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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 5:58:51 AM   
Gwynvyd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Female supremacy is not accepted, end of story.  Male supremacy has a board dedicated to a following of it.  Lets talk when there is a Fem Supreme equivalent. 


Just because some doinks took a Sci-fi book series as the gospel doesnt mean that Male Supreamacy is right nor more then a bunch of trekies running around dressed as Klingons at cons means there really are Klingons. ( Well hell.. there are books, theres a langauge.. and damnit.. the Klingons got movies! did the Goreans? huh huh? Nope.)

*shakes her head*

as I stated earlier.. the ablity to spew out childrens makes women no better.. and ( said in movie announcer echoie voice ) "The Cosmic Dinky" doesnt give anyone a divine right to do shit.

All of the Bitchy-Pissy Worship me now.. and Machismo "your just a mere woman" BS in the world doesnt change a damn thing. Unless the doink who is spewing that crap runs into a weak willed moron who doesnt value themselves as a free thinking person... or who is into that sort of submission. *shrugs* different strokes for different folks. If you want to be treated like a used tissue.. be my guest.. but dont freakin whine about it if you allowed it to happen.

*snickers* well they have thier own forum... *leaves shaking her head and laughing*

Gwyn

*disclaimer ~ not all Goreans have lost thier ever lovin minds.. some realize the books are not real life.. in a real place. Some like aspects of the books, and strive to be a strong male figure.. and do not buy into alot of the external BS that seems to be prevalent.

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 6:03:18 AM   
LadyHathor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Mabey male seperamacy came about because of all the wars the men fought in. How many women were in foxholes ect. getting shot at during all of the big wars. A lot of the men went thru hell. Were they supposed To come back home and have a woman tell them to bow down to them. Now that women are fighting in the middle east mabey they will come back with that same attitude.  In my opinion you can take the word supremancy and shove it.



as Lady Chablis would say, ahem ahem, you there---flawed thinking---  take notes--- Joan of Arc being one, DEBORAH SAMSON, Rachel and Grace Martin  and Nancy Morgan Heart from the Revolution, Sarah Rosetta Wakemen, Belle Boyd and the 400 other women who fought in the Civil War, Edith Cavell and Mati Hari in WW 1 to name a few, the Angels of Vietnam---thousands of women who fought side by side with male comrades, Eleanor of Aquitaine, Eleanor of Castile, Marguerite de Provence, Florine of Denmark and Berengaria of Navarre who fought in the Crusades--( Berengaria by the way is My ancestor)--890 AD Thyra, Queen of Denmark,Jeanne of Navarre (1271-1304) ruler of Navarre, Brie and Champagne and wife of King Philip the Fair of France led her army against that of the Count de Bar when he attempted to rebel against her.
 
Shall I continue? Women have been fighting in wars since the world began--oh and the Bible talks of Deborah leader of the Hittites---so go back and do some homework. So the whole whine whine males go off to be killed and women don't--holds no water.

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 8:24:36 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Unpacks away Her --Zena Warrior Princess Costume, sends for Gabriele and dusts off the Hathor Manifesto of Supreme Dominantion.



You know, Gabrielle is my ideal of submissive womanhood


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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 8:30:39 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatWhoWalksAlone

A good argument for female supremacy.... we clearly have superior intelligence!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Mabey male seperamacy came about because of all the wars the men fought in. How many women were in foxholes ect. getting shot at during all of the big wars. 



You know, from an anthropological perspective you are on to something there.. we also convinced men to go off and hunt for meat because we had wee ones to care for... it isn't fun leaving the village for days at a time, and we duped them into that too


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 8:35:18 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Julia, you make me laugh in a good way!  Love that whole hunting/gathering thing!

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 8:41:10 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Then there are cultures that had menstrual taboos... so they would stick women at home or in a little shed designed for them because they were seen as "unclean" when on the rag... well I certainly would love approximately 5 days a month off to gossip with other women that were on the rag too. No wee ones to care for, no dinner to cook, no veggies to pick. Oh yeah, sign me up for that!

But those taboos were supposed to show how "inferior" women were in those cultures... hardly!

I made one of my professors laugh with that observation


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 8:43:17 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		And the one where they are "unclean" around the time of giving birth, so they have time off to just hang with other women and their newborns......  that one is a fave.

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 8:47:35 AM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

it isn't fun leaving the village for days at a time, and we duped them into that too


I think you have a very skewed view on what men do and don't enjoy, particularly when the "villiage" is a series of makeshift tents (at best) with a fire pit in the center.

So, going off and hunting, running around after animals and hanging out with other men while being closest to the source of new meat that they could cook on the trail before bringing it back to the others?  Yeah, I'm sure men hated that!  ;P

(Just to point it out, when people were still hunters and gathers, many villiages were quite makeshift because they had to continually move with their prey.  This is why they were called "nomads".  Their extremely early technology which likely wasn't too concerned for housing structures likely also contributed to rather poor shelters.  The Native American tents were rather elegant solutions, really, but one must remember that those probably weren't invented so early on.)  Because I'm a dork like that.

Don't worry, I know you were kidding, but it was kinda funny.  :P  Then I got stuck on a history rant.

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:02:21 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Actually some anthropologists believe that men romanticized the hunt precisely because it wasn't a pleasant thing to have to leave home to do. Hunters and gatherers were nomadic, but nomadic does not mean hand to mouth. Perhaps they did not have cell phones, cable television and the internet.... but they were comfortable nonetheless. Their seasonal camps varied in size depending on how long they intended to stay, and how many other bands would meet up with them. We know this from the archaeological record, as well as from historical accounts,

I spent three weeks on a dig that went back over 500 years of prehistory in my state. The peoples that used this site were very intelligent... it was situated at an ecotone, meaning they had more variety to subsist off of. There were also burials there (which we were not allowed to touch). I would hardly call what the people there did as hand to mouth. In addition ancient peoples in North America cached their food from season to season depending on the surplus. So the next year when they came back to a place they had our equivalent to canned foods on hand... just sayin


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:09:26 AM   
LadyHathor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Unpacks away Her --Zena Warrior Princess Costume, sends for Gabriele and dusts off the Hathor Manifesto of Supreme Dominantion.



You know, Gabrielle is my ideal of submissive womanhood



Actually, she was ! I always thought that relationship was hot---always made Me wonder about something hidden in Me---Xena and Gabrielle---heh

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Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:17:46 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		..so you're a dork, too?   Awesome.  :D  My apologies for the stupid explanation above then!  Sounds like you know far more about this than me.

But do they really men didn't like going out and hunting?  Hell, if there weren't video games, every boy in America would probably have a BB gun and be shooting squirrels right now!  (Or/and each other.)  Heh.. I remember my uncle telling me about that.  As a former Boy Scout, I know that going out and camping can be a lot of fun, as we went out of our way just for the ability to be able to do so!  But hunting trips are something entirely different, a tier above that to some.  They have that adventerous, meaningful aspect to them.

For as much as I would have to concede to an anthropologist's knowledge of tools, structures, and even the generalities of lifestyle (not that I would know better on the specifics, just I imagine we're all left to speculation there), I do doubt that they understand the male mind very well if they actually believe that men hated going away from the women to shoot and/or beat and/or slice prey and/or other men.  (Although they were probably pretty upset if the other men shot and/or beat and/or sliced them.  Then again, if they survived, they were probably proud of it.  :P)

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:28:16 AM   
AquaticSub


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Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I dunno. I'd agree that hunting has really been "assigned" as the "manly thing to do". I know several men who never had an interest in hunting. While people tend to love to watch violence, I don't think it is a man thing (women loved to watch fights to the death in Roman times and mothers would bring children to watching people hang) or that video games that keep boys from shooting squirrels. As a gamer myself, I find men tend to be surprised by just how many female voices you can hear in group chat on MMOs.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/30/2008 9:29:11 AM >

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:35:33 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

so you're a dork, too?   Awesome.  :D



No, I am not a "dork" because I know these things, I have studied them for years academically. I am a dork because I enjoy South Park, Star Trek, and MMORPGs

quote:

But do they really men didn't like going out and hunting?  Hell, if there weren't video games, every boy in America would probably have a BB gun and be shooting squirrels right now!  (Or/and each other.)  Heh.. I remember my uncle telling me about that.  As a former Boy Scout, I know that going out and camping can be a lot of fun, as we went out of our way just for the ability to be able to do so!  But hunting trips are something entirely different, a tier above that to some.  They have that adventerous, meaningful aspect to them.


I am sure men enjoyed hunting and male rites of passage associated with it. I also think that these rites and rituals and sense of belonging that men experience when away from the womenfolk ease the loneliness of being away from hearth and home.. of not being with the wee ones, of not having the comfort of a wife to hold at night.

Men also glorify war. Most men would not sign up for going to war unless it was glorified. People tend to glorify the brave warrior and the brave hunter precisely because it is not easy, it can be dangerous, and sleeping in foxholes ain't fun. If there was no societal reward for such things, men probably wouldn't do them. Women are as capable as men of hunting and being soldiers, but women of wee one bearing age have better uses. Pregnant and nursing women are a drag on the trail when one has to keep up with the prey.


quote:

(not that I would know better on the specifics, just I imagine we're all left to speculation there),


Not really, we know what people ate, we have found caches, we know how well nourished people were, how long they lived, etc etc etc. We even know how far trade for certain items went... and where the trade routes were at certain times... there are a lot of things one can tell about the well being of people just by what they left behind



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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:49:00 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		They're surprised, but one must admit they're relatively few, and also that MMO's are some of the less sterotypically manly of games.  (Although one should readily admit that tags like The Sims may be female dominated.)  But, for the sake of my point here, I do mean more of shooters.

It is nice to play WoW, though, and know that at least a few of the female characters you see aren't boys.  It cuts an edge off how disturbing it is when you see female characters flirting and offering cyber-sexual favors to higher levels for money..  (That, plus it's nice to have girls around.  The whole guys-pretending-to-be-girls thing does irk me a good bit..)

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:51:12 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		I'm afraid I have a couple of classes to take care of, but it's an interesting discussion, so I'll try to catch back up later this evening.  Have a good one!

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:53:41 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

As a gamer myself, I find men tend to be surprised by just how many female voices you can hear in group chat on MMOs.


On my game I do have a high combat level, but only because it was necessary to kill stuff to get the herbs I needed to make potions....lol. Showing that women are highly mercenary, I only kill for profit


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 9:57:41 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

They're surprised, but one must admit they're relatively few, and also that MMO's are some of the less sterotypically manly of games.  (Although one should readily admit that tags like The Sims may be female dominated.)  But, for the sake of my point here, I do mean more of shooters.

It is nice to play WoW, though, and know that at least a few of the female characters you see aren't boys.  It cuts an edge off how disturbing it is when you see female characters flirting and offering cyber-sexual favors to higher levels for money..  (That, plus it's nice to have girls around.  The whole guys-pretending-to-be-girls thing does irk me a good bit..)
 

It doesn't irk me at all - I understand the reasoning. If you are going to spend hours watching someone run, it might as well be a nice ass you can admire. I just play women because I tend to find women more attractive than men on a superficial level.

That said... it could because I'm in the gamer club at my college but I know plenty of girls who do the shooter thing too. You do not know pwnage until you've been ruthlessly mocked by a female doing the victory dance in front of your guy friends. I've got girl friends who do the whole standing in line thing for a game's release. My female friends and I loved the game that got the first person shooter craze started, 007 Golden Eye.

Personally, I think the reason less women are involved is because men don't really want us involved or think we are capable. One Val's issues of GameInformer this year contained a letter from a young man asking the editors to print an explaination to his girlfriend why she was incapable of mastering anything beyond four buttons so she shouldn't bother trying to be as good as he is.

Sexism is alive and well in the gaming world. Thankfully, the editors told him, in so many words, how much of an idiot he is and that they would love to watch him go head-to-head with the talented female gamers they know.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/30/2008 10:00:56 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 10:03:40 AM   
Dnomyar


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Status: offline 		You ever hear of the draft. 18 years old and you were in the army. You think that men didnt try to buy their way out of the civil war. What about draft dodgers. Do you think that the men serving in the Civil war, ww1 or ww2 or vietman thought it was gloryus being there. Say that the early men didnt leave to hunt and fish. What would the women and children live on. Ok rants over.

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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 10:10:13 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

You ever hear of the draft. 18 years old and you were in the army. You think that men didnt try to buy their way out of the civil war. What about draft dodgers. Do you think that the men serving in the Civil war, ww1 or ww2 or vietman thought it was gloryus being there. Say that the early men didnt leave to hunt and fish. What would the women and children live on. Ok rants over.


Please explain why this rant is directed at me?

Did I say that "all" men want to hunt and fish and join the army?

Did I ever say that women shouldn't appreciate the fruits of a man's labor?

By the same token, women provide more calories than men do to the hunter gatherer diet... just not all calories are equal, protien is more valuable and harder to come by... therefore, behold the glorious hunter!

There is no battle of the sexes in my mind. I love men! All people are valuable, have something to contribute to the group. One gender is not superior to another. Anyone who would assert that is just silly from my perspective. But yanno, if you think men are superior because they can kill shit, more power to ya!


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RE: Why is that? - 1/30/2008 10:11:34 AM   
AquaticSub


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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

You ever hear of the draft. 18 years old and you were in the army. You think that men didnt try to buy their way out of the civil war. What about draft dodgers. Do you think that the men serving in the Civil war, ww1 or ww2 or vietman thought it was gloryus being there. Say that the early men didnt leave to hunt and fish. What would the women and children live on. Ok rants over.


Try? You were allowed to buy your way out of wars for some time, you just paid someone else to serve in your place. The practice was banned, I believe, during the Civil War.

But war is glorified. It's always been glorified. Read your cultural history - many of the Southern gentlemen wanted to go to war. People with no personal experience with war thought it would be a short, glorious affair and they would come back with spiffy uniforms and dignified war wounds. When gunpowder was invented and turned into guns, people lamented the end of "chivalrious" warfare because base peasents could kill noble knights.

As for what would the women live on... well I don't know if you are aware of this but women are very capable of hunting ourselves. It was just easier to have the women stay home and take care of the kids since we were producing the milk.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Dnomyar)
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