RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat?

RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (Full Version)

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YourhandMyAss -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 12:24:03 AM)
The neighbor at Daddies trailer park had a gorgious Egyptian Siamese tabby mix she was grey and she had stripes, and Suzanne thought nothing of letting Amanda kitty out to roam an play and then calling it back in/ and or waitinf for it to come in and one day someone stole it and she never got it back. Amanda didn't have a collar someone must of thought it was a stray, but even if you do collar a kitty an it's outdoors don't keep any one from simply stealing it. quote: ORIGINAL: winterlight my neighbor has a cat she let outside. \

tulipgoose -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 12:54:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou (of course I have a big problem with people that coop up their cats inside; cats deserve to enjoy the outside just as much as we do.) Well, I have 3 cats, all declawed (My mom actually is the one who decided to declaw them for them to be allowed in her home while I still lived there). They were all declawed when they were spayed. If it were at a seperate instance then I would be more inclined not to. Of course for about a week and a half after they feel yucky and don't like walking, but they are better off confined after spaying anyway, and unless they walk their paws don't bother them much so it just prevents them from opening their stitches anyway. I personally understand why people get cats declawed and there have been many times I have been extremely glad these cats are.. When the time comes to get another cat and choose whether to declaw or not again will depend on whether I have any other cats at the time. Having a declawed and a clawed cat mingle can and does (though not always for those who will jump in at this point) cause problems. However, I would more like to address the quote above. I live in an extremely rural area, which I was not raised in. To let cats outdoors here would be a death trap waiting to happen. There are foxes, bears, large stray and outdoor dogs, and you name what else. In the evenings you can see foxes running across the feild right from our front door. While I love letting my cats smell the fresh air in the summer out the windows they sit in all day, and may take them out on a leash into once or twice a season, it'd be more cruel to them to let them out there. I've known too many people with cats that have died in such ways, or via automotive...... My fiance had a cat which was an outdoor cat only when it had to "go"... it would do it's business then come right back in. One day the cat came back through the window it always did and a fox followed it right in and ate it in a rather bloody mess in my fiance's old bathroom. He couldn't get to the poor thing in time, and vows to not have any outdoor cats (at least not around here) again, as well has a thing against foxes now.

Zensee -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 1:29:51 AM)
A really sturdy scratching post is cheaper and far more humane. Get a landscaping tie, 4 or 5 feet tall, wrap it in tightly in sisal twine starting about 1 foot from the ground. Cover the base in a sturdy scratching material and out a petting perch up top at chest or head level. If it is the sturdiest piece of furniture in the house they will prefer it, especially if they can climb it, the taller the better. If you can get a honeysuckle log they will go crazy for that, it's like cat nip to them and they will scratch their little hearts out... not literally. Z.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 1:48:47 AM)
Slaveboy, that was a pretty blunt comment. It's easy to make snap judgements based on very little informaiton, and yours is quite an ignorant one. I have two cats, both were rescued cats and I raised them from the day they were born b/c their owner neglected them and was too drunk on a daily basis to bother. I had to be mother to them, feed them on the hour EVERY hour for days until I could start lengthening the time between feeds. Both were born with cat flu and almost died as a result, they contracted it from their mothers (same father) and also had chlamydia, they are also carriers of the feline leukaemia. NEITHER can be introduced to other cats as their conditions are passed on through scratches and general grooming, along with sex. They are indoors cats. Neither know any different and are extremely happy. Both will be 15 this years and anyone that meets them can't believe how agile and kittenish they are. The vet wanted to put them to sleep the day I took them into him, with the little man of the two unable to breathe, his eyelids (how he was born due to the chlamydia) fused together, he had blood coming out of his nose/ears/mouth. I paid almost £1000 for the vet to work on him throughout the night, suctioning the mucous out of the cat's lungs/airways. Finally he pulled through and it was the ONLY time in that experienced vet's career (over 36 years) that he had seen such determination in a cat for survival. Almost fifteen years later my cats are still with me, give me the greatest joy every single day, and I them. I have no doubt of that. I read somewhere some years ago that cats are also the primary cause of up to 40% of natural species becoming extinct. Do I regret keeping my cats indoors - not for a moment. I do not agree with you that cats NEED to roam free outdoors, they are domesticated pets and therefore fit in with people's lifestyles. And to the OP. Declawing is barbaric, read bamabbwsub's comments regarding declawing. It's not pretty, it causes a great deal of suffering and simply for the sake of laziness of the pet's owner/s who can't be bothered to train their cat/s not to scratch their furniture. Mine have been trained not to, so I know it is possible to do so.

Einzelganger -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 1:51:31 AM)
Even if it's an indoor cat, don't declaw it. Most indoor cats are going to get out of the house at some point in their life, and when they're outdoors, they need all their defense tools. Declawing them removes their primary means of defense (watch a pissed off cat sometime; the first move they make almost always uses their front claws). I wouldn't want my cat to be left defenseless when she's outside. If you're worried about small children getting torn up by the cat, well...both the cats I've owned were female, but were very mindful/almost protective of the children in the house. When the kids would pull on either cat's tail, she would smack them on the side of the head a couple times, without using her claws...I don't know if all cats are like this or not, but neither of them ever scratched or bit the kids that have been to my house. Just my $0.02... -Einzelgänger

camille65 -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 1:59:26 AM)
I had Barney declawed over 19 years ago. There was a few days of discomfort but she never stopped running around during that time. I had her spayed at the same time, I think spaying is vital. A cat going through heat is not a happy cat. A cat spraying all over the house makes for a not happy cat human.She has never snuck outside or been left to fend for herself in her almost 20 years of life. (her birthday is coming up at the end of Febuary, 20!) For the most part I say do not declaw, Barney is a bit unusual in that she doesnt want to go outside. Most kitties will dash out at least a few times into the great big world. Please, if you let your cat out do some reading on the songbird population in your area. You may think 'they're only birds' but the outdoor cat population has decimated them. There are dangers like feline leukemia, rabies not to mention other animals. Fleas, ticks or ear mites. Cats are domesticated creatures and they ought to be kept indoors and safe, and kept indoors for the birds to be safe.Keep in mind that I personally detest birds yet I am saying they have a real problem with cats.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:05:25 AM)
Camille, it isn't just birds that cats are in danger of cats. Doormice, voles, newts, slowworms, etc... I also read in a study that was released years ago that the most proficient 'hunter' among cats is the siamese. As with my first post, leukaemia is easily passed on... all it takes is a scratch/lick from one cat to another and why mine can never be introduced to other cats - b/c they're both carriers. quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Please, if you let your cat out do some reading on the songbird population in your area. You may think 'they're only birds' but the outdoor cat population has decimated them. There are dangers like feline leukemia, rabies not to mention other animals. Fleas, ticks or ear mites. Cats are domesticated creatures and they ought to be kept indoors and safe, and kept indoors for the birds to be safe.Keep in mind that I personally detest birds yet I am saying they have a real problem with cats.

MissMagnolia -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:06:16 AM)
To me it's a little like pulling a young dogs teeth out in case he/she chews something. Scratching does NOT have to be a big deal. I have a 16 year old moggy who has occasionally had a little scratch at the bed base and the back of the couch. The furniture gets a whole lot worse than that in normal usage. He has NEVER scratched a person. He can go in and out all he likes, as I leave a window open at all times. Domesticated or not, animals shouldn't be locked up all the time. Would you keep a child locked up for years to "keep it safe"? We're a whole lot more careful with our kids, so how is it ok to let kids play outside but not a cat? We take dogs for walks outside, why not cats? Have you ever seen an elephant swaying and going slowly insane in a zoo because intense boredom is sending them crazy? A dog who barks all day and all night because they never see anything but the backyard? I have and it's cruel and inhumane. Unless there is some legitimate reason for declawing a cat, it's a ridiculous, cruel and unnecessary act.

MadameMarque -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:09:49 AM)
Declawing is inhumane, for reasons others here have detailed. It really is gruesome and barbaric, though people sometimes don't realize it, because they do not understand the cat's anatomy. Really, if one wants to take all the animal out of an animal, just for their own convenience, then they do not want an animal; tell them to get a stuffed toy. The benefits of providing a scratching surface that the cat likes and training the cat where to scratch and where not to, would make the cat and the human happy. Even older cats can be trained. *Also, properly trimming a cat's (or dog's) nails means knowing how to find the quick of the cat's nails, and not cutting into it, as that would be like cutting into the pink of a human's fingernail.

camille65 -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:16:55 AM)
http://library.fws.gov/Bird_Publications/songbrd.html University of Wisconsin ornithologist, Dr. Santley Temple estimates that 20-150 million songbirds are killed each year by rural cats in Wisconsin alone. Feline predation is not "natural." Cats were domesticated by the ancient Egyptians and taken throughout the world by the Romans. Cats were brought to North America in the 1800's to control rats. The "tabby" that sits curled up on your couch is not a natural predator and has never been in the natural food chain in the Western Hemisphere. Cats are a serious threat to fledglings, birds roosting at night and birds on a nest. Research shows that de-clawing cats and bell collars *do not* prevent them from killing birds and other small animals. For healthy cats and wild birds, cats should not be allowed to roam free. http://birdadvocates.blogspot.com/2007/05/whats-killing-songbirds.html In Silence of the Songbirds, biologist Bridget Stutchbury (left) argues that songbirds are disappearing from our skies – an environmental danger sign equivalent to canaries in a coal mine. "We’ve lost nearly half the birds that filled our skies just 40 years ago," http://www.petplace.com/cats/the-great-debate-indoor-versus-outdoor-cats/page1.aspx Risks of outdoor life include exposure to infectious diseases, such as feline leukemia, feline immunodeficiency virus, feline infectious peritonitis, and rabies; injury or death occurring on busy roads; and attacks by predators. Not only does keeping cats indoors protect their health, it also protects the lives of countless birds that they would otherwise kill. In some areas, cats have severely reduced the populations of certain songbirds - almost to the point of extinction. http://www.petplace.com/cats/outdoor-dangers/page1.aspx Whether pedigreed or random-bred, the vast majority of cats can be perfectly happy indoors, calmly watching nature from the safety of their home, as long as a stimulating environment is provided. In fact, most United States cat experts – the Cat Fanciers Association, humane organizations and others – are continually trying to reach the public with the message that keeping a cat indoors protects him from disease and all manner and means of danger.

venusinblu -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:19:09 AM)
I would never declaw a cat - it leaves them defenceless in the outside world. Without claws they have no way of fending off other cats, they are unable to climb trees to escape dogs or other preditors. The cat does nothing wrong by using its claws on our furniture, they do it for a reason, not out of perversity - looked at obtusely, we are the ones who are wrong by expecting an animal to go against it's nature and not sharpen it's claws. We are the ones who are wrong when we expect cats not to kill. They are doing what comes naturally to them. I am sorry if I have repeated something others may have already said, but I was so inflamed by the idea of declawing, I just went on a rant .... gulp!

MissMorrigan -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:24:37 AM)
You aren't the only person that this practice incenses and no different than circuses that widely had their big cats' claws AND teeth removed as a standard practice. quote: ORIGINAL: venusinblu I would never declaw a cat - it leaves them defenceless in the outside world. Without claws they have no way of fending off other cats, they are unable to climb trees to escape dogs or other preditors. The cat does nothing wrong by using its claws on our furniture, they do it for a reason, not out of perversity - looked at obtusely, we are the ones who are wrong by expecting an animal to go against it's nature and not sharpen it's claws. We are the ones who are wrong when we expect cats not to kill. They are doing what comes naturally to them. I am sorry if I have repeated something others may have already said, but I was so inflamed by the idea of declawing, I just went on a rant .... gulp!

venusinblu -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:35:43 AM)
I think the thing which incenses me most is that Man takes the most hedonistic delight in the belief that nature shall succumb to Man's view, environment and delictation. How dare we try and change the genetic programming of the creatures of this Earth, how dare we? ... For the record - I detest the circus ... quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan You aren't the only person that this practice incenses and no different than circuses that widely had their big cats' claws AND teeth removed as a standard practice. quote: ORIGINAL: venusinblu I would never declaw a cat - it leaves them defenceless in the outside world. Without claws they have no way of fending off other cats, they are unable to climb trees to escape dogs or other preditors. The cat does nothing wrong by using its claws on our furniture, they do it for a reason, not out of perversity - looked at obtusely, we are the ones who are wrong by expecting an animal to go against it's nature and not sharpen it's claws. We are the ones who are wrong when we expect cats not to kill. They are doing what comes naturally to them. I am sorry if I have repeated something others may have already said, but I was so inflamed by the idea of declawing, I just went on a rant .... gulp!

MissMorrigan -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 2:54:03 AM)
Cats tend not to be declawed in the UK. When I was semi-living in Texas it was common practice for people to have their cats declawed, yet hypocritically denouncing circuses for their abhorrent practices. It's seemingly okay for a person to declaw a cat b/c they are then going to be housed in a loving home... It isn't a practice that is done for the good of the pet, it's for the owner's convenience. My two have a huge cat activity centre, which has scratching posts as 'steps' which lead up to several platforms as well as a little cave they can dive in/out of... both now sleep in it but ignore the scratching posts as they prefer to use an old cardboard box to sharpen their claws on. If I'd known how much enjoyment they'd get out of a cardboard box I would have saved myself almost £100! It was still worth it though, for the amusement factor of watching the female (who's a sandwich short of a picnic!) commando into the box upside down from the top platform. quote: ORIGINAL: venusinblu I think the thing which incenses me most is that Man takes the most hedonistic delight in the belief that nature shall succumb to Man's view, environment and delictation. How dare we try and change the genetic programming of the creatures of this Earth, how dare we? ... For the record - I detest the circus ...

venusinblu -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 3:05:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan My two have a huge cat activity centre, which has scratching posts as 'steps' which lead up to several platforms as well as a little cave they can dive in/out of... both now sleep in it but ignore the scratching posts as they prefer to use an old cardboard box to sharpen their claws on. If I'd known how much enjoyment they'd get out of a cardboard box I would have saved myself almost £100! My cat has an absolute fetish for large paper carrier bags .. 'Next' paper bags are her favorite - she loves their noise, they make a nice place for a nap and a great place to hide when she's been naughty! ... Like you, I spent good money on 'cat accessories' only to have them shunned for paper carrier bags .... !!

MissMorrigan -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 3:13:02 AM)
As an aside, Venus. You said you don't like circuses, and I am with you on that, so check out Cirque du Soleil. Very talented people. quote: ORIGINAL: venusinblu

Owner59 -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 5:29:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackKnight Declawing is wrong on so many levels, I'd be like removing your fingernails. Hurts the normal functionality of their claws, puts them in excessive pain. leaves them defencless. Just trim the claw like a fingernail, but only take off the tip! this way they don't have to sharpen them on furniture or anything. I'd be like removing your fingernails. A common myth.Draw the clippers farther back a centimeter or so,to your 1st finger joint.Now cut the whole thing off. Given a choice of having my hails pulled out,and having my fingertips cut off,I`d lose the nails. This is some ghastly shit.

urtoy -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 5:58:30 AM)
The first time I had a cat declawed was years ago when some expensive new furniture and a newborn baby factored into the decision. She adapted beautifully and I've had all my cats front declawed ever since. They stay inside, so self-defense isn't an issue, though I've seen a declawed cat climb a tree at lightning speed, so they're not completely helpless. Mostly, I can say that, after a brief convalescense, it doesn't seem to bother the cats at all and makes them far nicer pets, with fewer destructive tendencies.

Alumbrado -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 5:59:49 AM)
Use these instead... http://www.softclaws.com/default.asp Best 20 bucks I ever spent.

laurell3 -> RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? (1/27/2008 6:02:51 AM)
Both of my cats are declawed in the front only as that's how they do the majority of the damage (and it's actually a requirement where I live). On the few times they've escaped, gotten out and gotten into tiffs they do seem to be able to hold their own with just back claws. However, they are 99.9% of the time housecats.

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