quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I must say that I too shuddered at what Stephann wrote:

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I suspect a simple, painless procedure given to all women at the age of (say) 8 will prevent her from getting pregnant, until she decides she wants to reverse that procedure to bear children.  A couple generations later, it would likely be mandatory, and 'unwanted' pregnancies would be as rare as polio is today.

A mandatory medical procedure such as the one you imagine above would be in contradiction with medical ethics, as they strictly advocate patient choice in all circumstances. Women are not cattle to be manipulated physically into 'breeder' and 'non-breeder' - which is effectively what you seem to be advocating above. I know that if I had a daughter, such a program would make me want to escape from it; but thankfully, I only have one son.

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ORIGINAL: Stephann

I think two generations from now will  look back at our practice of abortion, and think "how barbaric!" because the ability for both men and women to prevent pregnancy will be as simple as chewing a stick of gum.  I suspect a simple, painless procedure given to all women at the age of (say) 8 will prevent her from getting pregnant, until she decides she wants to reverse that procedure to bear children.  A couple generations later, it would likely be mandatory, and 'unwanted' pregnancies would be as rare as polio is today.

Stephan

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ORIGINAL: Stephann

CL,

As a hypothosis, would you consider a cloned embryo human?  What if the genes are slightly altered so as not to have the capacity for emotions?  The DNA taken from an arm kept artificially alive would also, by your definition, be 'human.'  While being a human arm, it certainly doesn't seem to classify as being human.

The real question isn't one of 'where does life start or end.'  The real question is 'should we force mothers who don't want their children to give birth anyway?'  In a perfect society, I would like to say "Yes."  As is, abortion is an imperfect solution, to horrible social problem.

I think two generations from now will  look back at our practice of abortion, and think "how barbaric!" because the ability for both men and women to prevent pregnancy will be as simple as chewing a stick of gum.  I suspect a simple, painless procedure given to all women at the age of (say) 8 will prevent her from getting pregnant, until she decides she wants to reverse that procedure to bear children.  A couple generations later, it would likely be mandatory, and 'unwanted' pregnancies would be as rare as polio is today.

Stephan

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

And that's your belief, Tigresse, and I respect it. I never heard you argue that women who terminate pregnancies should be imprisonned though. You respect other's choices, and that's what it's all about.

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ORIGINAL: Stephann
My suggestion has nothing to do with removing choice; it's about actually ensuring that pregnancy actually becomes a choice, rather than an accident.  It would mean the end of teenage pregnancy; pregnancy by individuals who (legally) aren't expected to be capable of caring for themselves in the first place.  Again, the program would come about when such procedures would be on par with current vaccinations, costing very little, be relatively painless, and equally inexpensive and painless to reverse.  Again, I don't think this would (or should) necessarily be madated by law, but technically neither are vaccinations.  It just makes sense to me to protect my children from parenthood until they are ready to embrace it. 

Stephan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

CL,

As a hypothosis, would you consider a cloned embryo human?  What if the genes are slightly altered so as not to have the capacity for emotions?  The DNA taken from an arm kept artificially alive would also, by your definition, be 'human.'  While being a human arm, it certainly doesn't seem to classify as being human.

The real question isn't one of 'where does life start or end.'  The real question is 'should we force mothers who don't want their children to give birth anyway?'  In a perfect society, I would like to say "Yes."  As is, abortion is an imperfect solution, to horrible social problem.

I think two generations from now will  look back at our practice of abortion, and think "how barbaric!" because the ability for both men and women to prevent pregnancy will be as simple as chewing a stick of gum.  I suspect a simple, painless procedure given to all women at the age of (say) 8 will prevent her from getting pregnant, until she decides she wants to reverse that procedure to bear children.  A couple generations later, it would likely be mandatory, and 'unwanted' pregnancies would be as rare as polio is today.

Stephan

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ORIGINAL: loveNdevotion

"Thankfully, your dream will remain a fantasy. Abortion isn't such a problem that we'll ever have to resort to such extreme measures. It's an unfortunate fact of life that women have to terminate pregnancies: but it's not the end of the world. Only anti-choice people would have us believe that. "

Actually, it is the end of someone's world.  Quite literally so.  Whether that someone was considered human at the time their world ended- or would have become human at some point in the ensuing months- the world did, indeed, end- for them.