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No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 2:04:34 PM

rayvnn

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this one really hates people...well mostly bus drivers. *shakes her head sadly* (if any of the Free are bus drivers, this one apologizes, heh)

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23433561-details/Goth+taken+for+walks+on+a+leash+banned+from+bus+by+driver+who+says+%27no+dogs+allowed%27/article.do

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 2:14:32 PM

MistressNoName

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While I don't share your sentiment about bus drivers (my loving brother drives one), I deplore what happened to those two. It's disgusting and I hope that bus driver is reprimanded severely. And the bus company sued. And this a day after we celebrate MLK day (yes, I realize it happened in the UK). Discrimination is intolerable.

MNN

< Message edited by MistressNoName -- 1/22/2008 2:15:39 PM >

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 2:24:10 PM

Stephann

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While I agree, the bus driver's a jerk, I also feel that when you do things that you know, clearly, are going to violate social norms that you're going to be faced with these sorts of issues. That, to me, is part of the repercussions for my flaunting my lifestyle choice.

Addtionally, there was a part of the article that had me irked a bit. She made it clear she doesn't cook, clean, or go anywhere without her owner (the assumption here is that she doesn't work either.) Later, I saw this tidbit:

"The couple, who live on benefits in a council house and plan to start a family, have been friends for years."

Erm... I could be reading this wrong, but doesn't this mean they live on welfare, yet are trying to have kids? I'm all for people living their dreams, but when they start expecting their fellow taxpayers to finance them... that's a real problem to me. Looking at their photos, either of them easily spent more on their outfit than I do on a weeks worth of clothes. Goth clothing is NOT cheap.

Stephan

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 2:37:19 PM

Tantriqu

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I see the length of the lead as a health-and-safety issue, too. Who do you think would be the first to sue if the lead were caught or stepped on, or used as a weapon? Goth/collar? Fine. Leather lead on the streets? Who cares? 2 yards of chainmetal on public transport? No.
Perhaps the busdriver was reacting to the sexist trauma of a woman on a leash. Anyone ask him how he feels?
And how much money to get this settled and the bus driver through anger management and trauma counselling when he should be doing what he's paid to do, which is drive the bus?

Yep, if they're otherwise healthy, they've violated My rights if they don't work for a living/go to school/clean their own flat. I demand reparation!

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 2:51:18 PM

CalifChick

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Stephan, thank you once again for articulating so clearly what I was thinking but could not quite find the words for, without being terribly offensive.

Cali
(puts her tin foil hat on so Stephan will stop reading her mind)

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 3:00:02 PM

Stephann

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Sure, Cali.

See, I'm a little envious. We'd LOVE to be able to lead charlotte on a leash in public. Yet in our dinky little town, there'd probably looks of shock and horror. I can't imagine if we bumped into her boss at Alberton's. She wouldn't lose her job, but she'd certainly lose the respect of her peers.

Even in LA, where you see all manner of bizarreness, I would expect that many shops and restaurants wouldn't serve us (or serve us with any degree of friendliness.) So we find venues to use the leash where it won't create toooooo much of a stir (dungeons mainly.)

Stephan

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 3:14:05 PM

CalifChick

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Well, see Stephan, I'm planning this little thing in Maui for Halloween. You can catch some glimpses here and here and in light of this one, I don't think charlotte on a leash would be an issue. Most of the more risque pics are here.

Cali Hefner
(any excuse for a party)

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 3:21:31 PM

slaveboyforyou

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You know, there is a time and place for everything. I am sorry, but this guy and his fiance are fucking retards. I really like his use of the word, "fascist." I wonder if he even know what real fascism is. I like kink and the things we all do too folks, but I would never walk around the middle of the day in public like that. You do realize that there are little UM's with their mothers, old people, and people who just don't want to be subjected to other's lifestyle choices. This little asshole and his gal are just disrespectful shitheads that believe everyone owes them something. Respect is earned, but it's hard to learn that lesson when you live on welfare in public housing.

Bravo to the bus driver, and shame on this little twit.

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 3:26:15 PM

popeye1250

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 3:33:00 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

"The couple, who live on benefits in a council house and plan to start a family, have been friends for years."

Erm... I could be reading this wrong, but doesn't this mean they live on welfare, yet are trying to have kids?

Not necessarily. My great nephew gets a death benefit because my neice was killed by a drunk driver. He'll get those benefits as long as he stays in school or until he turns.. I think it's 21 if he leaves school. He's also eligible for housing for that same reason.

quote:

Looking at their photos, either of them easily spent more on their outfit than I do on a weeks worth of clothes. Goth clothing is NOT cheap.

Stephan

Well, goth clothing 'can' be cheap, especially if you find a good outlet which has bin sales. I got a great dress normally marked at $110.00 dollars and I picked it up for $29 bucks at a Hot Topics bin sale, so, there are cheapouts if you know where to look and Ebay almost always has some great stuff in the way of alternative fashion for far less than retail outlets.

Celeste

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 4:09:44 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

You know, there is a time and place for everything. I am sorry, but this guy and his fiance are fucking retards. I really like his use of the word, "fascist." I wonder if he even know what real fascism is. I like kink and the things we all do too folks, but I would never walk around the middle of the day in public like that. You do realize that there are little UM's with their mothers, old people, and people who just don't want to be subjected to other's lifestyle choices. This little asshole and his gal are just disrespectful shitheads that believe everyone owes them something. Respect is earned, but it's hard to learn that lesson when you live on welfare in public housing.

Bravo to the bus driver, and shame on this little twit.

People used to say the same about gays holding hands.

The article did not say they were on welfare.

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 4:41:16 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

People used to say the same about gays holding hands.

The article did not say they were on welfare.

That is hardly the same thing, and you know it. The article did say they were on "benefits" and lived in a council house. What do you think benefits and council houses are? I have news for you....It's welfare. The guy is young and abled bodied, and so is his fiance. You can see that by the photo of them. So why aren't they out looking for a job instead of playing Halloween 365 days a year on the public transports? Stop trying to turn this idiot's story into a human rights issue. It's not. He and his little girlfriend are pissed off because they didn't get their way. I am willing to bet they have gone through their entire life with a sense of entitlement. You don't dress like that if you want to get a REAL job. I don't care how cosmopolitan of a city you live in.

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 5:14:27 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

People used to say the same about gays holding hands.

The article did not say they were on welfare.

That is hardly the same thing, and you know it. The article did say they were on "benefits" and lived in a council house. What do you think benefits and council houses are? I have news for you....It's welfare. The guy is young and abled bodied, and so is his fiance. You can see that by the photo of them. So why aren't they out looking for a job instead of playing Halloween 365 days a year on the public transports? Stop trying to turn this idiot's story into a human rights issue. It's not. He and his little girlfriend are pissed off because they didn't get their way. I am willing to bet they have gone through their entire life with a sense of entitlement. You don't dress like that if you want to get a REAL job. I don't care how cosmopolitan of a city you live in.

Wow, you know a lot about this guy! Funny that i've seen this article posted on a couple vanilla sites i'm on, and none of them had nearly as much anger as you do... Perhaps it's a bit of jealousy? i'll admit it, i'm jealous as hell of her! Real jobs may be necessary, but they're certainly not worth living for.

i am curious how you consider this completely different than gays holding hands. i bet they heard a lot of the same arguments in both cases... "It's unnatural" "I don't want to see that" "I don't want my children to see that" "What people do in the privacy of their own homes is their business... blah blah blah"

But at the core of the issue, i just have two questions:
Who are their actions harming, and how?
How does her leash interfere with the bus driver's ability to do his job?

Without a plausible answer to at least one of those questions, i'm absolutely on their side (although i agree, the boy needs to study some history)

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 5:23:17 PM

CalifChick

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The "gays holding hands" comparison doesn't wash. Other people hold hands; people of the same gender are now holding hands.

Unless you can argue that one group of people can walk around with another group of people on a leash, and now you want the same thing for your group of people, then you'll have to find a different comparison.

Cali

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 5:29:47 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

But at the core of the issue, i just have two questions:
Who are their actions harming, and how?
How does her leash interfere with the bus driver's ability to do his job?

Well, I don't think it's too hard to figure out how wearing a chain around your neck on a moving vehicle might be dangerous. How could it harm others? Well people could trip on it. They could run into it, etc.

The bus driver is charged with controlling the bus, and I am pretty sure there is two sides to this story. We are only hearing this goth guy's version of it. There are a few practical reasons for you. Now as for your comment on my anger. I am not angry. I just don't believe every one that has a persecution story. I just don't believe that is the way it went down, and I think this guy was probably being a prick. I really don't understand people that think it's funny to scare the straights during daylight hours. I am not even going to try to explain to you how this is different from holding hands (gay or straight). You know it is, and I am not going to get into a silly little argument about it. No one violated this guy's civil rights by refusing to lead his girlfriend on a leash on board a public bus.

It may not be fun to work, and I don't encourage anyone to live for their job as you say. But we all should have to do it, whether we like it or not. You certainly shouldn't be thinking of starting a family when you don't work or have a respectable means of support.

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 5:58:23 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
Unless you can argue that one group of people can walk around with another group of people on a leash, and now you want the same thing for your group of people, then you'll have to find a different comparison.

Cali

i've often seen parents keeping their children on leashes in public places.

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 6:19:55 PM

TheHeretic

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I was generally sympathetic, until I got to this line in the article, The couple, who live on benefits in a council house and plan to start a family... Now I say, get a haircut and a job. Do the Brits investigate welfare fraud? Those looked like pricey boots.

*edit: Damn. I replied right after reading the link. Somebody beat me to the comment.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 1/22/2008 6:22:41 PM >

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 6:32:10 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

But at the core of the issue, i just have two questions:
Who are their actions harming, and how?
How does her leash interfere with the bus driver's ability to do his job?

Well, I don't think it's too hard to figure out how wearing a chain around your neck on a moving vehicle might be dangerous. How could it harm others? Well people could trip on it. They could run into it, etc.

i see that boldfacing "harming" wasn't enough, but i'm too lazy to look for my thesaurus. i'll type slowly.

i'm on a leash, minding my own business. You are suffering some sort of calculable harm or loss (as Thomas Jefferson put it, breaking your leg or picking your pocket). What form is this harm or loss taking, here and now, and how is my leash directly contributing to it? i don't want some "well an airplane could fall out of the sky and land on your car" crap... A passenger could just as easily trip on the strap of a backpack or purse- probably far more likely, in fact, since those are more likely to be placed on the floor. i could up with a hypothetical reason not to do any damn thing, it means nothing.

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 7:25:48 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
That is hardly the same thing, and you know it.

I know it? You know what I know now....amazing! Are you channeling my brain? That would explain my headache tonight.

quote:

The article did say they were on "benefits" and lived in a council house. What do you think benefits and council houses are? I have news for you....It's welfare.

Thank you for the education. I actually did not know what a council house is. I looked it up, later. So much for "...and you know it."

quote:

The guy is young and abled bodied, and so is his fiance. You can see that by the photo of them.

Once again, your channeling skills are working hard. While I'm not an advocate of abusing welfare systems, I can hardly tell what someone's ailment might be simply by looking at a photo. I'm impressed if you can!!

quote:

So why aren't they out looking for a job instead of playing Halloween 365 days a year on the public transports?

Maybe one of them was escorting the other to a job interview, for all we know. As for playing Halloween, no comment. I don't feel emotionally affected by the way people dress, so I don't need to deride them for it. I'm interested why you do...?

quote:

Stop trying to turn this idiot's story into a human rights issue. It's not.

. I don't know what it is, actually. But I'm not so quick to decide, based on a photo and a couple of photos. I was offering a different side of the equation, but it seems to have struck a nerve, oddly enough.

quote:

He and his little girlfriend are pissed off because they didn't get their way. I am willing to bet they have gone through their entire life with a sense of entitlement.

WOW lots of assumption there. Let me guess - more channeling?

quote:

You don't dress like that if you want to get a REAL job. I don't care how cosmopolitan of a city you live in.

Um, ever been to Starbucks?

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RE: No pets allowed. - 1/22/2008 7:28:23 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

The "gays holding hands" comparison doesn't wash. Other people hold hands; people of the same gender are now holding hands.

Unless you can argue that one group of people can walk around with another group of people on a leash, and now you want the same thing for your group of people, then you'll have to find a different comparison.

Cali

I'm pretty sure two gay men holding hands in the 50's would be receiving similar reactions. That was my point. How is that any different than going against societal norms today?

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