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Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:02:07 PM

Aneirin

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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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My idea of D/s, I have been told by others is incorrect. Incorrect in that my understanding of who is and who is not the real dominant person within a D/s relationship.

Maybe I think too deep, but my understanding that within a relationship, it is the submissive that is the real dominant.

I will explain my thoughts;

My understanding is in a D/s relationship, the discussion that foregoes any play situations is a situation where limits are discussed. Now it is my understanding that it is the submissive that draws the line as to what can be done and what cannot. As to the Dominant party, once the limit is drawn, it is up to them whether they go there or not, but they have a limit if they do.

Also, safewords, the utterance of stops a situation from going any further, a safety switch perhaps, and in the control of the submissive and quite rightly so.

So, there are my reasons for my understanding that a submissive is in control of a play situation, and therefore can be looked upon as being the real dominant.

It is me, to watch and understand, my aims are to get what I want, but I am aware of what another does not want and will not cross a line hitherto agreed.

So, I have explained my thoughts, tell me, am I wrong in those thoughts, have I got it completely wrong?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

Post #: 1

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:05:24 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

A - you know our thoughts already. Submission is not dominance - once you submit to someone or in a scene, you don't control it - that would be topping from below in the bad way that people like to throw that comment around.

Not that there isn't power in submission, there is - but you mix it up with dominance.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 2

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:16:50 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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A dominant once told me the same - that the submissive fully controls the relationship, in that she ultimately controls the pace and direction of where they go and what the dominant is able to do with her.

In my slavery this is not the case at all. All we do is at his choosing. He decided the pace of things and I place no limits as to how he manages me. He pushes me hard. I can protest all I want, but if he wants to continue then we will continue. I don't control anything in this relationship except my behavior (and even then, he'll say that's questionable, haha).

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 3

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:19:06 PM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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Yes, but I need clarification on my thoughts.

My thoughts are that a submissive does not Top from the bottom, but prior to a play situation, they say what they do not want, their limits. I respect a person's limits and will not go beyond.A relationship I have with a person I believe is based upon trust, if I break a person's limits, then I am beyond trust, and there the relationship suffers.

My thoughts as to a submissive being the one in control, is based purely on respect for their limits.

For example, I might want to do something another has an innate fear of, a massive dislike, whatever, fair enough, limits can be explored, but only in a submissives agreement.

To me, to do something outside of a person's most extreme comfort zone, can ruin a bond of trust.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 4

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:24:19 PM

beargonewild

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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I feel you are partially correct with you concept of a D/s relationship. To a certain extent a sub will state what they find is acceptable with them regarding what is to be done and what isn't. Yes we will state our limits, according to how we perceive them, usually when a Dom asks. As time passes and we learn to give more and more trust to our Dom, that slowly erodes away until we fully trust and therefore the control is back with our Dom.

When stating limits in a play situation, we may be controlling the situation but just for that specific situation, yet I see that as a brief and temporary condition. Once we remove that self imposed illusion, we fully understand that the control had always been with our Dom.

Granted many of us subs do automatically spout what our limits are and sometimes too often. I believe much of this has to do either not reaching a level of trust we should have with our Dom or falling into the "pack" mentality of all the other subs have them and I want then too.

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 5

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:31:14 PM

Wisenlilminx

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Joined: 2/11/2007
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I think of the idea of the rules, the limits safe words to be important for play, and in the beginning of a relationship.
A relationship is more than just rules.

If you get to know her well enough, you can expand those limits ( by the way, you don't HAVE to want to expand those limits, but I think most of us want to.)

Each has a responsibility to do the right things in a relationship. If you callously go too far too often, it's not going to work.There can be a point where you don't negotiate every detail. If you take her to a better place, well, at least most of the time, you don't have to worry about wether she's going to curtail something. Get good at what you do, and she'll be glad that she can surrender control. You'll be too.

WiseProtector

< Message edited by Wisenlilminx -- 1/19/2008 3:32:24 PM >

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 6

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:31:35 PM

ta2dqt

Posts: 375
Joined: 3/3/2006
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I heard of both scenarios.

I know it is different w/ every BDSM "relationship" .

Just.......... depends ................

_____________________________

"Ask not that your Dom can do for you, but what you can do for your Dom."

"People are like fine wine, they get better with age!"

"Everything happens for a reason."

myspace.com/theoneandonlyta2dqt

(in reply to beargonewild)

Post #: 7

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:36:16 PM

Level

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You would think a subject like who is in control between two people, in a D/s relationship, would be fairly cut and dried. But.... it's more like a field of snow, no two flakes are the same.

Many, many different levels of control, flowing back and forth.

Is there a "pure" standard of D and s? Where it should be A + B= The Right Way?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to beargonewild)

Post #: 8

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:38:38 PM

ownedgirlie

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Hey there, who are you calling a flake??

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 9

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:39:02 PM

Gwynvyd

Posts: 4949
Status: offline

I think it is all a matter of semantics ( I live with the Queen of semantics... *sighs* ) but I think the submissive in any D/s relationship does have more control in said realtionship then what most people do give them credit with.

It also depends on the style of Dom/me you have on your hands as well.

Personaly I build trusting friendships with my subs first and grow that bond first and foremost before any of the kinky bits or sexual things come into play.

They let me know thier bounderies, which can be pushed, which they wish to be pushed, and which are hard limits. I learn thier history and peice together why they have those bounderies in the first place. What is and is not safe with them mentaly, emotionaly, and physicaly ( medical history is known by this point)

The submissives input has brought me to these conculsions and I make some of my own of course.. but in essence thier info brought me to that point. I have likes of my own that most subs I play with do not enjoy... I do not inflict it apon them.. I play within thier likes, not merely just my own. ( I have got a big enough list)

How they are reacting durring a scene determines how hard I go... if I back off. ( all common sense) but again it is the submissive's input even if non verbal. There is a great strength in submitting ones self to another that I think is often over looked.

I had written it all out on my other profile when it was active I wish I still had it somewhere but it was something simular to
Because I kneel does not make me weak, because I beg does not make me less, because I give myself totaly to another where I am no longer myself at all does not make me less of a person. It makes me more of my true self. More of a woman. I do all of this because I chose to entrust someone else with all that is me. There is great strength in that.

I detest when people equate submissive or bottom with doormat, needy, or lacking. Some are quite strong.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 10

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:39:31 PM

bellanotte

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Tornado Alley, USA
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I think what you are forgetting in your argument here is that submissives are not the only ones who set limits.

If a submissive was the only person who set a limit, then your case might (or might not) hold water. But Dominants DO have limits too. They are not as frequently visible as the submissive's limits, because it is the Dominant performing the act, but there are things the Dominant will not do, just as there are things the submissive will not do.

Also, all of the Dominants I have been involved with or have played with have certain behaviors that if shown in a submissive, would result in a cancellation of the relationship (or scene). This behavior may differ from person to person. In my current collar, there are two things that would result in loss of collar if I did them.

I think the difference is that, we tend to just call a Dominant's limits "rules" and a submissive's... "limits." But some of those "rules" of the Dominant's are limits every bit as personal and needing absolute trust on the part of the submissive partner, as the submissive's limits need absolute trust on the part of the Dominant.

_____________________________

"The world is not yet exhausted; let me see something tomorrow which I never saw before." -Samuel Johnson

“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.” -Joseph Campbell

(in reply to beargonewild)

Post #: 11

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:39:48 PM

MissMagnolia

Posts: 3636
Status: offline

I thought he called you a fake.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 12

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:40:50 PM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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Ha! Well he certainly wouldn't be the first.

But hey if I was a fake, I'd have chosen a completely different body.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)

Post #: 13

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:42:09 PM

meticulousgirl

Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline

No one in this lifestyle agrees on every topic.

you play your way, and they will play theirs, think of how boring life would be if we all did everything like a bunch of robots......

i mean for years i was told i lived this the wrong way and yeah even with the wrong person. i'm happy, i'm a slave, and what matters to me right here and now is what i'm doing and doing it with and i'm happy. i learned very fast not to take everything everyone says on these sites to heart because not a single one of us is the same, and no one else on this site is me so they dont know what i want, what i like, or what i need in order to survive, and in order to be happy.

best wishes always to everyone

~meticulous~

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 14

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:45:29 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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In a situation as you desribed it, yes, I believe the submissive is indeed the one in control. However, I would not involve myself in a situation such as the one you described.

First on the topic of limits. I don't believe that limits should be set on things that you don't like, haven't yet tried or are afraid of. Limits are things that you will never do under any situation because they go against your morals or ethics and would irreparably damage you to cross that line. If you take limits down to that level then it is not so difficult to find a partner who's limits are in line with your own. That ends the limit discussion there and thus doesn't place the submissive in a position of control. I don't believe in the concept of no limit slavery, everyone has limits, it's part of the human condition. But if you partner with someone who's limits match yours, limits become a moot point.

As for safewords, I personally don't believe in their use at all but, for those who choose to use them I don't believe that they should be used because the submissive is not liking the action taking place or because they are uncomfortable with the intensity. When communication needs to happen, whether by safe word or just straight forward communication, that there is an issue that needs to be addressed because the submissive is concerned about impending HARM, it is the Dominant's responsibility to assess that issue and decide if play should stop or continue. Again, the submissive is not in control and the ultimate decision belongs to the Dominant. If that communication is ignored and ultimately harm is done....the partners have a lot bigger issue than who is in control and the submissive may just want to re-examine her choice in partner.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 15

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:50:40 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

Also, safewords, the utterance of stops a situation from going any further, a safety switch perhaps, and in the control of the submissive and quite rightly so.

We tend to forget that a dominant can stop a scene any time he/she wants and they don’t need a safe word, they just stop. There have been lots of times I was ready and willing to continue but accepted the fact that he was done for whatever reason.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 16

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:55:05 PM

bellanotte

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Tornado Alley, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

Also, safewords, the utterance of stops a situation from going any further, a safety switch perhaps, and in the control of the submissive and quite rightly so.

We tend to forget that a dominant can stop a scene any time he/she wants and they don’t need a safe word, they just stop. There have been lots of times I was ready and willing to continue but accepted the fact that he was done for whatever reason.

Exactly.

Just as the Dominant has limits as well as the submissive, the Dominant shares responsibility for the duration, control of intensity, etc of a scene. It is a symbiosis really, when it works well..... and if it is not working well, probably you are with the wrong person.

_____________________________

"The world is not yet exhausted; let me see something tomorrow which I never saw before." -Samuel Johnson

“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.” -Joseph Campbell

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 17

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 3:58:25 PM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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I do concur with you, bellanotte. I had tried to write out how I thought from my unique point of view as a sub, without attempting to project onto what a Dom may think. And I will be the first to admit many of my views are either far fetched or if I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about! *grins*

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to bellanotte)

Post #: 18

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 4:06:13 PM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Hey there, who are you calling a flake??

All of us!!

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 19

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/19/2008 4:08:33 PM

bellanotte

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Tornado Alley, USA
Status: offline

my apologies..... i have not been to the message boards for awhile and forgot the lil detail that the "post reply" button "answered" the last person to post. My comments were targeted towards the OP... but I am glad you agree!

_____________________________

"The world is not yet exhausted; let me see something tomorrow which I never saw before." -Samuel Johnson

“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.” -Joseph Campbell

(in reply to beargonewild)

Post #: 20

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