RE: From the bottom up

RE: From the bottom up (Full Version)

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MistressVnus -> RE: From the bottom up (1/20/2008 4:14:54 PM)
I really enjoyed your post. It reminded me of that song by Don Henley... "all the things i thought I knew, I had to learn again"

MasterFireMaam -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 12:26:51 AM)
I think we should each follow our bliss. If that includes starting at the bottom, then do it. If it doesn't, then don't. I think what's more important is finding the path that makes you a better PERSON, because being a better person means you're better at this no matter what side of the coin you're on. Master Fire

MistressVnus -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 5:45:26 AM)
quote: I think what's more important is finding the path that makes you a better PERSON, because being a better person means you're better at this no matter what side of the coin you're on. Absolutely, and even if your not on the coin at all. Guided introspect, psychotherapy, and reviewing one's own responsive behaviors to certain situations can only make one more spiritually in touch with the energies around them.

MistressVnus -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 12:06:49 PM)
quote: Ditto from me as well. Thank you so much.

LadyLolly -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 12:33:44 PM)
With few exceptions, I've learned to never say never <G>. As we watch the "youngsters" (rather than newbies) step out of the constrictive vanilla box and start discovering just how vast and wide the world can be..... Oh I could NEVER do that, can't imagine why anyone would ever want to do that - it's wrong, as they peek between thier fingers in horror. In time, it's not so strange and foriegn and they spectate with interest. In time they start fantasizing, eventually dip in a toe...... The more rigid an individual appears, the newer and less experienced I believe them to be. Some just trade one "box" for another. If we are open, the more we know, study, consider, comptemplate - the more we understand and grow. "Fear is the mind killer". What we understand, we do not fear, though it may indeed not be for us as an individual. There are indeed many differences between the formal styles and American "freestyle". Being taught and learning a formal style, an evolved collective of knowledge, versus winging it seat of the pants purely by what feels right by trial and error. Having walked on both sides of the fence, I know what I prefer for myself. If I were in need of a brain surgeon, I know what side of the training issue fence I'd be on too. If a Master didn't learn from the ground up in aprenticeship/service then a great deal of mentoring would be a very good way to go. Especially for understanding the mental conditioning tools and excercises, cause and effect, risk and benefit. We may have been born with our natures and preferences - but knowledge is acquired and learned. I would not care to be an experiement of cause and effect for that brain surgeon....a submissive should be aware that an untrained dominant is experimenting. Just as a bottom should know that the top is untrained and learning or if they are knowlegable and competant. Refusal to seek knowledge from others with more or varied experienced is sheer ego and arrogance. And we know no Dominants suffer from that........ROFL. As to the question of training from the bottom up. I once had a submissive under a protective collar for a while. Quite some time after release I was suprised to find her now a Pro-top/domme. When asked how she'd made this transistion she replied, "Oh, it was easy really, I just thought to myself how would Lady Lolly handle it".

MistressVnus -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 2:19:50 PM)
I'm going back to your original post here, as reading it again sparked a thought..... quote: Not a submissive bone in my body but along the previous reasoning and due to close association with the leather community. I chose to serve - briefly. Was not a good experience. Bound and helpless, the master (deliberately not capped) announced he intended to cross the line on a hard limit. I fully believed he intended to. There was nothing I was in a position to do that could stop him. The point being...with my mentor, his story was"somewhat" similar, in that the one thing he couldn't stand....nipple play, was the one thing the Mistress he was sent to train under for the weekend, kept doing. She just kept tweaking his nipples. AND, she was fully aware of this as one of his "CAN'T STANT IT's". I'm just wondering if this isn't "intentionally " done to drive home the psychological impact of not respecting someone's hard limits, absolute disdains, or irreconsilible intoleranes. Just food for thought. And, thank you for your thoughts. A very similar philosophy someone taught me...(I think it's even Bhuddist, originally, or something akin) is....."to be teachable, one must be humble."

LadyLolly -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 3:37:49 PM)
Actually, in this particular case I don't believe it was a lesson as much as either a trap deliberately laid or he "snapped" in "dom" space. Anal rape is a little different than nipple tweaking, especially when there are medical conditions involved that exclude the activity,. Fortunately, his slave did save his life and I learned many valuable lessons. Will put the fear of God in someone if they don't have safe calls put in place the first time they are in my hands alone..... I've never had color codes unless I deliberately sought them. Top awareness is very important - as many have noted, bottoms often get into a space where they are somewhat oblivious. The top needs to maintain thier own self control and be aware when it's time to back off or stop. Besides, a twueee Lady always leaves them hungry for mooooooooorreeeeeeeee. <WEG>.

MistressVnus -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 4:13:04 PM)
quote: Besides, a twueee Lady always leaves them hungry for mooooooooorreeeeeeeee. <WEG>. ROFL...my mentor used to say...."always leaving them wanting a little bit more than they'll ever get." On a more serious side, however, I'm so sorry that you had to experience that and I agree 100% that code words are useless if the Dominant can not control their "top space." They are a mute point. And, you had the good fortune of an onlooker to intervene. THANK GOODNESS!! One is to learn to be in control of their "sadistic" or Dominant cravings, not let the desires and craving be in control of them.

LadyLolly -> RE: From the bottom up (1/21/2008 7:59:21 PM)
(smile) it sounds like we all might have attended the same school.... It was quite deliberate on my part that his slave was there. I knew her as well. And she knew me well enough to take my promise seriously, interfere and risk punishment...... We all take risks, especially when we put ourselves in the power of others. CYA is something I practice, preach and pound home every chance I get. Also that if you cannot control yourself, you have no business controlling others. Above all, do no harm. I take that literally and it covers not only the physical, but mentally, emotionally, spiritually and financially. A pretty tall order if you are flying by the seat of your pants experimenting while pushing the envelope. Fools rush.......

MistressVnus -> RE: From the bottom up (1/22/2008 3:39:30 AM)
....in, where brave men dare not go" Lady Lolly, Thanks so much for sharing a part of yourself on this thread. I have found your input to be delightful. And, yes....I think we may have come from very similar schools.....smile

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