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Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 10:12:28 AM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		I begin to despair.  It feels like an unspoken dichotomy runs through many (although not all) of the men I'm meeting.  Has the virgin/whore complex that has beguiled Western society for so long been re-inscribed as a Vanilla/Submissive where men are dating/marrying vanilla women and looking for the submissive 'just' to 'play' or for an affair?

In my ideal world, I would like to meet someone I could be friends with, respect, talk about the things that matter, support each other in our travails and also explore the dark ticklings of our erotic lives.  I can't imagine having a long-term relationship with someone when our eros isn't fulfilled.  I just can't.  That is too essential to a sexual relationship.  But I also can't imagine a sexual relationship where I'm just the mistress, play, whatever.  I'm just not wired that way.

It seems like I've missed the boat.  That many men my age are committed to vanilla wives or girlfriends, and they want a submissive on the side, without it infecting their good, wholesome vanilla wife, who is the mother of their children after all--she is pure.

I don't understand why anyone would marry someone that doesn't meet their erotic yearnings. But I despair of ever meeting someone and wonder if my vanilla desires mean I'd be better off in eharmony world.  Because, being submissive is only one part of me.  An important part, but one part none-the-less.  Given the stark choice it seems awaits, I know which I'd choose.  But I don't want to despair of ever 'coming home.'  Any advice?

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 10:23:48 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		Patience patience patience. Settle for something less than what you want, or hold out longer for what will make you happy. Online is not the only venue to meeting people, limiting yourself to those who are only 'actively' broadcasting they are into BDSM isn't the only way to meet dominant partners either.

Looking at the end of your road often makes you forget to enjoy the steps you take along the way.

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 10:25:44 AM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline 		no advice,  but lots of empathy here.

seems ive missed the boat as well.

ive never understood why someone would choose to marry someone they were not compatable with, even if they didnt know at the time. they all figure it out sooner or later, then they choose to stay, instead of finding someone they do match.
this is something i think about almost every day. sometimes it hurts alot and sometimes it just seems like a really bad joke.

theres alot more, but i dont feel like offering wank material today. feel free to e me

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 10:25:57 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		I undertsand totally

I have posted several times in my journal that i struggle to find potential partners who want what I want .... all that a conventional vanilla marriage can offer them (wife, children, school runs, dog walking, packed lunches)... enhanced by the devotion of a slave and the care of a Master. For every married guy out there seeking a cheap thrill behind his wife's back .. there ios a man hoping to find a woman he can love and cherish and Master for a long time

these boards are filled with loving commited and rounded relationships ... you just have to keep looking .. and keep your standards high

also ... dont over look the quite delicious prospect of introducing someone to this this wonderful lifestyle

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 10:38:43 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		While it is far more common to find the men looking for the thrills (and this happens in the male sub areans as well... it is not just a made Dom thing) than it is the ones looking for a real life, they are out there. You're best bet would be to make what you desire extremely clear, so you dont waste your time being courted by the fantasy players. Secondly, get out into your communicty and meet the real life people who are already living THIS life and looking for someone to add to it with them, not just the ones looking to play at it in the safety of their fantasy worlds. Sometimes you can get lucky and meet the right ones online. I met both of mine on CM so I know there are realistic ones here. However, its harder to sort through the ones online who arent being completely truthful.   Id still suggest your community and real life events over the internet if this isnt getting you what you seek.
Settling, however, is just that. When you settle, you do your partner and yourself a disservice and set any relatinship up for disaster. You go into it unhappy and very often that doesnt improve. Personally, Id rather be frusterated and alone than settle for a partner just so I have someone.

Good luck
DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 10:45:40 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		What do you expect when you have a "lifestyle" that is largely hedonistic and sexual with a history and focus of casual play and sex? This kind of thing goes hand in hand with men looking to scratch an itch.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 11:11:04 AM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
What do you expect when you have a "lifestyle" that is largely hedonistic and sexual with a history and focus of casual play and sex? This kind of thing goes hand in hand with men looking to scratch an itch.


So what do you suggest?  How does one find a compatible partner if that part doesn't work for you?

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 11:15:02 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Join the club, honey. It is the unique problem of fabulously intelligent, multifaceted and well rounded submissive women who desire full fledged, full throttle relationships with equal men who want and need the same thing.

Kind of like trying to spot a unicorn in Central Park.

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 12:18:30 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
What do you expect when you have a "lifestyle" that is largely hedonistic and sexual with a history and focus of casual play and sex? This kind of thing goes hand in hand with men looking to scratch an itch.


So what do you suggest?  How does one find a compatible partner if that part doesn't work for you?


Patience. The point I am getting at is perhaps a more cynical, but realistic oulook. Go to any Internet dating site that has a focus on the sexual or any establishment that has been socially associated as a place to "hook" up and I am sure you will find a whole host of guys looking to get layed.

To associate what you encounter on a website like this as the "norm" of people into BDSM is inaccurate. If it was, then the number of people in relationships and marriages would be amazingly low, but it's not. This is just one facet of the whole diamond of human interaction and unfortanely, your basically at a club where the guys don't have to pay for a drink or get dressed before going, have a lot more freedom with their sexual come-ons since there is no bouncer to throw them out, and don't have to worry about Joe at the hardware store seeing him and telling his wife.

It just is what it is. Go to a local munch. Attend a conference or workshop you enjoy. Just live life and say "hello" to the cute guy at the grocery store. Who knows what you will meet?

It amazes me when people (not you in this generalization) come to these boards and rant about how the Internet is destroying the "lifestyle". It's just a website where every Joe Smoe and Jane Doe in the world can come and make a profile for whatever reason without any qualification, the vast majority of them who don't participate in the public scene.

Don't let yourself get down because of the general consenus on a website like this where a guy can come and make a profile searching for a 24/7 cocksucker off the drop of a hat. It's only one tool for meeting people and because of the nature of the tool, tends to draw a whole host of shady characters.

I hope this puts things in perspective a bit for you.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 12:25:39 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		Mad Rabbit--Thank you for your patient response. 

I know we're all sposed to do the real life events, but I'm never comfortable there.  I've done munches and TES meetings and I don't fit in there.  I'm not comfortable talking about sex in public.   I don't like being in a diner when someone is on a leash and a kid is at the next table.  At a TES meeting 4 or 5 men, all at least 20 years older than me, will crowd around.  I always take a 'prop' for anyone to start up a conversation (whether it is a political button or a book) and no one ever does.  They just say "nice tits" or something.  I've actually found the internet to be easier to navigate than the real world events.  But maybe not enough so.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 12:32:45 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings liminalrapture,

first of all, *big hugs*.

i know how frustrating this is...and i feel for you that you are still struggling to deal with this in your journey. i dealt with this a lot before i got together with him, and even afterwards, because we are not married or living together yet and it took him a long time to even talk about me to some of his family. i sometimes felt, at first, like i was not "good enough," or "pure enough," or i was just some dark desire on the side.

even now, when i feel much more comfortable with the totality of our relationship, he still has that madonna/whore complex thing going on, but just with me - which can sometimes be difficult for me to handle, because i am so used to just being who i am all the time that trying to create two different impressions with the same person makes me feel a bit schizophrenic. it's definitely been a learning experience.

even when i was seeking a submissive actively...most of the men i met, despite the fact that i wanted emotional/mental as well as physical submission, equated being a submissive with essentially being a masochistic bottom, and had no desire to actually relinquish control over anything, nor to have any sort of emotional relationship. that's the main reason i stopped actively seeking.

anyway, i don't have any words of wisdom - other than please don't settle for something you are unhappy with. there are actually potential partners out there who will want all of you, not just what you can do for them in the bedroom on the side when their wife isn't looking. i just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in feeling like you are stuck in this dichotomy, even if some of us may not be experiencing it in exactly the same way.

respectfully,
annabelle.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 12:36:12 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I haven't been to one munch, and I've met two wonderful guys, both of whom were looking for real life partners, both in bdsm and in the day to day world. One is now a very very good friend, and the other is my sweet, loving HoneyMaster.
Just be  very careful who you open up to, and don't play until you've found someone who is a potential partner.
You can find it. You just have to know exactly what you want before you begin looking...
That way you'll know it when you see it...

~Christina

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 12:40:22 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

Mad Rabbit--Thank you for your patient response. 

I know we're all sposed to do the real life events, but I'm never comfortable there.  I've done munches and TES meetings and I don't fit in there.  I'm not comfortable talking about sex in public.   I don't like being in a diner when someone is on a leash and a kid is at the next table.  At a TES meeting 4 or 5 men, all at least 20 years older than me, will crowd around.  I always take a 'prop' for anyone to start up a conversation (whether it is a political button or a book) and no one ever does.  They just say "nice tits" or something.  I've actually found the internet to be easier to navigate than the real world events.  But maybe not enough so.


I am wondering about the groups you are attending. There are shitty ones out there with not really great people, but if you find the right one with the right people, the atmosphere can be quite comfortable and pleasant without anyone feeling pressured and sexually solicted or any awkward situations with someone on a leash in public view.



_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 12:46:51 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		Patience my ass! =L=
 
I married one of *those* you talked abouty many yrs ago...Only cost me 1200 a month to get rid of her!
 
To be told your *sick* etc...for some of my wants, needs and desires took a toll at some point. AND maybe I was a lil out *there* with some of them however....at some point they were gonna have to be met or I would look elsewhere..and she did not deserve that. It was NOT the only reason we divorced! =L= It had a part, however...
 
Even a few yrs ago..I walked away from all this, moved from the scene/groups I was in and figured screw it...I will just try dating a vanilla <do not care for the word but will use it for lack of a better one> THAT was FAR to painfull as I was never able to be me....so, I was living a lie. Tsk Tsk..had to give it a shot...
 
I understand where your comming...from. I suppose being patient is part of it...There are many young men out there, and thanks in part to the internet will bloom into great dominates/masters etc...if they are teachable..
 
I don`t think age makes a difference on finding the right *one*....nor does up and moving to a city where groups etc..are. I saw many subs/slaves as well as dominates that could not find a match...
 
Actually...I have no clue =L= Hang in there! It will happen probably when you least expect it!
 
Oh....nothing wrong with not being a casual player...<smiles a li`l>
 
D

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 1:38:05 PM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		That's strange, because all the different Munches i have attended you are only allowed vanilla wear. No collars or leashes. i thought all Munches had that rule.
Having known married men who have married vanilla women. They all seem to have this in common. BDSM is just used to spice up their sex life. They aren't interested in anything permanent or 24/7. They just want the hottest sexual experience they can get. Out of bed they are just as vanilla as their partner.

_____________________________

i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 6:02:22 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I didn't meet with him until after we were having multifaceted conversations. Yes, play and sex were in there, so was conversations about favorite foods, places we've lived and loved, discussions about our ums etc. Don't agree to meet right away. Any guy who is just looking for a quick lay won't spend a month talking about his job, how his ums do at school, what home improvement projects he has planned etc. Nor will he spend that month asking you about your job, home, family etc.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 7:05:57 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		I think the problem is not that they don't want you.  The problem is that they didn't find you early enough and now they don't want to give up what they have to get something else.   Finding a young man your own age who knows himself well enough to know he wants you is the real problem here.  He's been submitted to all that mother/som brain washing about what kind of a girl he should marry.
 
I for one did not find out about what I really wanted from a woman until several years after I was married.  I wouldn't give up what I have and I love her dearly but I do really regret that I found out about BDSM and the Dom/Sub thing so late. 
 
Good luck in your search.  I truly hope you find that one right guy and make him very happy.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 8:00:46 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		I have been on vanilla dating sites as well in the past they really are no different...  lots of married men looking for soup du jour or single guys that are simply looking for a good time not a long time, once they score they are off to the next, personally I find these sites an improvement over the vanilla sites personally.actually my more recent  choices of possible are men that I have met online here or on Alt  that I have been online friends with and chatted thru IM for several months, my first Dom actually encouraged me to make friends with the online community and get into discussions, with a variety of members  inorder to learn more about the lifestyle. Those that took a sexual interest or where demanding of a relationship  got weeded out, leaving just friendships which have now lasted thru 2 relationship that I  have been through with one just recently ending   This time around,  2 of the doms that I have been  online friends with for the past 7 months ask me if I would consider meeting with them as they would be interest in having me as a sub, and a 3 which I have been talking to off and on for 4 months, All 3 I would consider fantastic choices and a comfort level has already been established thru simple friendship chatter, so conversations were not centered primarily on sex or bdsm could be things about things like discussing childhoods, travels, hobbies, interests, past relationships, news, politics , jobs, likes and dislikes  etc, with one of them in particular  we  did discuss a lot of personal stuff and a wide range of other topics  and the rapport between us  has been extremely easy going , so out of the 3 he became the prime choice and now we are into discussing  the dynamics  of a relationship and our views on and a meeting time was agreed upon today with hopes we will connect well when we meet in person, the other 2 have wished me success and if things do not work  and if timing is right would hope I would consider them then, but they would like to remain friends as long as it is acceptable.  And yes if things did not work I probably would agree to  meeting with either of them.  So it is worth  cultivating online friends  because you never know where a potential dom may lie.  

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 8:18:34 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I met my master on collarme - and met quite quickly, at Barnes and Noble (my choice). We talked about BDSM, religion, books, expectations, kids,  coffee vs tea, hair colour, jobs, education - basically, anything that came into our minds. Our life is defined but not restricted to BDSM - and i am so lucky to have found him. I spent 10 years alone after my divorce, before i discovered my submission, and never expected to find a heart mate.  Don't shut yourself off from possibilities.  Good luck.

(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/26/2008 8:33:19 PM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline 		I, too, am finding it frustrating locating what I'm looking for. I have it clearly stated in my profile, and my mailbox is empty except for the rude, crude, and socially unacceptable ones.

At least the men who aren't contacting me are honest, at least with me.

That's an interesting concept. [Goes off to think about it.]

_____________________________

Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels


(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 20
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