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RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 12:17:12 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

As a submissive - I have total power - as a woman I have total power. I can turn a head I choose if I wish with something I can do, or a way I move, the clothing I wear, and even my behaviour.

But IMO - to have power is different to having control.

Dominants have control. Huge difference.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to DeepWaters)

Post #: 21

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 12:37:42 PM

KCMOLucky

Posts: 121
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Kansas City, Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters

Its a funny dynamic if you think about it---

There are more dominant men in search of fewer submissive women---
which should makes us compete for your attention--

-which leaves you the supposed submissive with the "Power" of choosing the best Dom...

but a Dom by nature does not chase a woman, they come to him.

But it does beg the question:

Who really has the power
in this lifestyle dating realm?

quote:

-which leaves you the supposed submissive with the "Power" of choosing the best Dom...

Well, I suppose my question would be When did having a choice become wrong?

God knows I don't want a slave kissing my feet only because I was a 'last resort'. I don't want a girl to say "Yes, Mistress" only because she's putting another in my place. I want mine to be happy, and WANT to be with me, and I them.

Personally, I think most of your 'supposed philosophy' is more like rhetoric stupidity spewed about to entice people into thinking you're a 'deep thinker'.

_____________________________

I don't have PMS, I just disagree with you.

(in reply to DeepWaters)

Post #: 22

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 4:50:19 PM

Delvin

Posts: 151
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

Control is an illusion -

Power is nothing more then feeding the illusion that you have control over the Power.

Without the Master, you can not have a slave. Each one seeks what the other has to complete them. Call it a gift, calling, need, desire whatever you wish, the end result is without one, the other simply lives the Illusion.

Once the two or more get together, the Illusion comes full circle, unless you have tied up females in the basements against their will (The FBI is currently looking for you), then you are simply taking what the other Offers. Anyone at anytime can end it and walk away. If not, the FBI is currently looking for you.

Don't look too deep into a shallow well.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)

Post #: 23

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 4:55:52 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Here's a slightly different spin. I've always believed that the person who has the ultimate power in ANY relationship (D/S or vanilla) is the one who has the least invested emotionally. IMO, the one with the least emotional investment is more likely to end the relationship if things aren't going well. Who was it that said that he who has the power to destroy something controls it? This could be either the Dom or the sub.

All the other stuff - limits, wants, needs, etc - is roleplay, IMO. Fun roleplay, but roleplay nonetheless.

I understand it is a different spin, but I don't agree with the idea that "least invested emotionally" is being more powerful. This implies that the person with less emotion is more powerful than the one with emotions. Would this mean the psychopath with no emotional feeling is our most powerful of individuals in society? Does this mean a man like Stalin or Hitler have been the most powerful political leaders in modern history for they have destroyed much? I contend it is not what one destroys that demonstrates power, but what one is capable of building and does build. Some of the most powerful people I know are extremely passionate emotional people. Their emotions are part of their power... it is part of their power because they control their emotions and use them, instead of their emotions controlling and using them. Anyone can destroy something, but to build something is a demonstration of power. We constantly see and hear stories of Dominant and submissive personalities that have built powerful relationships as well as some that have destroyed relationships and caused suffering for others and themselves. Who is it that we admire in this lifestyle? In part, I admire individuals that have built long lasting and dynamic relationships. My admiration is a sign of recognition of the power and achievement these individuals have.

KoM

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 24

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 5:19:34 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Delvin

Control is an illusion -

Power is nothing more then feeding the illusion that you have control over the Power.

Without the Master, you can not have a slave. Each one seeks what the other has to complete them. Call it a gift, calling, need, desire whatever you wish, the end result is without one, the other simply lives the Illusion.

Once the two or more get together, the Illusion comes full circle, unless you have tied up females in the basements against their will (The FBI is currently looking for you), then you are simply taking what the other Offers. Anyone at anytime can end it and walk away. If not, the FBI is currently looking for you.

Don't look too deep into a shallow well.

mmmmm control is an illusion?

as an example... i can't control that I need to eat as a human being to live.

But then I can choose if I wish to live or not... and therefore I can control if I will eat or not based on my choice if I wish to live. It is not an illusion to choose to live or die.. its real. I also can choose how often I will eat or what I eat, and where I eat all empowered by my orginally choice to live.

Secondly, As an individual I am already complete! This very moment I am not more or less than I could be at this very moment. I am exactly as I am, the next moment I could be more or i could be less.

However, in perspective of a relationship, the relationship is not complete unless the aspects of a particular relationship exists. The Father/son, Boyfriend/Girlfriend, Husband/Wife, Master/slave are not complete unless both sides exist. I am but a part of a my Master/slave relationships. As an individual I am complete.. when one expands the perspective to relationships and beyond so does one expands the requirements to have completion.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Delvin)

Post #: 25

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 5:58:54 PM

MsIncognito

Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

KnightofMists, you've taken what I've said and given it a significantly broader scope than I ever intended. The original question was about relationships between individuals. My response discussed relationships between individuals. Nowhere did anyone ask about or reply to a question about power and control in politics or society in general. IMO, those are two very different situations with very different dynamics and possible outcomes. Is there a politics or news forum here at CM? If there is, this might be a good thought to pose there.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 26

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 6:20:02 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

politics and society is made up of individuals in relationships. when you attach a principle to the foundation individuals in there relationships .. it will shape what is above our society.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 27

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 6:27:34 PM

MsIncognito

Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

The dynamics of interpersonal relationships are quite different from those of nations as are the potential repercussions. To attempt to equate the two is folly, IMO, and getting quite off topic.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 28

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 6:47:49 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I don't equate the two... one is the foundation of the other... to deny that society and politics functions somehow uniquely seperate than the basic foundation of one on one relationships is foolhardy. Like any relationships - as one increases the number involved in relationship dynamics... the dynamics of the whole is exponential affected. However, the whole will still have the principles of the foundation rippling thru to the whole. The presidents of two super powers are still a one on one relationship with the additional complexities that society brings... to consider the one to be most power just because they will destory the relationship is in my opinion flawed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

The dynamics of interpersonal relationships are quite different from those of nations as are the potential repercussions. To attempt to equate the two is folly, IMO, and getting quite off topic.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 29

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 8/31/2005 7:06:05 PM

MstrHellsFury

Posts: 388
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

no wonder I didn't dive into this three foot pool...not that I'd crack my head on the bottom...I'd just drown...

Fury

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 30

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 6:29:29 AM

slavedesires

Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtahGoddess

Power is like a tide, it never rests completely on one shore.

Ms Sandi

i am not into deep thought this morning....but i must contemplate this for it is profound.
thank you Ms Sandi

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to UtahGoddess)

Post #: 31

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 6:36:13 AM

slavedesires

Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters

Its a funny dynamic if you think about it---

There are more dominant men in search of fewer submissive women---
which should makes us compete for your attention--

-which leaves you the supposed submissive with the "Power" of choosing the best Dom...

but a Dom by nature does not chase a woman, they come to him.

But it does beg the question:

Who really has the power
in this lifestyle dating realm?

in light of your question..... is the bottom really in charge after all and who really has the power?

i am sort of confused cause is not a bottom different than a submssive?

does a bottom "date/court" for long term like a submissive would?

i bottomed while in search of long term, but in being a bottom, it was for the expereince of exploring my needs and desires.

for me, being a bottom and a submissive is not the same.
just my 2 cents in the collective penny jar.

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to DeepWaters)

Post #: 32

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 7:15:17 AM

Dracironsgirl

Posts: 175
Joined: 7/2/2005
Status: offline

isnt it true the sub has the power in the beginning then ultimately gives it up wantingly in the end tho ??
i'm confused

_____________________________

~love a Man in control~

(in reply to DeepWaters)

Post #: 33

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 9:56:48 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dracironsgirl

isnt it true the sub has the power in the beginning then ultimately gives it up wantingly in the end tho ??
i'm confused

Everyone has power in the beginning.

Everyone has power in the process.

Everyone has power in the end.

For me, the slave transfers authority OVER her power to the dominant. But everyone still maintains their own power, and in positive cases, actually INCREASE power.

(in reply to Dracironsgirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 4:22:15 PM

FLButtSlut

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

Comparing the emotional investment the leaders of this world have with the emotional investment of a person in love is not exactly going to correlate. What you missed KnightofMists is the concept that the psychopaths and Hitlers of the world are without emotion. Hitler was totally ruled by his emotions. His upbringing and lack of self worth (don't forget Hitler himself was Jewish) were the guiding factors of his reign of terror. Pyschopaths, likewise are not "unemotional" when they kill. Their emotions are so confused and out of control, their actions become what they are. Lack of remorse does not mean "unemotional". The joy and pleasure derived from their acts certainly counts as an emotion.

MsIncognito has an excellent point. The one who does not feel as strongly towards the one "head over heels" certainly has the power in the relationship. I think everyone here, Dom, Domina, Master, Slave or Sub can think of at least once in their life when they were very anamored of someone who didn't feel the same way. At those times, we wait for a look, a word, something from that person. Think of your high school crush, and what a fool you probably made of yourself trying to get their attention. And your crush had the "power" to make or break your day just by smiling at you or saying hello.

Of course, I would hate to think that that we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima because President Truman didn't get laid and was pissed off.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 4:46:19 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

What you missed KnightofMists is the concept that the psychopaths and Hitlers of the world are without emotion. Hitler was totally ruled by his emotions.

This doesn't make sense either he has emotion or doesn't.. did you type this wrong?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to FLButtSlut)

Post #: 36

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 7:56:31 PM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

general post to all.....

power and control,..who?

ok. my 2 cents. both parties are somewhat equal,..in that as an adult,..yes,..i can walk out the door when i want to. no mistress can stop that.
as an adult SHE can say, get out. hell, my ex wives did it. doesn't matter really, does it?

so, yeah. both are equal there.
---okay moving along here...
being together and no one leaving scenario..
i have to say then,
change these names ==She is table and he is chair. i detest the other names. too many connotations.
"I"-------personally............feel,........Table has the power because chair gave it up TO the Table. and willingly i will add.
maleFemale--femaleMale...femaleFemale maleMale...pick one..Table and chair...
i believe Table has the power over the chair.

wolf

< Message edited by lonewolf05 -- 9/1/2005 7:57:53 PM >

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 37

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/1/2005 9:00:45 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters

Its a funny dynamic if you think about it---

There are more dominant men in search of fewer submissive women---
which should makes us compete for your attention--

-which leaves you the supposed submissive with the "Power" of choosing the best Dom...

but a Dom by nature does not chase a woman, they come to him.

But it does beg the question:

Who really has the power
in this lifestyle dating realm?

Within the realm of "dating", I think the power resides with the less desperate. Those who are desperate enough to compromise their values, ideals, ethics or self-respect inevitably forfeit power over their own fate.
It's been my personal experience that the most successful stories are of those who come together because they respect themselves and their partners and are complimentary halves of the whole.
Timothy

(in reply to DeepWaters)

Post #: 38

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/2/2005 5:15:53 PM

FLButtSlut

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

KnightofMists, it wasn't a typo, YOU were the one who said that Hitler had no emotion and that was why he was able to do what he did. I was pointing out that it actually was his emotion, not the lack of it that caused his behavior.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 39

RE: Is the bottom really in charge after all? - 9/2/2005 5:25:47 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

KnightofMists, it wasn't a typo, YOU were the one who said that Hitler had no emotion and that was why he was able to do what he did. I was pointing out that it actually was his emotion, not the lack of it that caused his behavior.

mmmm ok now exactly where did I say Hitler had no emotions.. I did state he destroyed much? never commented about his emtions. I did comment about the psychopath with no emotional feeling.. this was poorly stated . in that I was referring to the fact that such a person has no emotional investment in the person he harms. If they did.. well I suspect they would have remorse for there actions, but yet they don't. Little emotional emotional investment!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to FLButtSlut)

Post #: 40

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