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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/9/2008 1:26:27 PM   
Stephann


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You know, this might have been an entirely different thread had it been taken from the perspective I highlighted above.

I've been reading a lot of the responses since I posted last on this thread.  There have been a lot of people younger than I that have made wonderful points.  I fully acknowledge the fact that a general rule doesn't apply to everyone.  Some people are the exception to the rule.  Still, there are reasons that those generalizations exist.

Personally, I don't know a single 21 year old that I would agree with the particular title of "Master".  Which is ok, considering I know some 40 year olds who slap the title on themselves without especially being worthy of it, either.  In both age groups, there just really isn't enough real life experience in the lifestyle to warrent it.    Yep.  Sorry.  This is another one of those areas that I don't equate what one has done on the net to be on the same level as the real time deal. 

I suppose what I'm getting at for the sake of the discussion is, what has a person done to be considered a Master?  Have they actually owned a slave, and be responsible for their existance?  What skills have they Mastered?  What experience have contributed to them thinking they should assume the title?  Are they in control of themselves?  Do they have the ability to control someone else?  Yes, I know it's not everybody's thing, but how about their exposure to the leather community?

There is the slightest possibility that it takes more to be a Master, than simply being a dominant personality, or being the leader in a relationship.

Edited to fix a spelling mistake.


And to add, yes, experience counts for a lot.



Hiya Lady Pact,

You bet, experience counts for a lot. 

I've been with many women, far more than the average man.  The first few times I slept with a woman, I was pretty terrible.  Yet we're not talking about a skill where I need to be graded.  Certainly, being inexperienced in bed could lead to a dangerous situation.  Yet my personality is such that if I'm not experienced in an activity, I'm not likely to do something dangerous.  The assumption that an unskilled dominant is a dangerous dominant rings false in my ears.  What is really being said, is that an unskilled dominant is an unknown factor.  He might be dangerous, he might be harmless.  Yet the ability to wield a crop, flogger, or cane effectively does not a skilled Master make.

I equate a Master with someone who is skilled at owning and caring for a slave.  Some Masters have zero interest in the corporal aspects of M/s, and actively reject S&M (Goreans spring to mind here.)  This doesn't make them any less an owner of their slaves; a person who owns a racehorse doesn't necessarily need to race them, to own them.

I agree, a 21 year old Master is generally less likely to be fully prepared for the burdens of slave owning than a 41 year old Master.  But from where I stand, I find that most 41 year olds are equally unprepared to own a slave; it takes a very specific mindset and set of expectations in a relationship to, in my opinion, successfully and healthily own another person.  I find it far more common and wise for people to engage in less demanding forms of Dominant/submissive relationships, just as I think it's more common and wise for people to enjoy a hot air balloon ride over hang gliding.  They're similar activities, with very different physical and mental demands.

Back on topic: I don't see any specific skillset required for one to feel they are worthy of the title Master.  Yet, I don't believe that anyone need call another person Master, unless they are owned by that person.  My slave has been instructed to use the honorific "Sir" when meeting other dominants, unless otherwise instructed by that person.  If she's told by that person to call him Master, she does. Not because I have recognized him to be such, but because her existance in such situations is for the pleasure of those around her and not herself.  If he wants to be called Almighty Grand Puba of the Hippopatami, than that's exactly what she calls him.  For myself, I don't call other people Master.  Period.  Ever.  I don't even call myself 'A Master.'  The title, for me, is exclusively reserved for my slaves, and slaves who feel compelled to use such a title.

Beyond the title, the first time I had a slave call me Master, I was 25.  I wasn't mentally or physically prepared to actually own a slave yet, but I don't think anyone ever really is.  I was mentally and physically ready to learn.  I might have been ready to learn at 20 years of age.  I do know that the older I was, the more prepared I was to learn, but I also know myself well enough to realize that owning a slave at 20 wouldn't have been dangerous for the slave.  It's not unlike someone who says "I had sex at 18, but would have been more prepared for it at 22 years of age."  The longer you wait for such things, the better prepared you'll be when you undertake them.... but you'd have missed out on four years of potential experience.  Thus someone who started responsibly enjoying sex at 18 is likely to be far more experienced and skilled at 23, than someone who started enjoying at 22.

In short, it's far less important 'when' you engage in M/s or D/s relationships than it is 'how' and 'why' you engage in them.  I find a positive attitude, enthusiasm, and responsibility to be vastly more important towards one being a competent "Master" than any birth date.  These are the traits we should be addressing.

Stephan


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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/9/2008 1:30:31 PM   
CalifChick


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Awww cmon, Stephan!  You're trying to take all the fun out of laughing at the 19 yr old with "over 10 years experience as a dominant man and master", who then wants to know about removing parts of his "slave" or who says "she can't safeword because I don't think she really means it".

Pffffffffftttttttttttt.  Party pooper.

Cali


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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/9/2008 1:37:55 PM   
sylkenkitten


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Quote from OP:
    It is a Big responsebility, to call yourself a Master/Mistress

I'm sorry there 'Goddezz' but how exactly is it a Big responsIbility to CALL yourself a Master/Mistress?

Personally .. that's just a term of endearment, something that a submissive, slave or even a bottom may call their partner, for a scene or always, it's much like Dear or Hon or Baby or even Lover .. yes there is a certain different level of perhaps respect or attributing a level of authority when it's used, however calling oneself a Master or Mistress isn't the responsibility...

The responsibility is in our actions, whether we are submissive or Dominant...

A person may be addressed as Master or Mistress no matter their age, it comes from experience.. ..and while with age comes WISDOM .. experience .. is a whole other ball of wax and starts the moment you are born ... and ends... well never..

~Kitten

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/9/2008 1:47:33 PM   
Justme696


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overhere you are seen as adult afther 18. So I actually don't care how 2 adults call and see eachother :P aslong they don't hurt eachother in a bad way

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/9/2008 2:56:48 PM   
Archer


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Just going to chime in with this idea again.

At 21 you can be somebody's "Master" however it would be a 1 in a trillion shot that you would be skilled and experienced enough to be A Master.
Now this is taken in the context of my book, which is of course the be all end all reference of all kinky knowledge.

The trouble is once again the lack of a definate universal definition of Master. (which my book solves just as soon as the world decides to acknowldge my Ubur Mastery.)




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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/10/2008 1:37:06 PM   
Quadrum


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Phoooh, this is a endless discussion.
I personally hate most of it, reason that i am 21 and a "master".

I dont think a person that hasent seen me nor met me can say anything about me at all.

Nor do i think you can judge this at all.
this is not about age.
this is about the emotional and the caring.

bdsm is just a word that barely describes the emotion behind it.

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/10/2008 2:44:27 PM   
Justme696


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quadrum

Phoooh, this is a endless discussion.
I personally hate most of it, reason that i am 21 and a "master".

I dont think a person that hasent seen me nor met me can say anything about me at all.

Nor do i think you can judge this at all.
this is not about age.
this is about the emotional and the caring.

bdsm is just a word that barely describes the emotion behind it.



and because all of what you mention we discuss it :P
questions are food for thought ;)


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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/10/2008 7:44:37 PM   
Mirko


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Original Poster,

Age is how old you are supposed to be acting. Maturity on the other hand is knowing your point of view and framing that in the context of another's point of view. I judge people on how they act, not on what their age is. I have met 20 year olds who already have businesses set up, and 30 year olds that still want to act like they're a frat boy, and I'm fairly sure there are some 21+ masters that definately don't live up to their titles.

Personally, I'm 21 and I take many precautions before doing anything. I haven't moved into advanced areas such as vacumn beds or suspension, but I am learning from seasoned members of the community, and I make sure to ask my submissive questions to find out their limits and make sure they are comfortable with everything I'm doing.

Just because you haven't met a "Master" who is 21 doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have seen Kobe score 40 points in one night on TV, but I'm still pretty sure that he exists and can score that many points.


< Message edited by Mirko -- 3/10/2008 7:48:17 PM >

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 6:09:54 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mirko

Original Poster,

Age is how old you are supposed to be acting. Maturity on the other hand is knowing your point of view and framing that in the context of another's point of view. I judge people on how they act, not on what their age is. I have met 20 year olds who already have businesses set up, and 30 year olds that still want to act like they're a frat boy, and I'm fairly sure there are some 21+ masters that definately don't live up to their titles.

Personally, I'm 21 and I take many precautions before doing anything. I haven't moved into advanced areas such as vacumn beds or suspension, but I am learning from seasoned members of the community, and I make sure to ask my submissive questions to find out their limits and make sure they are comfortable with everything I'm doing.

Just because you haven't met a "Master" who is 21 doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have seen Kobe score 40 points in one night on TV, but I'm still pretty sure that he exists and can score that many points.



I haven't met Kobe either, but exactly how long has he been playing professional?  I wonder how many years he spent on the actual court before that.  Not being a huge sports fan, I'd still be willing to bet it was hours upon days, weeks, months, years focused on one singular craft.

I'm also willing to bet that he isn't referred to as a player as a 'term of endearment', as someone said above.  Heck, I'm even sure he'd be a famous player, even if he was suddenly signed to another team.

I agree.  Since you saw Kobe on tv, I think he probably does exist.  I'm not by any means suggesting that everything on television is real, but I'm betting that, with the right tickets to the arena, you most certainly could see him play.


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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 6:38:41 AM   
LilMissHaven


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I would honestly like to claim that I'm not so petty as to let someone's age or lack there of interefere with their ability to lead myself.  But, I'm 21...

Probably more then enough said!

Respectfully,
Haven



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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 7:00:02 AM   
Justme696


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?
lol   ...it bothers you...
I just said...the questions he raised..is why we discuss it here. If you read my previous comments...you will see I didn't judge at all ;)

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 7:05:29 AM   
LilMissHaven


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Actually, Mirko your words, precautions and willingness to listen and learn impress me.

I look forward to more of your personal insights.

Haven

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 7:06:42 AM   
DiurnalVampire


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To the OP
I started in ths lifestyle at 18, with a very good mentor. At 21 I was more than capable of being a Master (or Mistress in my case) becasue I spent the preceeding years learning what it was going to take. Thats like saying how can a 21 year old get married and raise a family, or do just about anything else. Some people are ready and able by 21, some will hit 50 and still not have the knowhow and abilities to do so. Age is not a magical number at all, and far too many people treat it as it is and pass by oppertunities with the right ones because of it.

DV


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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 7:08:17 AM   
DerangedUnit


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i dont see how age makes a difference... ive met many older Doms who knew absolutely nothing my Master is 21 and is the best i've ever been with though He like me have been in the lifestyle for quite sometime despite our age (His other 2 pets were both new though) He started out as a slave and earned His title and i was born into a family farmiliar with bdsm and raised in that manner both of us have had people twice our age ask to apprentice under us.... i still have so much to learn but in my opinion one person can acomplish in a month what another might not learn in 10 years it depends on the person their soul and who they were ment to be and how far they will allow themselves to go....wisdom is not protrayed by years alive but things learned

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 7:48:43 AM   
Justme696


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Who cares what age one is...you accept the person in a relation. Aslong you don't think you know all..and still are open to learn..all will be o.k.

@DiurnalVampire
Your family example is a good one.


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 3/11/2008 7:49:18 AM >


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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 8:14:36 AM   
Archer


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One additional note to show the years of life make a difference.
Lets take an impossible situation and explore it a bit to prove the point.
A time machine has transported a 25 year old Master back in time to meet his 21 year old Master self.
Who is going to be the wiser and better "Master"? Same man/woman same cognative ability, same relative maturity, all other things have been made equal between the two.

All other things being equal those 4 years of living will make a huge difference.

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 9:01:27 AM   
Quadrum


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Archer, You cannot say the being 100% right. Its a possibility.

Facts, how do get human characters created ?

You get born, parents raise you, so a big part you have of youreself has been put in by your parents.

Another enormous part comes in with everything you bump in in life.

Certain things in life can change you. So in time you CAN get worse then you originally where.

So yes, your alot of cases you are right, in some you are not.

With that i add.

Suppose you start at 18 and you now are 48
So 30 years of your life spend in BDSM which following your line of reasoning is better than a person whos started at 18 and is now 21.

Depends, since if the person who is 48 did 1 session a month and thoughed only of it when actually doing it, i dont think he could be in any way more experienced than the 21 year old who since his 18 has led and exessive life concentrating on the most important thing in life, his slav/sub, how to control her with the iron fist, while yet loving her to the deepest core and making her happy
bdsm to me is a daily job. Not a hobby.
It is something i deal with daily, i see daily, bdsm is my life as my life is bdsm.

I think you with all those 21 years old in your eyes its those from my first example, no ?

p.s. Apologies about all the misspells, my english isn't 100% in writing.

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 10:14:55 AM   
Justme696


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I think the problem of age starts to get bigger when the difference of age between 2 persons get bigger.
Life experience..and the way you view things..change when getting older ..and those don't always fit to younger peoples thoughts.



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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 10:22:29 AM   
Dnomyar


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Mmmm from 18 to 21 and knows it all. Egomanic comes to mind. Im not saying that you are because the mod would get angry with me. Dimwit would probably be to strong also. So I will just LMAO.

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RE: How can a 21 year old possibly be a Master? - 3/11/2008 10:40:54 AM   
Quadrum


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Justme696, i totally agree on that. I have difficulity to think that a 21 year old could dominate a person in its 30/40s. Offcourse anything is possible.

Dnomyar, try using common sence when reading. Im NOT all knowing, im just trying to explain my oppinion, if you have problems with that, please send a pm.

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