.Erasing flaws.

.Erasing flaws. (Full Version)

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RCdc -> .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:05:57 AM)
There is a post currently, about what makes a person(Dominant) unattractive. There are always posts on here about what makes a person attractive. And specifically, there was a post on the submissive forum that asked specifically about changing your Master. I read that particular post and it was responded to by s-types and there was a fair few who said there were aspects that they would change if they could. Now it may have been said in jest, but really made me stop and go – wow. Then IrishMist recently said – quote: Absolutly NOT. If a person manages to reach that place inside me, it's not just the good that I am responding to; it's the bad also. They both combine to make up the person as a whole; why would I want to change that? To take away a part of them that I am reaching out for? Now see I completely agree with her. If you evolve into a relationship with someone – you are accepting that they come with all their flaws. Those attributes that may not be ideal to you, but you accept them anyway regardless because they make up that person. No one is perfect and flaws are what make a person unique. My thoughts and questons are - As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable? Why submit to someone you would want to change (your Master/Dominant insertermhere)? To the dominants – if you knew that there was an attribute that your s-type disliked, would you try to alter it or not if it meant submission was given? How would you feel to find out your submissive wanted someone about you to alter and was trying to alter? What would you do? I just have no desire to change Darcy at all. If I did, I would never have considered submitting to him in the first place. I am just confounded by the mentality that you might submit to a person, yet then try to change them. the.dark.

Bound2One -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:11:53 AM)
quote: As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable? I'd definitely alter for my Master should he find something unpleasant and unacceptable, though I cringe thinking that there might be something within me, whom he's chosen, that he would find that displeasing. I imagine this would be something that had to be dealt with at the start of the relationship. Can you imagine finding out years into an M/s relationship that something you've been doing all that time has been unpleasant for your Master? ::shudder:: Mortifying! If something needs to be changed which is obvious from the get-go, let's handle it up front and get it out of the way. No one is perfect. Sometimes flaws need to be dealt with, depending on the two people within the relationship. I'd think most would be accepted - because as IrishMist said, even flaws make up the whole of the person you are choosing. An aside - I can't help but think of Seinfeld when reading this thread and the other... remember how many ways/reasons he had for dumping girlfriends? Man-hands... lol!

Justme696 -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:13:06 AM)
MMmmmm you know how to ask things. I love that. My view is based on beeing in love with a slave or sub. I always had a love relation with the ones I owned. That propably has influence. Propably makes you accept more, but I can't judge about other situations. I don't mind change, and I think small changes can't be stopped. They just happen. Bigger changes..mmm...why would I change a person i picked in the first place. If I disliek soemthing that much, that it irritates me, i should have picked some one else. Next to that...I am not perfect either..and she has to handle my imperfections too. It is giving and taking.

LordVelvet -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:18:41 AM)
To the OP, I guess it would be the specifics. Meaning would I change the fact that a slave does something that isn't good for her, even though she did it when we met, probably. If it meant making her a better person and therefore a better slave. She has trusted Me to help guide her will all aspects of her life, not just the good stuff. Just a thought. LordVelvet

ownedgirlie -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:19:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable? Yes. It is my job, desire, and need to please him. If I am doing something he finds unpleasant, I change it. For the most part, my Master allows my natural personality to shine through, other than those things he finds unhealthy or greatly annoying. quote: Why submit to someone you would you want to change your Master/Dominant insertermhere? Sorry, I'm not understanding this question. quote: To the dominants – if you knew that there was an attribute that your s-type disliked, would you try to alter it or not if it meant submission was given? On his behalf I would say No, he does not change himself for me. It is not his job to be pleasing to me; He is who he is and pleases himself. However, I will also say he has, on occasion, accepted my suggestions on certain ways he can take care of himself better, but that's also for his own benefit and because my argument made sense to him. quote: How would you feel to find out your submissive wanted someone about you to alter and was trying to alter? It has happened before, in the beginning of our relationship. One thing that is very difficult for me is there are times, after some intensive time together, when he will be distant afterwards. I have realized this will not change - it's part of who he is. I have no business trying to alter his behavior. I submit to him, he does not submit to me. If he chooses to change something about himself, it is because he wants to, not because I tried to change it. I work around the occasional difficulties as part of my submission to him. quote: What would you do? What he did in the past was listen to my concerns, acknowledge them, and remind me he would not change on my account so to stop trying to control him. I have come to love and appreciate that about him.

Dnomyar -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:20:49 AM)
Im in SPC work and there is always room for improvement. Nothing wrong with making minor changes or adjustments. If it is a Major change start looking for someone else.

Ryugen -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:23:57 AM)
I must agree with your last statement there, the.dark, about how you'd never have gotten into the relationship in the first place if there was anything that either of you was disatisfied with in the other. I don't think there are too many qualities and preferences about a person that can be changed just with mental effort and learning. After all, our neural pathways are dictated by our sequencing RNA, but let's not get into a debate about genetics and psychology + religion. I think it'd come down to the individual situation and the 'thing' that a sub wanted to change about me or didn't like. I guess there's also the severity of dislike for the quality/habit/preference as well, although how you measure that I'm not sure of. So I guess it's a case by case thing more than a universal rule. If we were going with an answer hinged on the majority of situations, I still wouldn't feel comfortable giving a one-way answer as I can't accurately estimate how many times situations might go against my answer. In short, it all depends on the people, place, and 'thing'.

Justme696 -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:25:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar Im in SPC work and there is always room for improvement. Nothing wrong with making minor changes or adjustments. If it is a Major change start looking for someone else. agree it is nice if the UCL-LCL lies with in the USL-LSL (if SPC means Statiscal Process Control ) pointing eachother on flaws and adjusting for more happiness is ok, i think

camille65 -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:26:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark <snipus maximus If you evolve into a relationship with someone – you are accepting that they come with all their flaws. Those attributes that may not be ideal to you, but you accept them anyway regardless because they make up that person. No one is perfect and flaws are what make a person unique. My thoughts and questons are - As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable? Yes I alter, try to alter and ask for help in altering something that he would say is unacceptable in me. I submit to him knowing there are things he wants to change about me, and those things need to be changed. Why submit to someone you would you want to change your Master/Dominant insertermhere? I'm literally not quite understanding the second question but I will try. He has changed my inability to stand up against people I perceive stronger into an ability to mostly do so. Yes it is a work in progress [:D]He has nearly completely changed my internal list of good me vs bad me. I could go on for paragraphs on things he has seen the need to change, and things he has changed. Eeep that makes me sound awfully broken heh but it's not like exactly.His changes have been to sharpen and strengthen the good bits so that I can look at the bad bits. Then either understand/incorporate them or get rid of them. He tells me nearly every day that he wants me to be what he sees as my potential. And damn if that isn't a great feeling then I don't what is.[:)] So did I totally misconstrue the second question that I had trouble understanding? Heh. Pain meds atm are requiring absolute precision in order for me to be able to process things.[/ To the dominants – if you knew that there was an attribute that your s-type disliked, would you try to alter it or not if it meant submission was given? How would you feel to find out your submissive wanted someone about you to alter and was trying to alter? What would you do? I just have no desire to change Darcy at all. If I did, I would never have considered submitting to him in the first place. I am just confounded by the mentality that you might submit to a person, yet then try to change them. the.dark. Next Q is to a dom so I disqualify.Next up again I am sorry but the organization of the words is causing a block in understanding the sentence. Seriously it is the meds and flare up, usually I don't have a problem reading you. usually. hehehe. sorryNext up, I'm unable to determine if that q is directed to the s type, or the d type so I'm leaving it blank.Dang a whole lot of writing for what ended up to be short answers to 2 questions! Edited because I thought if I reformatted it I wouldn't be so confused but I messed it up a bit and now I am really even more confused. Ah well. Maybe someone read the orginal post I made.

RCdc -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:27:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Sorry, I'm not understanding this question. Sorry OG - I mistyped and changed it and just saw you didn't get my question (probably why - my typing sucks). What I am asking is why would you want to change specific flaws of your dominant after you have submitted to them? This is in reference to some people who claimed the question to be a loaded one, or 'Hell yeah' when asked if they could, would they? the.dark.

ownedgirlie -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:30:35 AM)
Thanks, the.dark. Then my answer would be no, I would not change specific flaws in him. They are part of his charm. [;)]

Dnomyar -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:31:45 AM)
justme you think therfore you are. You had the spc right.,

RCdc -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:32:00 AM)
Ha Camille, it isn't just your meds I am guessing , but my arrangement. I messed up and double posted a couple of words. My spell checker is great for spelling, but sucks at placing it into readable and correct grammar! Its not until OG pointed it out, I realised and went back and changed it. Hopefully it makes more sense now! the.dark.

HalloweenWhite -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:47:47 AM)
To answer your question as sucsinctly as I can, I would try to change those things that made My girl unhappy/uncomfortable etc. if I could, Id do it out of respect for her and because I value what she gives to Me, namely her and her trust, affection etc. If I could change things then I'd think whether I wanted her to change things about herself for Me. Otherwise Id be a hypocrite, and why should I be able to get away with that?.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 9:51:02 AM)
Yup. I already have changed a few major things for him, like not wearing sack dresses when he says not to, and trying to keep the bed free of my junk so he can get into it when I didn't before. He found my lack of manners in private deplorable, cause I'd burp with out even thinking about it and of course being on the phone it came out very loud in his ear and I'd not even realize it, and he said stop doing that in my ear take the phone away from your mouth. and I've started doing that. I may uncontiously belch with out moving the phone, but it's a lot rarer now. If he can't stand me belching in his ear, and has the right to ask me to stop, why can't I ask him to change his slovenly habbits? And if it's ok for dominants to ask for changes in the subs why isn't it ok for us to want changes in them. Maybe you love them but what you would change is disgusting behavior they're better off with out, that in whole don't detract from your submission but you'd love them not to do, because it'd make them a better person? quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark There is a post currently, about what makes a person(Dominant) unattractive. There are always posts on here about what makes a person attractive. And specifically, there was a post on the submissive forum that asked specifically about changing your Master. I read that particular post and it was responded to by s-types and there was a fair few who said there were aspects that they would change if they could. Now it may have been said in jest, but really made me stop and go – wow. Then IrishMist recently said – quote: Absolutly NOT. If a person manages to reach that place inside me, it's not just the good that I am responding to; it's the bad also. They both combine to make up the person as a whole; why would I want to change that? To take away a part of them that I am reaching out for? Now see I completely agree with her. If you evolve into a relationship with someone – you are accepting that they come with all their flaws. Those attributes that may not be ideal to you, but you accept them anyway regardless because they make up that person. No one is perfect and flaws are what make a person unique. My thoughts and questons are - As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable? Why submit to someone you would want to change (your Master/Dominant insertermhere)? To the dominants – if you knew that there was an attribute that your s-type disliked, would you try to alter it or not if it meant submission was given? How would you feel to find out your submissive wanted someone about you to alter and was trying to alter? What would you do? I just have no desire to change Darcy at all. If I did, I would never have considered submitting to him in the first place. I am just confounded by the mentality that you might submit to a person, yet then try to change them. the.dark.

szobras -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 10:03:03 AM)
To the dominants – if you knew that there was an attribute that your s-type disliked, would you try to alter it or not if it meant submission was given? I personally do not base any changes that I choose to make of myself on the condition of that exchange. I do believe people can bring to light things about each other that would be in the personal best interest to perhaps change, and in doing so even make for a better interaction in the relationship. Dynamics aside, I believe a relationship is an exchange at times requiring some comprimise. To grow is to change, and if we do not continue to grow together, then who are we in relation to? ... How would you feel to find out your submissive wanted someone (something) about you to alter and was trying to alter? It depends on what it is, and the motivations.. Certainly taking initiative without directive, to do things that would lower my stress levels, be of value to my health and well being, even compliment my growth and abilities, and those of our relationship,ect.., are not only admirable and acceptable motivations to me, but appreciated. Now, were she attempting to manipulate me into changing something I would choose to retain, motivated simply for her preferences, I would not find that action acceptable, and those would indeed be addressed. An important point that would also be discussed is of what was being attempted to be changed about me, and why.. perhaps I may find it a consideration in my, and our relationships best interest.

kyraofMists -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 10:06:04 AM)
Speaking for our family only, it isn't really about trying to change who the person is. Yes, there are certain behaviors that we each have that annoys, irritates or that we find unpleasant. Some of them we just accept and learn to live with. Others we decide that we wish to improve that aspect and seek to do better. I think I have mentioned this in another post but we do not perceive behavior as being who we are. Our behavior is just a way that we demonstrate who we are and then there are other behaviors that have little to do with who we are; they are just habits picked up over the years. It may be that there are other behaviors that would more appropriately demonstrate our core selves. From the perspective that changing behavior does not automatically mean changing who we are, is how I am answering the questions that you asked. There are things about me that annoy him and he finds unpleasant. Whether I try to change those behaviors will depend on whether he wants them changed or whether I think they should be changed. As an example, I can be rather grumpy in the morning. That is a learned behavior from living with my mom since she was grumpy in the morning. It isn't something that he particularly likes and he has said that it is a behavior that I can change if I wanted to. He has yet to require me to change this behavior. Most likely it is because even though I am grumpy I still interact with him in the manner that he finds appropriate. However, in the past month it has been a behavior that has started to even annoy me, so I am trying to change some internal thinking that makes me grumpy. There probably is not any outward change yet, but I am noticing that I am less stressed. As I get settled here I am trying to find a time for me to have time to myself. Mornings used to be that time, but with such a busy house here, that just isn't possible. I would not submit to someone if I wanted to change their character. However, something like leaving the toilet seat up is much more a habit than to do with his character. He is changing that habit at my request because our male siamese likes to drink out of the toilet... whether it has been flushed or not. We do not see that request as asking him change who he is or altering something about his character. I know that he wouldn't change who he is in order to have a relationship with someone. However, he has changed his opinion on something that was extremely important for me to have a long term relationship with someone. When we first met he did not like cats and he was very blunt that there was no way he would ever have cats living in his house. Today we have 5 in his house and he absolutely loves them. Truthfully, changing his opinion and his rule of no cats in the house is actually a demonstration of who he is. He is very open minded and more than willing to challenge his own beliefs and opinions if he is presented with new information that does not support them. Sometimes changing our behaviors can demonstrate who we are. Not sure how coherent this is since I wrote it while cleaning and doing laundry, so please ask for clarification if I have not been clear. I hope you are Darcy are having a great New Year; we wish you both the best. Knight's Kyra

Justme696 -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 10:07:47 AM)
quote: From the perspective that changing behavior does not automatically mean changing who we are, is how I am answering the questions that you asked. that is a very good point, that changing habbit doesn't mean changing a person

LordVelvet -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 10:09:24 AM)
szobras, YOU are too cool for words, thanks for the smile. LordVelvet

charmdpetKeira -> RE: .Erasing flaws. (1/15/2008 10:14:28 AM)
quote: As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable? Yes, part of my being his pet, is being able to fulfill his needs. I have to add though; I would not change for him to the point where I stopped being me. quote: Why submit to someone you would want to change (your Master/Dominant insertermhere)? I wouldn’t; for two reasons. First I realize I can not change other people, they have to change themselves, and in order for that to happen, they have to want to. Second the personality traits that cause the most issues for me, are also the traits I admire most about him. k

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