RE: Abandonment play

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QuietDom -> RE: Abandonment play (1/30/2008 2:35:12 PM)
I can't see "abandonment" in the sense that everyone here is using the term as play, either. When I saw the term, though, I thought of something quite different - physically taking the sub somewhere sufficiently remote that they aren't very likely to ever get home unless you return for them, and leaving them for a while. (Fck it, I'm using gendered pronouns appropriate to my tastes. Adapt as you see fit.) She gets to go through an interesting headspace on the theme of trust. Now, that* kind of abandonment sounds like fun, albeit of a demented kind.

CalifChick -> RE: Abandonment play (1/30/2008 2:39:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietDom She gets to go through an interesting headspace on the theme of trust. Now, that kind of abandonment sounds like fun, albeit of a demented kind. "Interesting" is apparently in the eye of the beholder. For some of us, it would be devastating, particularly for those of us who have ever been left alone for a time and were pretty sure we weren't going to come out of it alive. Yeah... uh... no thanks. Cali

julietsierra -> RE: Abandonment play (1/30/2008 3:19:18 PM)
This just occurred to me. When we have very very very very young family members, we're told that when we leave them at the sitter's to go to work, that we should walk away...and not look back and in that way, they'll learn to trust in the fact that we return every night after our workday is done. Evidently though, those very very very very young family members are much stronger than people as adults seem to be... Or is it that we never contemplate that we do the very same things as parents that everyone is saying would cause them to leave as submissives? I think it's strange that when we walk away from those family members to pursue other interests, such as work, a night out, etc, it's called "responsible parenting" and when it's done to us, so that the dominants may pursue their own interests, it's called "abusive" and all those other terms people have for this process... juliet

CalifChick -> RE: Abandonment play (1/30/2008 3:21:26 PM)
I hear what you're saying Juliet, but I don't think the correlations are valid. Cali

greyangelus -> RE: Abandonment play (1/30/2008 3:38:17 PM)
Thanks so much for this thread. It has brought clear to me that I my view of abandonment play is radically different than others. To me, abandonment play is the dom physically leaving the sub in a safe, secure spot with the sub having full knowledge that the Dom WILL return at a later point in time and also having some means of signaling the dom something bad is happening. Example, being left spread eagled on the bed alone in the bedroom with the dom being within earshot. I think its the "WILL return" part where it gets confusing. Going by some thoughts, the "not knowing if the're coming back" is what turns it into abandonment, which is where the emotionaly and mental part plays in. Personally, I would NEVER abandon a sub without her being fully aware, safe and understanding that I would return. Leaving her without that knowledge is.... disturbing and a personal and very grave failure if I did so unintentionally.

julietsierra -> RE: Abandonment play (1/31/2008 12:51:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick I hear what you're saying Juliet, but I don't think the correlations are valid. Cali when you say that, could you elaborate on why they are not? The point I was making is that when we do it to our family members, it's deemed as "good." (And I'm quite sure that those feeling the effects while sitting at home or the sitter's waiting for us to come back probably are not thinking it's "good." Instead, what they do is find other things to do until we get back. And then they go through it all over again the next morning - again and again and again until they realize that 1) It's never going to stop, 2) they can't do a thing about it and 3) they're really ok. And we call that growing up. But when it happens to us as adults, it's deemed "bad" and instead of finding things to do that would in essence, fulfill other things in our lives, we fight back, walk away, call foul, and then, come on here or to all our friends and the dominant gets a bad name as someone who is somehow heartless, or abusive or any number of vilifications. And in my mind, they are two very different reactions to the exact same process. From what I can see, it's just who's on the receiving end. My mother left me alone when I was young too. It was called making a living. I did the same, for the same reasons. And now, I've gotten to live it all over again with my Master, but this time, instead of feeling powerless, the process has left me feeling the fullness of my life because my choices were simple. I could sit around my house weeping, I could walk away from the best man I've ever met in my entire life, or I could find something to do until he could get back. These days, it's dance lessons. For my entire life, I've wanted to learn to dance. So, now, I'm learning. I have no idea if and when I'll ever be able to use this skill, but I LIKE that I'm fulfilling a dream I've had for years. I'm filling my time doing things I like to do. And it really floors me to think of all the time I've wasted crying over something as simple as this. juliet

SubbieOnWheels -> RE: Abandonment play (1/31/2008 7:20:57 AM)
If a dom ever left me without telling me when he was coming back, i would leave him. period. i am not a child who needs to be taught something. I am a woman who has built a relationship with this man, and as such I deserve to be treated as if I had adult feelings and intelligence. It's called respect. Even though I'm a submissive, I am not a pet or child, and anyone who treats me without the respect I deserve as an adult gets what he deserves. The door.

CalifChick -> RE: Abandonment play (1/31/2008 10:50:34 AM)
Juliet: An um learning "object permanence" and dealing with the conflicts of separation anxiety and individuation is a normal developmental process. An adult leaving another adult is not the same (see below). I don't have a problem with someone leaving for a work conference, a visit somewhere, whatever, a relatively definite return date/time. I do have a problem when someone just disappears (even taking out the part I mentioned above about life and death). If an adult is so dependent on another adult that their world crumbles when that other person has to leave for a week for a work assignment, for instance, then I think there are much bigger problems that should be addressed. Cali

QuietDom -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 7:42:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick quote: ORIGINAL: QuietDom She gets to go through an interesting headspace on the theme of trust. Now, that kind of abandonment sounds like fun, albeit of a demented kind. "Interesting" is apparently in the eye of the beholder. For some of us, it would be devastating, particularly for those of us who have ever been left alone for a time and were pretty sure we weren't going to come out of it alive. Yeah... uh... no thanks. To each their own, naturally, but I can't imagine that the majority of people, subs or not, have such a traumatic event in their past that they can't bear to be alone for a few hours. The way I am envisioning it, the Dom clearly states "I'm coming back for you," but does not specify when that will be (or does specify how long, but leaves the sub with no accurate means of measuring time). The sub's job is simply to handle the conflict between trust ("He's coming back here, so I should stay nearby, or He won't find me when he returns,") and fear ("He might not come back, so I should go find my own way home before it gets dark.") I'm sure that might push bad buttons for a few people, but I think that any exercise in maintaining trust in the face of fear directly evokes one of the core elements of D/s.

julietsierra -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 8:10:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Juliet: An um learning "object permanence" and dealing with the conflicts of separation anxiety and individuation is a normal developmental process. You wouldn't know it by some of the posts that come up on CM from time to time. As adults, a LOT of us seem to have forgotten that little lesson. quote: *If an adult is so dependent on another adult that their world crumbles when that other person has to leave for a week for a work assignment, for instance, then I think there are much bigger problems that should be addressed. Cali pretty much. But the same can be said about a person who falls apart because the other adult in their lives who actually had a life before they met has the AUDACITY to presume that they can continue to have the life they previously enjoyed along with the relationship they currently enjoy. juliet

CalifChick -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 9:55:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietDom The way I am envisioning it, the Dom clearly states "I'm coming back for you," but does not specify when that will be (or does specify how long, but leaves the sub with no accurate means of Funny how our experiences color our perceptions... it would never have occurred to me that there would be that communication in your scenario. I still wouldn't like it, and it still wouldn't be a place I would want to go because of my past, but it is not quite as vile as on the first read-through. [;)] Cali

adoracat -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 10:38:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra This just occurred to me. When we have very very very very young family members, we're told that when we leave them at the sitter's to go to work, that we should walk away...and not look back and in that way, they'll learn to trust in the fact that we return every night after our workday is done. Evidently though, those very very very very young family members are much stronger than people as adults seem to be... Or is it that we never contemplate that we do the very same things as parents that everyone is saying would cause them to leave as submissives? I think it's strange that when we walk away from those family members to pursue other interests, such as work, a night out, etc, it's called "responsible parenting" and when it's done to us, so that the dominants may pursue their own interests, it's called "abusive" and all those other terms people have for this process... juliet nods i was thinking about this as i read the whole thread.... and i know that part of my issues go back to my childhood. i was, when i was little, a dedicated Daddy's girl. (still am) my father was in the navy, and when i was being a toddler and old enough to know "ok, Daddy comes home" he was attending school. and came home every night. well, when school ended, we moved and he went on to become a "blue water sailor". as in, long deployments and he was gone for 2 months, three months, a year. and yes, i have abandonment issues. i also have issues because he became abusive towards me, he was always manipulative towards mama and played on HER issues, which were that her parents would fight, and her father would leave. and he told her "dont EVER make me angry, you dont want to know what happens." my brother is, and continues to be, golden. i cant deal with being left alone open-ended. and Daddy knows this....wolf just proved he realises it too because he messaged me and let me know where he is and what he's doing, so that i can have an idea of when he will be home. Daddy talks to me daily. i know its not always going to be when i want him to, because at the moment there is only one working puter at his house and 2 adults. but i know that there WILL be at least one email a day, that he'll IM me every time he sees me online, that if i really need him, i can text message him and he'll be in touch as soon as he possibly can. he knows my abandonment issues. juliet, i'm VERY happy that you and your Master have gotten you through things the way you have. and it makes me smile to see your self-pride in what you've accomplished. i know i wouldnt be a good match to your Master, and its a good thing i'm with Daddy instead, isnt it? [:)] kitten, very thoughtful after this whole thread.

julietsierra -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 12:03:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adoracat i know i wouldnt be a good match to your Master... [:)] kitten, very thoughtful after this whole thread. glaring at adoracat Them's fightin words missy!!! hahahahahaha... I just thought I'd try on jealousy for a minute...hehehe... that doesn't fit either. Yep, I'm very glad you've found someone who makes you happy adoracat. warm hugs, juliet

Aubre -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 12:58:38 PM)
I couldn't see doing this. I could see tying a sub up and putting her in the closet and making her think I had left the house (to buy groceries or something) - and in which case I would never leave and never actually have her out of my sight, and I'd come to get her in 30 mins or so (she'd have other distractions to think about placed in various strategic locations). I could never do something like that and then say "I'm leaving you forever. Bye", then come back in a little while and think things are hunky dory. Telling someone you are leaving them when you never intend to just to torture them is abusive IMO.

julietsierra -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 4:19:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aubre I couldn't see doing this. I could see tying a sub up and putting her in the closet and making her think I had left the house (to buy groceries or something) - and in which case I would never leave and never actually have her out of my sight, and I'd come to get her in 30 mins or so (she'd have other distractions to think about placed in various strategic locations). I could never do something like that and then say "I'm leaving you forever. Bye", then come back in a little while and think things are hunky dory. Telling someone you are leaving them when you never intend to just to torture them is abusive IMO. Wow...now where in the WORLD did you get the impression ANYONE was saying "I'm leaving you forever, Bye"????!!! Perhaps this is what gets people all up in arms about emotional SM - their inability to rationally read what's been written. Here's a clue: Read what's there. Don't read your fears and prejudices into what's there. Personally, I have a release date (Hint: This is NOT where your mind stops and your emotions take center stage. Just keep reading). Yes, I have a release date. It's my birthday (Again... no shut down of the logical mind please)... when I'm 106. (See?).. It used to be 102. I've been given four more years for good behavior. And on my birthday when I'm 102, oops, 106, he's going to release me so I can go rob the cradles of the 80 year old resident men at the nursing homes. Even if they die from the excitement, they'll go out happy. (Everyone has to have a life goal. I just have an end of life goal). Since he is 9 years older than me, this means he can't die before that release date is up. He promised. I'm holding him to that promise. This means he'll be around till the ripe old age of 115. (Here's where the logical brain should be kicking in if not before): Neither of us are so ridiculous to believe that we'll be around when we reach the respective ages of 106 and 115. However, we ARE committed to being with each other for the rest of our lives - however long that may turn out to be. The point of all this is that never at any point in all the things he does to me and I accept what he does has he EVER said he's leaving me permanently. In fact, I don't even question whether this will be for a lifetime for us or not. It simply will. And because it's for a lifetime, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about whether he's leaving me for good or not. I just have to look at a calendar. If it's not 2065, he'll pick up the phone if he can when I call. He'll be making plans that I don't necessarily know about right now for us and even if those plans mean there might be tears from time to time, I know he loves me and I love him and I'm fine. So please...if you're going to negatively judge those of us who engage in this kind of SM, at least attempt to use your brain to figure out what's been said, rather than your emotions that make silly connections to "forever" just because someone is doing something you might not choose or be able to attempt. Oh yea... and we'd be totally drawing a blank on what's so darn exciting about being tied up and put in a closet. That would do nothing for either of us. On my part, I'd take a nap. On his, he'd just get busy with something else and both of us would completely lose interest in playing. Next thing I'd know, he'd be pulling me out of there, cause the whole thing was just so ridiculous. But if that's what turns you on, more power to you. Different things for different people. juliet

adoracat -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 5:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra quote: ORIGINAL: adoracat i know i wouldnt be a good match to your Master... [:)] kitten, very thoughtful after this whole thread. glaring at adoracat Them's fightin words missy!!! hahahahahaha... I just thought I'd try on jealousy for a minute...hehehe... that doesn't fit either. Yep, I'm very glad you've found someone who makes you happy adoracat. warm hugs, juliet silly woman. hugs if i was a good fit with your Master, then he wouldnt be with you! grins i'm happy where i am, and obviously your Master suits you to a T also. happy is a really good feeling. i dont get it all the time.[:)] kitten

Aubre -> RE: Abandonment play (2/1/2008 7:52:44 PM)
julietsierra, Just because it isn't something I'd do or like doesn't mean it isn't right for you. I was talking in the context of what I would be comfortable with, what I could live with. If it works for you, by all means be my guest. I'm sorry if I came off judgemental and inflexible. I was just giving my opinion.

sweetpuppy77 -> RE: Abandonment play (1/28/2010 5:52:48 AM)
When I talked about how I was going to meet someone (off this site actually), women who otherwise wouldn't give me the time of day started weeping and sending me nude pics of themselves. "Don't call them for two whole days-watch as thier entire world falls apart." I think that many people, on this site and off, take a cheap thrill in this. Get someone up to the mountaintop, no matter how long it takes- 8 months, 2000 hours, whatever- and once they are securely perched and reassured of their place, give them a big push. It's downright orgasmic to many: that sadism is their small shot at happiness.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Abandonment play (1/28/2010 5:55:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetpuppy77 When I talked about how I was going to meet someone (off this site actually), women who otherwise wouldn't give me the time of day started weeping and sending me nude pics of themselves. "Don't call them for two whole days-watch as thier entire world falls apart." I think that many people, on this site and off, take a cheap thrill in this. Get someone up to the mountaintop, no matter how long it takes- 8 months, 2000 hours, whatever- and once they are securely perched and reassured of their place, give them a big push. It's downright orgasmic to many: that sadism is their small shot at happiness. So...you pull up a two year old thread to post THIS?!! Wow.

DesFIP -> RE: Abandonment play (1/28/2010 6:00:20 AM)
He wouldn't do this just to make me hurt. It would deny him as much as me. He likes being with me, he like playing with me. He likes my cooking. Abandoning me would require he lose as much as I would. Now, saying he's taken a job that's going to keep him out of town for the better part of a month is something we are too used to. But that's not play, that's life imposed. The false comparison to toddlers at daycare? We don't have to accept it and toddlers do. Although mine learned without me walking away while they cried. I sat there for an hour till they we comfortable, kissed them goodbye and they were fine with it. I never inflicted suffering deliberately because I couldn't bother sitting there for a little bit the first few days.

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