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RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/27/2008 7:43:13 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		When I was looking those who fit the description you posted were juvenile and unevolved in my eyes. The Madonna/whore complex is something that men who are stuck at some point in their childhood exhibit. Someone who expected me to conform to a cardboard cut out of a virgin or a whore would just be laughed at....

No, you did not miss any boat when it comes to men like this.

There are plenty of men out there that are in touch with their sexuality and are mature enough to desire a partner that is in touch with hers. If by 35 they do not view women as having human needs, fuck em.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/27/2008 7:44:07 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/27/2008 12:34:36 PM   
EponasChylde


Posts: 65
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		Where men go to find women, there will be dishonest assholes looking to cheat on their spouse. Whether it's a bar, a club, a vanilla single's site, a BDSM site, etc.

I do not believe that the BDSM community has either a larger or smaller percentage of such losers.


_____________________________

*aka geekygirl*

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/27/2008 4:11:11 PM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture          <snipped>


In my ideal world, I would like to meet someone I could be friends with, respect, talk about the things that matter, support each other in our travails and also explore the dark ticklings of our erotic lives.  I can't imagine having a long-term relationship with someone when our eros isn't fulfilled.  I just can't.  That is too essential to a sexual relationship.  But I also can't imagine a sexual relationship where I'm just the mistress, play, whatever.  I'm just not wired that way.



Patience, my dear.  And don't settle for less than everything you want.  In the meantime, whilst waiting for my perfect "one", I dated vanilla, I played at parties.  Got my fix in both directions.  I had virtually stopped looking when all of a sudden - there he was.

Madonna/whore complex fantasy is alive and kicking in most men, methinks.  If you are both, don't settle for someone who only wants one or the other.  But beware...there are some that claim they want both that can't handle it. 

Sometimes the coolest vanilla date can turn to kink.  Sometimes you find a Top that also enjoys just kicking back for a talk or a movie.  Options open, patience....um.....yeah.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 5:16:54 AM   
sortof


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		i have met my women outside of any scene and just found they liked the lifestyle, at least sexually, which is more or less how i like it though the sexual rension aspect of it needs to seep into toher areas. The internet is a stomping ground for bored people looking to get a quick thrill. It may be a wonderful tool of communication, information and even bonding, but there is probably no limit to the number of jaw droppingly selfish, mouth-breathing idiots you may encounter.

I hope you are patient enough to get lucky.

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 5:37:33 AM   
littlesui


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

I know we're all sposed to do the real life events, but I'm never comfortable there.  I've done munches and TES meetings and I don't fit in there.  I'm not comfortable talking about sex in public.   I don't like being in a diner when someone is on a leash and a kid is at the next table.  At a TES meeting 4 or 5 men, all at least 20 years older than me, will crowd around.  I always take a 'prop' for anyone to start up a conversation (whether it is a political button or a book) and no one ever does.  They just say "nice tits" or something.  I've actually found the internet to be easier to navigate than the real world events.  But maybe not enough so.

  

I understand what you mean about spending most of the evening fending off guys who seem totally unable to understand the subtle hint - and I'm too polite and shy to be rude to them.  I found going to the event with another (male) sub helped  - a good friend who saw my predicament.  You could have a quiet word with the munch organiser.  I found they are usually pretty good at looking out for newbies or lone females at such events.  Your comments about the lead suprised me though.  Our local munch is held in the basement bar / dance area of a pub and even though it's for our exclusive use for the night it is strictly vanilla dress code with no playing allowed.  In a diner where there are young children about this sort of behaviour is unacceptable imho.

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 6:38:00 AM   
DoctorYale


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I will reply here although I attempted to find your profile and could not locate it.  I am a married Dom living in a vanilla marriage.  The sexual eros that I desire to be fulfilled with a special submissive woman is presently denied to me in the vanilla world.  Yet, there are aspects of my vanilla life that are quite appealing.  In the most ideal of all worlds, I would find one, very special and unique submissive woman who can combine all in one.  The sexual aspect of a relationship is one part, important, but only one part.  There are other aspects of a relationship that also need fulfillment and I have found that it is extremely rare, not impossible as I keep hoping, to find one woman who is a real woman, proud, self confident, intelligent, attractive, interesting and intellectually challenging and who is a sexual submissive and as sexual and erotic as am I. If and when that day arrives when we meet, then I would consider, seriously, dissolving the vanilla marriage and have a long term relationship with the special submissive.  Until that time, I see no reason to.  True, there may be submissive woman such as yourself who are my ideal and will never know because of my marital status.  But, I take the risk, and feel that the ideal woman will begin to communicate with me regardless of my status to see if there is that special connection that can be developed.  So, yes I am married, but no - am not looking for whore to compensate for my madonna.  I am looking for my ideal.

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 6:45:49 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorYale

I will reply here although I attempted to find your profile and could not locate it.  I am a married Dom living in a vanilla marriage.  The sexual eros that I desire to be fulfilled with a special submissive woman is presently denied to me in the vanilla world.  Yet, there are aspects of my vanilla life that are quite appealing.  In the most ideal of all worlds, I would find one, very special and unique submissive woman who can combine all in one.  The sexual aspect of a relationship is one part, important, but only one part.  There are other aspects of a relationship that also need fulfillment and I have found that it is extremely rare, not impossible as I keep hoping, to find one woman who is a real woman, proud, self confident, intelligent, attractive, interesting and intellectually challenging and who is a sexual submissive and as sexual and erotic as am I. If and when that day arrives when we meet, then I would consider, seriously, dissolving the vanilla marriage and have a long term relationship with the special submissive.  Until that time, I see no reason to.  True, there may be submissive woman such as yourself who are my ideal and will never know because of my marital status.  But, I take the risk, and feel that the ideal woman will begin to communicate with me regardless of my status to see if there is that special connection that can be developed.  So, yes I am married, but no - am not looking for whore to compensate for my madonna.  I am looking for my ideal.



So if your wife is not your ideal and you want your ideal(or at least I imagine that is the bill of goods you are selling to potential partners) why not get a divorce now if that is your intention anyway? You are going to exchange one relationship for another like exchanging a shirt that doesn't quite fit? That just has a bad flavor to it.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 1/28/2008 6:48:05 AM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to DoctorYale)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 7:30:03 AM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorYale

I will reply here although I attempted to find your profile and could not locate it.  I am a married Dom living in a vanilla marriage.  The sexual eros that I desire to be fulfilled with a special submissive woman is presently denied to me in the vanilla world.  Yet, there are aspects of my vanilla life that are quite appealing.  In the most ideal of all worlds, I would find one, very special and unique submissive woman who can combine all in one.  The sexual aspect of a relationship is one part, important, but only one part.  There are other aspects of a relationship that also need fulfillment and I have found that it is extremely rare, not impossible as I keep hoping, to find one woman who is a real woman, proud, self confident, intelligent, attractive, interesting and intellectually challenging and who is a sexual submissive and as sexual and erotic as am I. If and when that day arrives when we meet, then I would consider, seriously, dissolving the vanilla marriage and have a long term relationship with the special submissive.  Until that time, I see no reason to.  True, there may be submissive woman such as yourself who are my ideal and will never know because of my marital status.  But, I take the risk, and feel that the ideal woman will begin to communicate with me regardless of my status to see if there is that special connection that can be developed.  So, yes I am married, but no - am not looking for whore to compensate for my madonna.  I am looking for my ideal.



So if your wife is not your ideal and you want your ideal(or at least I imagine that is the bill of goods you are selling to potential partners) why not get a divorce now if that is your intention anyway? You are going to exchange one relationship for another like exchanging a shirt that doesn't quite fit? That just has a bad flavor to it.


I agree with this, and I would add:

I would never want to be the cause of the breakup of a marriage - vanilla or otherwise. I have no desire to meet a man who is currently married, with the idea that "if things work out," he will divorce his wife and marry me. Excuse me? I have too much respect for myself to be used in that way. I have too much respect for a woman who has put however many years into a marriage to let her be unceremoniously dropped just because something "better" came along.

That being said, I am looking for a Dom who will treat me in every way but one as a vanilla wife. That one way is very important to me, but sex isn't everything in a relationship - certainly far from everything in a marriage. The sad thing is that men who are looking for that kind of relationship have already "settled" for half of it and are unavailable for a woman who offers the whole.

I'm not afraid to go to munches. I just have no way of getting there. I don't drive due to physical issues, and my friends are not kink-friendly. I guess what I need is to make the acquaintance of another sub (male or female) in the area and arrange for said sub to pick me up for the event. (Well, I guess I just solved my own problem. tee-hee)


_____________________________

Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels


(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 7:39:21 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorYale

I will reply here although I attempted to find your profile and could not locate it.  I am a married Dom living in a vanilla marriage.  The sexual eros that I desire to be fulfilled with a special submissive woman is presently denied to me in the vanilla world.  Yet, there are aspects of my vanilla life that are quite appealing.  In the most ideal of all worlds, I would find one, very special and unique submissive woman who can combine all in one.  The sexual aspect of a relationship is one part, important, but only one part.  There are other aspects of a relationship that also need fulfillment and I have found that it is extremely rare, not impossible as I keep hoping, to find one woman who is a real woman, proud, self confident, intelligent, attractive, interesting and intellectually challenging and who is a sexual submissive and as sexual and erotic as am I. If and when that day arrives when we meet, then I would consider, seriously, dissolving the vanilla marriage and have a long term relationship with the special submissive.  Until that time, I see no reason to.  True, there may be submissive woman such as yourself who are my ideal and will never know because of my marital status.  But, I take the risk, and feel that the ideal woman will begin to communicate with me regardless of my status to see if there is that special connection that can be developed.  So, yes I am married, but no - am not looking for whore to compensate for my madonna.  I am looking for my ideal.



So if your wife is not your ideal and you want your ideal(or at least I imagine that is the bill of goods you are selling to potential partners) why not get a divorce now if that is your intention anyway? You are going to exchange one relationship for another like exchanging a shirt that doesn't quite fit? That just has a bad flavor to it.


Could you imagine having a dom like this? Someone who had to wait to cast aside their vanilla marriage until they found something "better"? Someone who was looking to trade up? I suppose he may find what he seeks, and they both might be attractive and intelligent and erotic and all that, but they won't trust each other. How could anyone trust such people?

Edited to add, someone who was so afraid of being alone that they would suck years away from their vanilla spouse when they planned on leaving one day anyhow would never be able to dominate me, I just don't respect men that have to be in a relationship that badly. His poor wife, I wouldn't judge usually, but someone who outright states they are just waiting until someone else shows up before they leave their current spouse, that is one of the most crappy things one can do to their mate.


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/28/2008 7:41:44 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 9:50:02 AM   
EponasChylde


Posts: 65
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		DoctorYale, guys like you are exactly what she's talking about.

Here's an idea for you: Become a decent human being, tell your wife the truth, and divorce her so you can seek for what you really want. Until then you aren't being fair to your wife, any subs you play with, or even to yourself. You are robbing your wife of time she could spend looking for a good man who appreciates her.

Personally I prefer dominants who have both balls and a sense of decency and you seem lacking in both.


_____________________________

*aka geekygirl*

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 11:08:59 AM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		DoctorYale,

I took my ad down this weekend after another man started talking to me, shared vulnerabilities, talked about our fears at work and life and our bodies and what we think about whether or not there is a God and how we feel about that.  The he dropped the little fact of his wife.  I don't know why anyone would think I would have so little respect for marriage that I would be a party to something like that.  I simply never will.  The man I fell for before that I met here and he is a lovely human being, but just doesn't want a relationship in his life right now.  He was totally honest, but confused because he said basically he didn't think someone like me existed and he wished we met a while ago, or were closer in ages, and he said "you don't belong on CM and you won't find what you are looking for on CM because men go there for play; they don't go there for women they respect." That made me really question (not just him, a number of incidents that played into a narrative that he is describing).

And so this weekend, I took my ad off CM and took one on eharmony.  I do mention "GGG" and that I'm looking for "A good man with a wicked streak who will do unspeakable things to me if we get there."  I don't know if it will work.  I thought I'd fully accepted this part of myself, but I'm not willing to settle for 'play' or anything that kills my soul like that.  Fundamentally, I can't.  I have a puritanical streak that I don't like, but it is true.  I need a committed relationship before sex is brought out.  Maybe I'll put my CM ad back up after I figure out the right journal entry, but the men lying, the men treating me like a sexual object only, it numbs my soul a little bit.  I think on eharmony the men are just pretending to act the way they think women want them to (just as I think the ethos here is one closer to what men want) and I want to find something where we can both be honest and true.  Where we can figure out our erotic ticklings, even as we work to figure out who we are voting for next Tuesday, whether the same things make us laugh and whether we can communicate difficulties fully.

I am absolutely "a real woman, proud, self confident, intelligent, attractive, interesting and intellectually challenging and who is a sexual submissive and as sexual and erotic as"  well as any man I've known.   In vanilla life, I can absolutely keep up with anyone, and that includes US Senators and Pulitzer Prize winners.  Hell--I'm in 3 of the Who's Who in America books this year and have been reviewed in the NY Times.  But it is like I have to pick a part of myself. Do I want to be the charming, intelligent, smart as hell, quite accomplished women who only takes orders from the Secret Service, or do I want to be kneeling before someone who will relish in my surrender and protect me as I let go of all protections myself?  I can't imagine committing before a God (whom I don't even know if I believe in) that I will have only this one person as my sexual partner if he didn't satisfy me.  But I couldn't be his partner if all the other stuff didn't work too.

And I wonder, if a vanilla man found me as a partner, and cherished me.  Maybe he could find the part of himself that thrived on control.  I don't need bruises, just surrender and control.  Maybe that is easier than finding a man who thrives on control and trying to get him to cherish me.  It feels like women (or maybe it is subs?) are treated as interchangeable, generic others too often here. 

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to EponasChylde)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 11:44:34 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

and he said "you don't belong on CM and you won't find what you are looking for on CM because men go there for play; they don't go there for women they respect." That made me really question (not just him, a number of incidents that played into a narrative that he is describing).


I think there are many here that view it this way, but even more that do not from the profiles I have had the pleasure of reading. I talked to several nice dominant men on this site before I met my Daddy. My Daddy gave me the url to this site before we even met... and I met my Daddy from a site with far more players than cm has. There are men on here hoping to find a submissive they can love and respect and cherish... I would challenge what this dominant said by asking his age, because if he is over 60, he is from a generation in which men were taught to have a Madonna whore complex.... that is not so much the case anymore. The era of free love, and woman's lib kinda changed perceptions of female sexuality in a big way. Not that there are not men that are younger who hold such ideas... there are of course. I think this man sounds like he is projecting his worldview on all mankind, and he is wrong, not all men think like he does (thank goodness)


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to liminalRapture)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Virgin/Whore: Vanilla/Submissive? - 1/28/2008 12:35:27 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

and he said "you don't belong on CM and you won't find what you are looking for on CM because men go there for play; they don't go there for women they respect." That made me really question (not just him, a number of incidents that played into a narrative that he is describing).


I would challenge what this dominant said by asking his age, because if he is over 60 


He was 52, but I think your point is well taken.  I've never gotten involved with someone that much older than me, and he reinforced all the reasons I don't want to get involved with someone that older again.  (He is a very good, honorable man, and stopped it before I got too hurt, but he is getting ready to retire and just at very different points of life.)

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
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