I noticed in an "Old Guard" household (their definition) was that there was "relaxed" protocols when alone and "high protocol" if another Dominant was in the house

So the male sub would automatically go into high protocol (head lower than Mistresses unless ordered to do something, exiting rooms backwards so as to never turn his back on Mistress, no eye contact etc etc ) if I visited

I always wondered what happened when I wasn't there [:)]

Our own day to day protocols are similar to thetammyjo's. 

But I have one peculiarity: he must ALWAYS answer the mobile (cell phone) if it is me calling. 

I absolutely hate my subs being "uncontactable" for any reason.  Nothing and no-one should come before me in terms of his priorities (excluding genuine emergencies of course).

Yes, I know I am an ego-maniac and a control freak.  But hearing "leave a message" on his phone just enrages me!  So does "Sorry, I am just with So-and-So....can I call you back?" 






slaveboyforyou -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/14/2008 9:14:13 PM)

quote:

But I have one peculiarity: he must ALWAYS answer the mobile (cell phone) if it is me calling. 

I absolutely hate my subs being "uncontactable" for any reason.  Nothing and no-one should come before me in terms of his priorities (excluding genuine emergencies of course).

Yes, I know I am an ego-maniac and a control freak.  But hearing "leave a message" on his phone just enrages me!  So does "Sorry, I am just with So-and-So....can I call you back?" 


I think that's sort of unreasonable honestly.  I don't know your sub, but answering the phone can be a problem in certain situations.  I understand getting frustrated if you call someone and they never return the call.  People that do that irritate the hell out of me.  My own situation, I make it a point to tell everyone (especially dommes) not to try calling me during work.  I am not allowed to bring cell phones into work for security reasons (mostly because phones usually have cameras on them now).  I can't even take them at lunch, because no one leaves the facility for breaks.  Even if it weren't that, it usually irritates the hell out of me to get personal calls at work.  I just find it completely inconsiderate.  It doesn't look good to your boss to be taking calls while you're working.

Of course, there are also those other situations that I won't take calls.  I have not and will not ever talk on the phone while I am driving a car.  People blowing my phone up, insisting I call back when I am preoccupied will lose contact with me very quickly.




MistressVnus -> I have found (1/15/2008 12:37:59 AM)

that I have to treat each new sub (to me) as if they are novice.
I have read the posts here and concur on many of the protocols.  And, I have to laugh, Lady Pact, as I often go through the same delema with complacency and expectations.
I have found when there is someone new, as many have already stated, that barraging them with all these new protocols, rules, or whatever you want to call them, not only ovewhelms them, but I also have to remember to enforce them all.   *WHEW*...
So, when there is someone new about...I have found it best to tell them that the first rule is....
Don't do ANYTHING, without asking me about it first.  Not even move...lol.
In that way, I can explain as we go along and they don't have to try and second guess me.  That almost always gets a reprimand, even if they guessed correctly. 
Thanks for reminding me of myself!!




LadyPact -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/15/2008 6:02:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol

I agree with the second nature.  I've been in the lifestyle for a long time and with my submissive for nine years...as I interview and consider a new submissive it is always a challenge to train someone who is new either to the lifestyle or even just new to me.  As I prefer things in a particular way and it may be different than someone else's preference.  For example, in public I prefer my submissive to have a more formal approach...and not address other Dominants unless directed by me, not to offer their help or service without asking my permission.  Others don't seem to care if their submissive's approach me or to ask my submissives to do things without approaching me first. 


I see things very much the same way you do. It's the very reason that I started the thread.  So many things have become second nature over the years that I wouldn't want to miss things where I should be paying attention.

Thanks to you and the others who have replied.




thetammyjo -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/15/2008 6:15:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

But I have one peculiarity: he must ALWAYS answer the mobile (cell phone) if it is me calling.

I absolutely hate my subs being "uncontactable" for any reason. Nothing and no-one should come before me in terms of his priorities (excluding genuine emergencies of course).

Yes, I know I am an ego-maniac and a control freak. But hearing "leave a message" on his phone just enrages me! So does "Sorry, I am just with So-and-So....can I call you back?"


I think that's sort of unreasonable honestly. I don't know your sub, but answering the phone can be a problem in certain situations. I understand getting frustrated if you call someone and they never return the call. People that do that irritate the hell out of me. My own situation, I make it a point to tell everyone (especially dommes) not to try calling me during work. I am not allowed to bring cell phones into work for security reasons (mostly because phones usually have cameras on them now). I can't even take them at lunch, because no one leaves the facility for breaks. Even if it weren't that, it usually irritates the hell out of me to get personal calls at work. I just find it completely inconsiderate. It doesn't look good to your boss to be taking calls while you're working.

Of course, there are also those other situations that I won't take calls. I have not and will not ever talk on the phone while I am driving a car. People blowing my phone up, insisting I call back when I am preoccupied will lose contact with me very quickly.


This is one of those meatlife things we all of to deal with.

I personally dislike cellphones but had to get one for my job search and Tom needed one for his job. Fox does not have one at this time though he borrowed Tom's when he came to get me at the Indy airport.




Kitte9 -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/15/2008 9:51:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

Drawing the bath and rinsing you with a silver pitcher


May I say that this is a wonderful idea. Though I never thought of it before, you struck a chord within me. Thank you, thank you!




Kitte9 -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/15/2008 10:01:04 AM)

quote:

not to offer their help or service without asking my permission. 


Does opening a door or lighting another's cigarette fall within this catagory? Honest question, very new to protocols.




azropedntied -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/15/2008 3:34:13 PM)

Though i am not a Mistress may i suggest also book's and author .Master/slave relations and PROTOCOLS handbook for the female slave .The books  are with female slaves in mind but many of the context can be reversed to the Female Domme /Mistress .Both books are by Robert Rubel PhD .Manners do play a large part in this but formal  things are also given within the pages .
May i also add that everyone can institute thier own personal Protocols  and what is expected .




MsIncontrol -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/15/2008 10:23:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitte9

quote:

not to offer their help or service without asking my permission. 


Does opening a door or lighting another's cigarette fall within this catagory? Honest question, very new to protocols.


As a gentleman I would expect my submissive to be cordial to all ladies, if we are all going into the door together he would hold open the door for all ladies.  However, if he is in service to me and sees a lady coming to the door without an escort he needs to ask permission before he would leave me and open a door. 

Since neither of us smoke, I don't think the opprotunity to light a cigarette would come into our lives..but if it did, he would have to ask permission.  I often offer my submissive to escort single women whether Domme or sub to their cars at play parties or munches.  I am not saying I do not offer his service...I just don't want him offering his service to anyone but me.




LadyHugs -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/16/2008 9:19:59 PM)

Dear LadyPact, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I have many protocol practices to which I prefer personally.  That said, I would also say that some protocols are formal, semi-formal and or informal.
 
These will not be in any particular order/priority.  These protocols I prefer are:
 
1.  Introductions will be done by the Masters.
 
2.  Slaves will acknowledge a Master by a distinct 'nod' in acknowledgment.  Two flicks of the finger, the slave will go into 'Honor' Position and know the Master I am with is aware of Leather protocol. 
 
3.  Slave will always be to the side of the sidewalk's curb, as to protect me from harm and or my leathers becoming soiled due to traffic debris.
 
4.  Slaves will not use any furniture, unless they have permission and or using the computer at their desk and or office.
 
5.  Slave will follow an arm's length behind and off set.
 
6.  Slaves will not use the 'toilet's seat but, sit on the rim as to not soil the seat of the Master's.
 
7.  Slave kneels--all slaves of mine will kneel at the same time.  Those unable to kneel will present themselves standing at attention with bowed head slightly until greeted and or commanded 'at ease.'
 
8.  Slaves will stop and be as out of the way as possible when a Master is passing them.  Exceptions will be those slaves who are doing cooking duties and in service to another Master.
 
9.  Cover code (hat code) protocol will be followed, with the exception of female Masters.
 
10. Slave will enter a premise as to look about and see if it is secure and suitable and then return to the automobile and accompany the Master in and wait to be seated until I have been seated and settled.  Then will the slave be given a non-verbal command to sit.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs
 




MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/17/2008 12:59:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

But I have one peculiarity: he must ALWAYS answer the mobile (cell phone) if it is me calling.

I absolutely hate my subs being "uncontactable" for any reason. Nothing and no-one should come before me in terms of his priorities (excluding genuine emergencies of course).

Yes, I know I am an ego-maniac and a control freak. But hearing "leave a message" on his phone just enrages me! So does "Sorry, I am just with So-and-So....can I call you back?"


I think that's sort of unreasonable honestly. I don't know your sub, but answering the phone can be a problem in certain situations. I understand getting frustrated if you call someone and they never return the call. People that do that irritate the hell out of me. My own situation, I make it a point to tell everyone (especially dommes) not to try calling me during work. I am not allowed to bring cell phones into work for security reasons (mostly because phones usually have cameras on them now). I can't even take them at lunch, because no one leaves the facility for breaks. Even if it weren't that, it usually irritates the hell out of me to get personal calls at work. I just find it completely inconsiderate. It doesn't look good to your boss to be taking calls while you're working.

Of course, there are also those other situations that I won't take calls. I have not and will not ever talk on the phone while I am driving a car. People blowing my phone up, insisting I call back when I am preoccupied will lose contact with me very quickly.


This is one of those meatlife things we all of to deal with.

I personally dislike cellphones but had to get one for my job search and Tom needed one for his job. Fox does not have one at this time though he borrowed Tom's when he came to get me at the Indy airport.


Yes, I fully agree wanting a submissive to be on call 24/7 is a very tough ask.  Many could not do it for all the reasons given above.  And many more could not do it because their wife would object!!!!

Very luckily for me, I have found submissives who happily carry their phone 24/7 including a car phone and are happy to answer it whenever I need or want anything.  Usually the self employed, doctors or lawyers (non-trial, obviously).  Wage slaves could not get away with it.

My current partner knew it was my requirement and agreed.  He knows that being owned means (to me) being available 24/7, not doing special dances, poses or serving drinks a few minutes a day. 

However, he is smart enough to tell me if he is jumping on a  plane, giving a lecture or in a job interview, so the phone has to be off.  I can deal with that.

It probably also helps that I rarely ring any way and never ring for "chit chat".  He rings me much more than I ring him. 

He is a really busy lawyer, but never, ever too busy to take a call from me.  I really, really like knowing that.  [:)] 





Quirk -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/17/2008 1:41:49 AM)

I like the Emily Post idea- My grandmother had live in servants, and they were trained to run the household out of a very early version of that book. They didn't kneel, but there was a lot of forelock tugging. And no using the furniture, drinks on a silver tray in tumblers with straws so the lipstick doesn't get smudged, every lady of that generation had these things going on in their houses so Mrs. Post is an excellent resource. The servants were pretty invisible when guest were about- part of the training!
I had to practically memorize parts of the 1948 edition right before my debut. It's actually a fascinating book, and probably would make an excellent training reference. Mrs. Beatons is good too.
Not having any slaves, being freshly hatched, this is a very interesting thread. A lot of it seems to be about teaching the manners of a gentleman, as well as those of first rate Buckingham Palace household servants. Manners, manners, manners! And the kneeling.
That rinsing with a silver pitcher is great- it also comes from the pre war pre income tax big houses in England. I kid you not, the titled had servants to bathe them. Anything you might want is in a household management book from the 19th century.

Perhaps a written manual would be a good idea. I have one for me to just keep my house running, with a calender, and it would immediately clue in anyone else. Put in your protocols for other things and there you are.




Marsh -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/17/2008 3:24:53 AM)

Mistress Malissa, your comment, "Part of being served means that I understand how to be served." words of wisdom, a deeper understanding of being served results in service
emitting from a different dimension.




LadyPact -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/17/2008 5:05:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear LadyPact, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I have many protocol practices to which I prefer personally.  That said, I would also say that some protocols are formal, semi-formal and or informal.

I agree with this entirely.  I tend to balance somewhere between  semi-formal and formal.  If you'll recall, at one point, I started a thread about seeing Myself as a Dominant, rather than a Mistress in My current dynamic.  I didn't feel that some got the gist of what I was trying to say at that particular time, but in part, it had to do with not being as *formal* as I might have been in the past.
quote:


 
These will not be in any particular order/priority.  These protocols I prefer are:
 
1.  Introductions will be done by the Masters.  Always.
 
2.  Slaves will acknowledge a Master by a distinct 'nod' in acknowledgment.  Two flicks of the finger, the slave will go into 'Honor' Position and know the Master I am with is aware of Leather protocol.  This one isn't practiced often, because of the rarity of high protocol events locally.
 
3.  Slave will always be to the side of the sidewalk's curb, as to protect me from harm and or my leathers becoming soiled due to traffic debris.  Good handle on this.
 
4.  Slaves will not use any furniture, unless they have permission and or using the computer at their desk and or office.  Absolutely. 
 
5.  Slave will follow an arm's length behind and off set.  Not always, as I need him closer to hear him if he is speaking.
 
6.  Slaves will not use the 'toilet's seat but, sit on the rim as to not soil the seat of the Master's.  Covered, since he is not permitted to use the *Master* bathroom at all.
 
7.  Slave kneels--all slaves of mine will kneel at the same time.  Those unable to kneel will present themselves standing at attention with bowed head slightly until greeted and or commanded 'at ease.'  Kneeling's big with Me.
 
8.  Slaves will stop and be as out of the way as possible when a Master is passing them.  Exceptions will be those slaves who are doing cooking duties and in service to another Master.  Can't say much on this off of the top of My head.
 
9.  Cover code (hat code) protocol will be followed, with the exception of female Masters.  Honestly, this one depends on whether he's in uniform or not.
 
10. Slave will enter a premise as to look about and see if it is secure and suitable and then return to the automobile and accompany the Master in and wait to be seated until I have been seated and settled.  Then will the slave be given a non-verbal command to sit.  First half no, but certainly the second half.
quote:


 Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs
 


Thank you for your time in sharing with Me.




amayos -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/17/2008 8:02:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Where do you make your beginnings with those who are just starting in the lifestyle? What has become such a "given" for you, that you are surprised when your submissive doesn't know it?


I always recommend training from the ground up. That is to say, never give in to laziness and assume a base structure to preexist—and if it does, it must be held under close scrutiny and reshaped by your own hand, for the core forms of protocol are the most vital. Often it is through the little things one looses power and influence. Take the time to author rules of your own, and explain them—no matter how simple or basic they may sound. Underscore the consequences for transgressions, and ply discipline with a stern consistency. Avoid mothering too much. When enough time and repetition has passed, the key foundation of training will be laid, allowing for deeper work to continue.

All things are built upon in layers, through repetition and focus. When the desired trait in your creature has become reflex, it is perhaps then you may label that trait a given, but never until then.

The basics, as I see them, are:

• proper address;
• core ethos;
• rules of domesticity;
• how to properly kneel / grovel / sit / heel;
• reflex obedience;
• care of the body;
• how to speak and when to speak;
• basic servile etiquette in public;
• prayers, mantras and meditation practices.








Keun -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/18/2008 2:00:27 PM)

Thank you SO much for starting this post - it's been extremely helpful and informative.

(Ms.) Keun




Elorin -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/18/2008 5:20:28 PM)

My personal protocols and rituals for my submissives are similar to many of those shared here, just wanted to say thank you for starting the thread as it was a good read and I got some nice references from it.

~E




ThundersCry -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/28/2008 2:42:25 PM)

Interesting post LadyPact...
 
I am not surprised by only a few people posting back....a shame, actually.
 
Protocal is something I do not see in many nowdays....
 
When I was being taught...I GOT ONE CHANCE... and I had for sure better listen closely. Its not only about manners its about paying attention to..detail. Some like it some don`t.
 
Nothing sweeter than watching an elegant, attentive sub with their dom/me`/mater/mistress.
 
I know looking back I served in fear many days....and that was actually a real hinderence in many ways as well...
 
I appreciate you guys letting me come in here....teachable I pray to remain, lest I take someone to the gates of hell.




LadyHugs -> RE: Experience in protocol (1/28/2008 4:29:42 PM)

Dear ThundersCry, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I do thank you for your post.  Detail is something that seems to be something that is over looked, especially when it is not something you're familiar with and it can't be distinguished what is correctly presented or not.
 
I am personally thrilled, when I give my wishes to a servant/slave/submissive, then they depart with an air of confidence and to be able to watch them at their task; to see them be exacting in carrying things out, per my request.  To know that I am getting exactly what I wish for--not someone ablibbing or make it how 'they' think I should have it--is the epitome of service as well as consideration towards the request.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs




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