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Bondage to fight against - 1/15/2008 9:19:42 PM   
AllietheKitten


Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Hi A/all.
My sub really *really* likes to fight against bondage. And I really like ropes (we also have cuffs, chain, ect). The problem is that a lot of the more complicated and attractive rope ties (example, the Butterfly Sleeve from Two Knotty Boys) are too easy for him to get out of. Now, I can always order him to stop his wiggling but its kind of fun watching him fight to escape. (We have considered safety and I won't let him fight to the point where he injured himself).
My question is this: Does anyone know some rope ties (more complicated than a simple tie down) that are harder to get out of, even with a wiggling subbie?

PS. So far the best one seems to be the Basket or Hogtie, but it puts too much stress on his body (in the full arched position) to use it for more than 30 minutes.

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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/15/2008 9:41:28 PM   
HandSolo


Posts: 323
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline 		Just tie his hands together, back to back, by binding his thumbs and pinkies to each other, in addition to any other tie you like. Use heavy cord or leather thongs, and add another loop at the wrists if he is making headway..

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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/15/2008 9:58:51 PM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.

(in reply to HandSolo)
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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/15/2008 10:25:18 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 1/15/2008 10:26:16 PM >

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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 12:19:40 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten

Does anyone know some rope ties (more complicated than a simple tie down) that are harder to get out of, even with a wiggling subbie?


There's lots of ties that are hard(er) to get out of when you tie japanese style. If you're partner can't hold an arched western hogtie, you might consider a japanese style hogtie (gyaku ebi), which basically consists of an arm-chest harness (takate-kote) and two folded legs. For many that's less sternuous, and longer to hold, while it's difficult to escape a well tied harness. The folded-leg-tie can also be applied to arms, and if tied well on all four limbs is one of the few ties that cannot be escaped.

Examples:
http://www.touwtjes.tk/galleries/delier1/img/p03.jpg
http://www.touwtjes.tk/galleries/delier1/img/g02.jpg

Another option might be a forced bow (japanese style: agura), a cross-legged postion with either the chest or the neck pulled towards the feet.
Example:
http://www.touwtjes.tk/galleries/Lilith3/img/DSC_0094a.jpg

One way to improve your overall skills is to tie, and then let your partner free himself. Pay close attention, and next time you know how to improve your tie.

But in the end it is very difficult to tie someone with rope in such a way that a) absolutely no escape is possible and b) no serious harm will occur in the short or long run. If that's an aboslute requirement, you might be better off with decent cuffs or chains.

(in reply to AllietheKitten)
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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 12:26:58 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?


I think what attracts me as a rope-Top is the versatility and flexibility of rope. Handcuffs are nice to make sure someone cannot escape, but with a few pieces of rope I can tie a few dozen different things from a standard hogtie to advanced suspensions, each with their own effect. From comfortable to painful and from stable to messing around with your sense of time and space.

Besides that, and musch more subjectively, I like the aesthetics too. Especially with hemp and jute rope, just plain natural materials.

Then again, if you like hard shiny steel better, no problem :-)

(in reply to Justme696)
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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 1:51:26 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?


I think what attracts me as a rope-Top is the versatility and flexibility of rope. Handcuffs are nice to make sure someone cannot escape, but with a few pieces of rope I can tie a few dozen different things from a standard hogtie to advanced suspensions, each with their own effect. From comfortable to painful and from stable to messing around with your sense of time and space.

Besides that, and musch more subjectively, I like the aesthetics too. Especially with hemp and jute rope, just plain natural materials.

Then again, if you like hard shiny steel better, no problem :-)



I sure like how it looks. I am just a person with les patience to try it....perhaps in time
But it is very intersting


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(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 2:01:05 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?



I wouldn't call it a human instinct.  I've seen enough humans go completely limp when they're bound to know that for some, giving in is automatic. 

I've been playing with rope for years, but only developed an appreciation for escape artists this past weekend when I watched someone take about 45 minutes to get himself out of a tie I'd put him in.  He'd started out with his hands behind his back up near his shoulder blades, and getting those loosed up enough to come around to the front wasn't easy.  Next time I get a chance to tie him, I'm going to make it more of a challenge.

(in reply to Justme696)
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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 2:19:43 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?



I wouldn't call it a human instinct.  I've seen enough humans go completely limp when they're bound to know that for some, giving in is automatic. 

I've been playing with rope for years, but only developed an appreciation for escape artists this past weekend when I watched someone take about 45 minutes to get himself out of a tie I'd put him in.  He'd started out with his hands behind his back up near his shoulder blades, and getting those loosed up enough to come around to the front wasn't easy.  Next time I get a chance to tie him, I'm going to make it more of a challenge.


hehe that sounds like fun


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~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

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RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 3:42:08 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm pretty sure that's why handcuffs were invented.


actually i thought the same. I am not a robe person, so could soem one (Dom{me})  explain me what is attracting about it?
We already had a thead about subs/slaves telling what it does to them.

I would try to escape too ;) it is human instict.
And wiggling ..doesn't that make the skill visible of the one making the knots?



i'm a robe person when Master allows me to wear one - hee hee - okay - i know - dumb joke, but i couldn't resist.

_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 3:45:07 PM   
ranrich


Posts: 50
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Learn how to tie the clove hitch, wrists and ankles. Impossible to get out of but easy to untie. Your sub will learn that the harder he tries to get out the tighter it gets.

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/16/2008 4:04:47 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranrich
Your sub will learn that the harder he tries to get out the tighter it gets.


Which, if you know anything about bondage, is exactly what you do not want with wrists and ankles.

(in reply to ranrich)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/18/2008 6:27:50 PM   
ta2dqt


Posts: 375
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Uh!!!!  I LOVE rope!!!  I ALWAYS want to learn more about ...."the ropes" of things!!!  ;)



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"People are like fine wine, they get better with age!"

"Everything happens for a reason."



myspace.com/theoneandonlyta2dqt

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/18/2008 6:46:42 PM   
phoenixinchains


Posts: 2534
Joined: 4/5/2007
From: i live here
Status: offline 		perhaps he needs to get it out of his system. my Mate has bound me soley to command me to escape within a time-limit. maybe this can help, remembering the ties is a little beyond me- phoenix

(in reply to ta2dqt)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/18/2008 7:00:29 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Bondage mittens are your friends. A lot of subs who escape from bondage do so because they can make their hand smaller than their wrist. They fold the thumb in and can get the hand to slide out of the wrist tie that way. Put a pair of socks balled up in their hand, have them make a fist, saran wrap and duct tape. This way they can't slide their hands free, and they can't use a couple of moving fingers to undo a knot.

Then tell them that if they don't get free inside of ten minutes they've got a particularly nasty play punishment coming.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/18/2008 11:11:11 PM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		Though its not the same as being helpful I must add, I love rope, I love everything about it... I am still learning but am already in love with it! 

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/19/2008 4:47:36 AM   
ViceVersa


Posts: 137
Joined: 11/29/2005
Status: offline 		A couple of things I keep in mind:

1) I find that the closer you can (reasonably) tie the elbows together behind the back, the better chance you have at preventing escape.

2) Finishing the tie on the opposite side of the body that the wrists are on helps - e.g., a waist-rope, wrists tied in back, using the remainder of the wrist rope as a crotch-rope and tying it off in front under the belly button.

In addition to tying up your partner and watching how they escape, consider being tied up yourself (yes...even if you're an UberDom). You'll learn a lot about what the body can and can't do, gain an understanding of what the bottom is experiencing, and improve your ties. The competition between the rope top and the escape artist can be fun!

Vice

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/19/2008 4:49:56 AM   
ViceVersa


Posts: 137
Joined: 11/29/2005
Status: offline 		Oh...and you might consider attending Shibaricon in May. I haven't been, but I'm going this year and can't wait.

Vice

(in reply to ViceVersa)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/19/2008 4:52:00 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ViceVersa

A couple of things I keep in mind:

1) I find that the closer you can (reasonably) tie the elbows together behind the back, the better chance you have at preventing escape.

2) Finishing the tie on the opposite side of the body that the wrists are on helps - e.g., a waist-rope, wrists tied in back, using the remainder of the wrist rope as a crotch-rope and tying it off in front under the belly button.

In addition to tying up your partner and watching how they escape, consider being tied up yourself (yes...even if you're an UberDom). You'll learn a lot about what the body can and can't do, gain an understanding of what the bottom is experiencing, and improve your ties. The competition between the rope top and the escape artist can be fun!

Vice



Escape???? Who would ever try to escape?

That position would not be comfortable to me. However, i guess I have never ever wanted to try to escape. I suppose if that was Masters idea of a good time. But the thought has never entered my mind.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 1/19/2008 4:53:06 AM >

(in reply to ViceVersa)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Bondage to fight against - 1/19/2008 5:00:23 AM   
ViceVersa


Posts: 137
Joined: 11/29/2005
Status: offline 		Well...I switch, luscious. When I bottom, I like to fight the ropes and the bondage needs to be inescapable or I feel frustrated and can't get into bottom space. I like some discomfort, as well. Too much ruins the sexual aspect of it, but just the right amount.... :-)

Vice

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 20
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