RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master

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MollyTroubletail -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 8:41:32 AM)
I don't think there is any better advice than the biblical "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Seriously, I mean that.

AquaticSub -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 8:46:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: Rover He's leaving for a week and you're calling it "abandonment"? John who is biting his tongue so hard that it's bleeding yeah.. to me the time will be both simply a week and also stretch forever..... but it was the method he told me, as ii could hearr the sat nav in the car as he told me and it had already been planned without a care in the world....DROPPED, AND YES I WOULD CALL IT EMOTIONAL ABANDONMENT like me being on an emotional bungy jump and someone pushing me over the edge and saying o by the way i just cut the rope...... It's emotional abandonment for him to leave a week and tell you ahead of time? Damn, even Valyraen doesn't expect me to never take a vacation without him and I'm the owned one! Edited add: IMHO, if you want to leave just do it. Nothing is going to stop him from being a prick if he wants to be one and I don't believe someone who would try to force a person to stay with them when they want to leave deserves to be served.

crouchingtigress -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 8:59:20 AM)
i agree with chellekitty, i think that you are suffering from a slave mindset. for folks that have not gone there fully including the dominants on here and many of the subs it might be very hard to understand how that colors your judgement...now this is the thing, you can easily go into slave mind set with out having a invested or skilled master, sometimes just a figure head is enough to go there and go there completly. i think that help is a good idea. but beyond that i think that just upping and leaving in this situation as many are urging you to do would be the same as being hyponotised for several hours and then suddnly having to wake up , with out any sort of awarenes that it was time to come back...or the count back up to full consiousness. what this looked liked for me in my slavery was that i had to kneel and beg my release for 30 days ...every morning on my knees asking "master would you please release this slave" we had agreed to this protocol for several reasons 1 because of sub drop 2 because sometimes things coud be said in anger and confusion 3 because it showed a sincere effort for me, to honor my end of our agreement 4 because it showed his committment to making it work 5 because it showed him very seriously how much i was suffering 6 because it showed our committment to the tool that D/s can be in navigating challenges. sometimes i would get to day 8 and we would both be crying, and the gravity of the end of our dynamic looming so powerfully would make us stop and try new things...(what i like about d/s is there are so many non conventional tools at your finger tips to try new things) begging release for me was also a way to count back up from the slave mindset, each day i got stronger in myself and my intention, and he cut the cords a little more each time. your fellow does not seem as invested, but maybe that is inaccurate...has he told you why he wont release you?

Rule -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 9:44:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx it's the passive lying...is he entitled to do that as a Master No. But that is an issue that may be solved by communication.

Lashra -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 9:49:19 AM)
Don't ask to be released just leave you do have that right. If you've asked twice and he's ignored you both times maybe that in itself is a yes. If this relationship isn't fulfilling you in the way that you need it to, why stay? Find someone who can be the type of Master that you need and want. ~Lashra

Rover -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 9:51:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx no it hasn't been several it's actually been the same one... Whether they have been different relationships or different renditions of the same relationship is immaterial in my opinion. quote: and i haven;t been posting solely and only about mu relationships but have also i believed contributed and supported others anout their's.... I never said or implied that you had posted solely about your relationships. quote: m not offended by your sytematic approach and intelligence it's just that i don't do systematic thinng ver well...i am not an emotoonal engineer i am an emotional creative artist. Thanks for not being offended, though your uncharacteristic misspellings do indicate a hurried and emotional reply. Which is more than understandable given how direct my post was. Though, such a public exorcism does invite public comment of all type. quote: It was never my intention to present myself as an Oprah. You can always refuse the ticket anyway. Nor did I imply that you were Oprah. Moreso that the public examination of your relationship has been akin to what can commonly be seen on Oprah or Jerry. In that regard, Collarme is Oprah (or Jerry) and you are the guest. quote: I suspect you have absolutely no need of emotional discussion and no emotional crossroads in yor life and are therefore directionally fixed right now. I'm not sure what all that means, nor its relevance to your relationship. John

ownedgirlie -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 10:21:29 AM)
I'll only respond with my own personal experiences. I used to feel this way, because my Master did not return the affection that I wanted him to. And it would really upset me, and there would be screaming and gnashing of teeth (ok, not really, but close!) but he would not budge, since he will not change who he is. Oh yeah, I accused him of abandonment, of just toying me, of all sorts of unflattering and inappropriate motivations. Why? Because I wasn't getting my way, which meant, of course, that he was a big asshole who didn't give a shit about me. When I stepped back enough to see the big picture, I saw all the ways he shows his love and care - ways that I wore blinders to before. When I was "dropping" the blinders turned into full fledged blindfolds. While I never asked for release at that time, if I had, he likely would have said no, too, because I would not be asking with a clear mind - I would be asking as a knee-jerk, emotional response to not getting my way. I've seen girls cry out "I want to be released!!" for many reasons other than actually wanting to be released - namely, they're angry and lashing out. Some dominants see this and refuse release until they can engage in calm, rational dialogue. It's a nice concept that I wish more people would try. I suggest stepping back, breathing, and journaling all your thoughts so you can sort through them. Sometimes my Master doesn't tell me where he is going because in my case I'm not entitled to know and he is teaching me patience, trust, and how to handle myself in his absence. And being away doesn't necessarily mean no contact, at least in my case it doesn't. In short, calm down. Take a breath and reassess. Figure out the crux of it before making decisions.

Rule -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 10:41:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Yes he is an amputee and sometimes i feel that this has made Him psychologically one of the strongest people i have ever known but i am beginning to see the flaws and the flaw is that he is unwilling to allow Himself to feel..to 'feel'. I was alluding to a handicap of the mind... Anyway, him being an amputee of some kind may shed a bit of illumination on the structure of his mind. quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx he already allows and encourages poly but no amount of poly will compensate for His hardness of heart, which both keeps me and repels me. I was not alluding to poly as a sexual relationship with no strings, but as a bond, as a commitment, as in marriage. Now I gather that you are not living together? Why not? What kind of relationship is that? An uncommitted relationship? It seems to me that you have sufficient soul for the both of you, so him apparently being soulless makes you essential to him. quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Also if i do not fulfil His requirements and He is taking others secretly and maintains it is His right to do so then at heart he is a liar and i pit truth above ALL else. Well, ask him if he does take others secretly. If so, then tell him that telling lies is not the manly thing to do. quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx One thing is enlightening from what you have said in as much that he does not see the consequences of His behavour as His responsibility: it is always my fault. That is what concerns me the most: as the dominant he is the one who ought to be responsible. This is too far from me to analyse. There is too little data. I have not been following your previous forum posts, except incidentally, so I have no idea what your and his minds are like. It seems to me that what the both of you need is communication and someone to counsel you who is on the case and able to perceive and solve your problems. The big issue as I see it is not his lack of soul, but rather his refusal to assume responsibility.

SimplyMichael -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 11:07:23 AM)
A master can do anything he wants to you, (deleted period because some might construe I think "we" should be obeyed/all powerful/uber, etc.) You can do anything you want in response. If the next day you both wake up happy because he did, congratulations, you MIGHT have a healthy relationship. If your life starts getting better, old problems fall away, new and better paths open up, chances are you ARE in a healthy relationship. If not, and you remain, YOU might not be healthy... I have done the "break up and get back together" bullshit, my first D/s relationship we did that I don't know how many times during our three or so years together. Ugly breakups, drama, the whole shebang. Neither of us were healthy although she was more squared away than I. My previous relationship wasn't really D/s but started off like the above but through counseling and a real desire to change, I became much more healthy. I still have issues I need to work on but realizing MY part in who I allowed into my life, who I allowed to remain, and what sort of drama swirled around me was the key to understanding what I need and still need to work on. Rover held up a mirror, if you don't like what you see, you have two choices, turn away and pretend you didn't see it or take a long and honest look and start changing what you see. The choice is yours.

HeidiAnn -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 11:08:56 AM)
I don't really have any pearls of wisdom to offer. I personally couldn't be in a relationship where my SO would tell me he's leaving for a week, but would refuse to tell where. So you're not alone in that.:) I have my needs and one of them is the need to share little things, like where we spend our weeks at. Unless he'd have a super-secret agent-job, lol. Best wishes to you, hope you get things sorted out in a nice way.

ownedgirlie -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 11:12:22 AM)
quote: I still have issues I need to work on but realizing MY part in who I allowed into my life, who I allowed to remain, and what sort of drama swirled around me was the key to understanding what I need and still need to work on. Using this quote, I'll ask the OP to look at this. In recovering from my marriage, my therapist kept telling me to recognize MY part in this. I would tell him to fuck off, because >I< wasn't the one doing all the abusive shit in my marriage. WTF did he mean, MY part?? And then one day I walked in his office and asked, "Why did I let someone treat me this way?" He stood up and cheered, and said NOW we're making progress. It was the beginning of understanding how to create healthy boundaries for myself and how I would allow myself to be treated. Understanding myself and protecting my boundaries eliminated most of the drama in my life, much of which I created myself.

lauren0221 -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 11:21:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: I still have issues I need to work on but realizing MY part in who I allowed into my life, who I allowed to remain, and what sort of drama swirled around me was the key to understanding what I need and still need to work on. Using this quote, I'll ask the OP to look at this. In recovering from my marriage, my therapist kept telling me to recognize MY part in this. I would tell him to fuck off, because >I< wasn't the one doing all the abusive shit in my marriage. WTF did he mean, MY part?? And then one day I walked in his office and asked, "Why did I let someone treat me this way?" He stood up and cheered, and said NOW we're making progress. It was the beginning of understanding how to create healthy boundaries for myself and how I would allow myself to be treated. Understanding myself and protecting my boundaries eliminated most of the drama in my life, much of which I created myself. Very wise advice, owned. The thing about accepting responsibility is that it means that you have a say in what happens to you. It means you can change things. It means you can make healthy choices. It means you can make your life what you want and need it to be. When everything is someone else's fault, you are (incorrectly IMHO) abdicating your responsibility for yourself.

ownedgirlie -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 11:32:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lauren0221 When everything is someone else's fault, you are (incorrectly IMHO) abdicating your responsibility for yourself. Very true, but until one is ready to see, it is almost impossible. Sometimes the truth is just too painful, and we can't face it until we're strong enough too. It was a very difficult moment when I asked that question, but learning the answers propelled me to a much healthier (and happier) life.

Leatherist -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 11:33:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover He's leaving for a week and you're calling it "abandonment"? John who is biting his tongue so hard that it's bleeding Someone needs to abandon her neediness. Takes work-but it CAN be done.

SimplyMichael -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 11:55:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: lauren0221 When everything is someone else's fault, you are (incorrectly IMHO) abdicating your responsibility for yourself. Very true, but until one is ready to see, it is almost impossible. Sometimes the truth is just too painful, and we can't face it until we're strong enough too. It was a very difficult moment when I asked that question, but learning the answers propelled me to a much healthier (and happier) life. Exactly! I spent the first thirty years of my life being unaware of what a domineering (as opposed to consensual domination) asshole I was. Then I became a dominant but when I couldn't make relationships work I finally realized that I was emotionally abusive because I couldn't ask for certain needs to be met. Namely, the less "manly" stuff related to security/love, I could ask someone to lick my toilet clean but not hug me. Until I was honest enough to look at MY role in what went wrong, I negotiated more, had more slave contracts, copied what worked for others, in short, looked outside myself for the solution. It was only when I realize that it was ME that had to change that I could start to work on it. First I had to find out what caused my anger, which was not getting needs met that I just could ask to be met. I need to be touched, not sexually, but lovingly to feel love and I would blow up at some point because they couldn't READ MY FUCKING MIND! I couldn't set boundaries, like "honey, I love carrying your stuff but I am NOT a pack animal, stop bringing 4 bags of stuff for a two day trip" and until I could do that in a loving, non confrontational way, I could NOT have a healthy and happy relationship. What I used to do is attack her for bringing so much stuff, which was the symptom but not the cause of my getting angry. So, the OP blames him for "abandoning" her. In reality, they are both probably unconscious of what they each need and thus can't really figure out what the hell the other needs because they don't even know themselves. Why does he feel the need to just leave, is it some unconscious way of pushing her away, or it just cluelessness, we don't know. He may not be wise enough to know that leaving after a heavy scene could be traumatic to her, or not know enough about how to make it okay. She seems to me to have serious abandonment issues but has she really opened up about that to him in a way that invites him to help or does she attack him over it and push him away? Or are her actions designed to bring him closer (just cause things don't' work, doesn't mean we stop doing them, look at women who choose batterers!)? I STILL go through fits of self doubt, insecurity, jealousy, etc just as I did before. I TRY to see them as MY issues rather than the "fault" of my partner and calmly and warmly ask for her help, sometimes simply to ask for more attention, a change in behavior, or just an empathetic ear. I wish you the best of luck, but determination and self reflection will serve you better. (edited to use spell check!)

Prinsexx -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 12:17:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Emotionally though i can't deal with my own walking away. It sounds pathetic and screw ball when i say it <snip> it doesn't sound pathetic, it sounds like a slave mindset... thanks for this vhelle and it is it's all i have to give, it's at the core of me. a total devotion..... but think about it like this....when he didn't fulfill his end of the contract, whether it was written or verbal, but filling your emotional needs (and i mean needs, not wants), he negated the contract, therefore making it null and void but i think i am teaching Him how to do this, i thnk i have an ability ti slave that goes deeper than his willingmess or abilities to Master me or know or even care what my emotional needs are........and you now have nothing holding you to him and you are, in effect free to go anytime you are physically able to make the break from the relationship, ie. stopping contact - in person, by phone, by email, by smoke signals, etc. but you have to be willing to make that break, willing to break the cycle, because this wasn't the first time, this wasn't the first time with him, and this wasn't the first relationship you've had like this...it felt like the first time i gave everything and made myself a channel for his use and it felt the worse form of 'fuck-off geal-with-it-i-a,-gone.............. .you have to be willing to figure out what you're doing wrong when you're picking the men you're picking....and do something different...but you know all this...do a little role play with yourself, and pretend you are your own patient telling yourself this...now tell yourself what you should do to develop healthier relationships...if i was a patient of mine then it would simply be a case of asking her why she keeps choosing to submit to those she is trying to heal at the same time.....a sort of desperation also to be in a M/s relarionshup because she's craving for the hit and the one who can hit and hurt the most....... M/s and D/s are not inherently unhealthy, it is our choices of who we engage in M/s and D/s in with who are inherently unhealthy...figure out the pattern, and change it...it's emotional masochism which makes even the deal breaker part of the dynamic thanks chelle

Prinsexx -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 12:34:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress begging release for me was also a way to count back up from the slave mindset, each day i got stronger in myself and my intention, and he cut the cords a little more each time. your fellow does not seem as invested, but maybe that is inaccurate...has he told you why he wont release you? He did tell me that he would tell me of my release three times and that the final time would be in writing adn i agreed to that. he did not specify the megth of time it would take but i did relaise that it would give me some time to re-consider, to beg, to understand if indeed i had the intention to come out of it. This hasn't happened yet. I do not feel he has the same investment but by the nature of his assignments he may havemore investment thani do but is unwilling or unable, probably unable to express what that investment is. but thank you for telling me of the thirty day beg for release. I felt it and your tears.

ottRopesandKnots -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 12:35:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx to me the time will be both simply a week and also stretch forever..... but it was the method he told me, as ii could hearr the sat nav in the car as he told me and it had already been planned without a care in the world....DROPPED, AND YES I WOULD CALL IT EMOTIONAL ABANDONMENT like me being on an emotional bungy jump and someone pushing me over the edge and saying o by the way i just cut the rope...... Have you considered that perhaps your Dom is doing this to teach you something? Perhaps he is leaving you on your own hoping that you look down and realise that you can stand on your own two feet?

Prinsexx -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 12:39:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx no it hasn't been several it's actually been the same one... Whether they have been different relationships or different renditions of the same relationship is immaterial in my opinion. quote: and i haven;t been posting solely and only about mu relationships but have also i believed contributed and supported others anout their's.... I never said or implied that you had posted solely about your relationships. quote: m not offended by your sytematic approach and intelligence it's just that i don't do systematic thinng ver well...i am not an emotoonal engineer i am an emotional creative artist. Thanks for not being offended, though your uncharacteristic misspellings do indicate a hurried and emotional reply. Which is more than understandable given how direct my post was. Though, such a public exorcism does invite public comment of all type. quote: It was never my intention to present myself as an Oprah. You can always refuse the ticket anyway. Nor did I imply that you were Oprah. Moreso that the public examination of your relationship has been akin to what can commonly be seen on Oprah or Jerry. In that regard, Collarme is Oprah (or Jerry) and you are the guest. quote: I suspect you have absolutely no need of emotional discussion and no emotional crossroads in yor life and are therefore directionally fixed right now. I'm not sure what all that means, nor its relevance to your relationship. John But I do get the impression that you need to be right here and get the higher ground. It's a type of intellectual one-up-manhip that iisn't really helping me but might be helping you. Something got your interest in my OP that has acted as a vehicle for your righteousness yet again.

Prinsexx -> RE: is there a protocolfor leaving a Master (1/30/2008 12:45:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Figure out the crux of it before making decisions. The crux of it is that he wants me to be 'an asset'...His words.

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