Bondage to fight against (Full Version)

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AllietheKitten -> Bondage to fight against (1/15/2008 9:19:42 PM)

Hi A/all.
My sub really *really* likes to fight against bondage. And I really like ropes (we also have cuffs, chain, ect). The problem is that a lot of the more complicated and attractive rope ties (example, the Butterfly Sleeve from Two Knotty Boys) are too easy for him to get out of. Now, I can always order him to stop his wiggling but its kind of fun watching him fight to escape. (We have considered safety and I won't let him fight to the point where he injured himself).
My question is this: Does anyone know some rope ties (more complicated than a simple tie down) that are harder to get out of, even with a wiggling subbie?

PS. So far the best one seems to be the Basket or Hogtie, but it puts too much stress on his body (in the full arched position) to use it for more than 30 minutes.



HandSolo -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/15/2008 9:41:28 PM)

Just tie his hands together, back to back, by binding his thumbs and pinkies to each other, in addition to any other tie you like. Use heavy cord or leather thongs, and add another loop at the wrists if he is making headway..



pompeii -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/15/2008 9:58:51 PM)

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.



Justme696 -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/15/2008 10:25:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?



Guilty1974 -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 12:19:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten

Does anyone know some rope ties (more complicated than a simple tie down) that are harder to get out of, even with a wiggling subbie?


There's lots of ties that are hard(er) to get out of when you tie japanese style. If you're partner can't hold an arched western hogtie, you might consider a japanese style hogtie (gyaku ebi), which basically consists of an arm-chest harness (takate-kote) and two folded legs. For many that's less sternuous, and longer to hold, while it's difficult to escape a well tied harness. The folded-leg-tie can also be applied to arms, and if tied well on all four limbs is one of the few ties that cannot be escaped.

Examples:
http://www.touwtjes.tk/galleries/delier1/img/p03.jpg
http://www.touwtjes.tk/galleries/delier1/img/g02.jpg

Another option might be a forced bow (japanese style: agura), a cross-legged postion with either the chest or the neck pulled towards the feet.
Example:
http://www.touwtjes.tk/galleries/Lilith3/img/DSC_0094a.jpg

One way to improve your overall skills is to tie, and then let your partner free himself. Pay close attention, and next time you know how to improve your tie.

But in the end it is very difficult to tie someone with rope in such a way that a) absolutely no escape is possible and b) no serious harm will occur in the short or long run. If that's an aboslute requirement, you might be better off with decent cuffs or chains.



Guilty1974 -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 12:26:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?


I think what attracts me as a rope-Top is the versatility and flexibility of rope. Handcuffs are nice to make sure someone cannot escape, but with a few pieces of rope I can tie a few dozen different things from a standard hogtie to advanced suspensions, each with their own effect. From comfortable to painful and from stable to messing around with your sense of time and space.

Besides that, and musch more subjectively, I like the aesthetics too. Especially with hemp and jute rope, just plain natural materials.

Then again, if you like hard shiny steel better, no problem :-)



Justme696 -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 1:51:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?


I think what attracts me as a rope-Top is the versatility and flexibility of rope. Handcuffs are nice to make sure someone cannot escape, but with a few pieces of rope I can tie a few dozen different things from a standard hogtie to advanced suspensions, each with their own effect. From comfortable to painful and from stable to messing around with your sense of time and space.

Besides that, and musch more subjectively, I like the aesthetics too. Especially with hemp and jute rope, just plain natural materials.

Then again, if you like hard shiny steel better, no problem :-)



I sure like how it looks. I am just a person with les patience to try it....perhaps in time
But it is very intersting



MsSaskia -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 2:01:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?



I wouldn't call it a human instinct.  I've seen enough humans go completely limp when they're bound to know that for some, giving in is automatic. 

I've been playing with rope for years, but only developed an appreciation for escape artists this past weekend when I watched someone take about 45 minutes to get himself out of a tie I'd put him in.  He'd started out with his hands behind his back up near his shoulder blades, and getting those loosed up enough to come around to the front wasn't easy.  Next time I get a chance to tie him, I'm going to make it more of a challenge.



Justme696 -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 2:19:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?



I wouldn't call it a human instinct.  I've seen enough humans go completely limp when they're bound to know that for some, giving in is automatic. 

I've been playing with rope for years, but only developed an appreciation for escape artists this past weekend when I watched someone take about 45 minutes to get himself out of a tie I'd put him in.  He'd started out with his hands behind his back up near his shoulder blades, and getting those loosed up enough to come around to the front wasn't easy.  Next time I get a chance to tie him, I'm going to make it more of a challenge.


hehe that sounds like fun



slavemaia -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 3:42:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?



i'm a robe person when Master allows me to wear one - hee hee - okay - i know - dumb joke, but i couldn't resist.



ranrich -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 3:45:07 PM)

Learn how to tie the clove hitch, wrists and ankles. Impossible to get out of but easy to untie. Your sub will learn that the harder he tries to get out the tighter it gets.



Guilty1974 -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/16/2008 4:04:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranrich
Your sub will learn that the harder he tries to get out the tighter it gets.


Which, if you know anything about bondage, is exactly what you do not want with wrists and ankles.



ta2dqt -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/18/2008 6:27:50 PM)

Uh!!!!  I LOVE rope!!!  I ALWAYS want to learn more about ...."the ropes" of things!!!  ;)




phoenixinchains -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/18/2008 6:46:42 PM)

perhaps he needs to get it out of his system. my Mate has bound me soley to command me to escape within a time-limit. maybe this can help, remembering the ties is a little beyond me- phoenix



DesFIP -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/18/2008 7:00:29 PM)

Bondage mittens are your friends. A lot of subs who escape from bondage do so because they can make their hand smaller than their wrist. They fold the thumb in and can get the hand to slide out of the wrist tie that way. Put a pair of socks balled up in their hand, have them make a fist, saran wrap and duct tape. This way they can't slide their hands free, and they can't use a couple of moving fingers to undo a knot.

Then tell them that if they don't get free inside of ten minutes they've got a particularly nasty play punishment coming.



Asherdelampyr -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/18/2008 11:11:11 PM)

Though its not the same as being helpful I must add, I love rope, I love everything about it... I am still learning but am already in love with it! 



ViceVersa -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/19/2008 4:47:36 AM)

A couple of things I keep in mind:

1) I find that the closer you can (reasonably) tie the elbows together behind the back, the better chance you have at preventing escape.

2) Finishing the tie on the opposite side of the body that the wrists are on helps - e.g., a waist-rope, wrists tied in back, using the remainder of the wrist rope as a crotch-rope and tying it off in front under the belly button.

In addition to tying up your partner and watching how they escape, consider being tied up yourself (yes...even if you're an UberDom). You'll learn a lot about what the body can and can't do, gain an understanding of what the bottom is experiencing, and improve your ties. The competition between the rope top and the escape artist can be fun!

Vice



ViceVersa -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/19/2008 4:49:56 AM)

Oh...and you might consider attending Shibaricon in May. I haven't been, but I'm going this year and can't wait.

Vice



lusciouslips19 -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/19/2008 4:52:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ViceVersa

A couple of things I keep in mind:

1) I find that the closer you can (reasonably) tie the elbows together behind the back, the better chance you have at preventing escape.

2) Finishing the tie on the opposite side of the body that the wrists are on helps - e.g., a waist-rope, wrists tied in back, using the remainder of the wrist rope as a crotch-rope and tying it off in front under the belly button.

In addition to tying up your partner and watching how they escape, consider being tied up yourself (yes...even if you're an UberDom). You'll learn a lot about what the body can and can't do, gain an understanding of what the bottom is experiencing, and improve your ties. The competition between the rope top and the escape artist can be fun!

Vice



Escape???? Who would ever try to escape?

That position would not be comfortable to me. However, i guess I have never ever wanted to try to escape. I suppose if that was Masters idea of a good time. But the thought has never entered my mind.



ViceVersa -> RE: Bondage to fight against (1/19/2008 5:00:23 AM)

Well...I switch, luscious. When I bottom, I like to fight the ropes and the bondage needs to be inescapable or I feel frustrated and can't get into bottom space. I like some discomfort, as well. Too much ruins the sexual aspect of it, but just the right amount.... :-)

Vice



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