Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Passive-aggressive submission


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Passive-aggressive submission Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 8:46:25 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
We often hear and read about submissives as brats or on the other extreme, submissives as doormats. When these sterotypes arise - it's often linked with those old favourites of whats 'true' and/or 'real'. Out of interest, I was wondering how many people have ever viewed or considered submissive personailties on these extremes as following a passive-aggressive personailty trait? Or whether anyone considers that all(in a genralistic view) submissives could be, or have the tendancy of passive-aggression?

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 10:58:59 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Angel,

Your thread caught my attention very quickly. I have to say passive-aggressive behaviour is one that I have witnessed many times, early in my life in my self and currently in many. I think that all humans can have moments of passive-aggresssiveness, especially when we feel desperate or powerless. Now there is a difference between having instances of passive-agressiveness and having a passive-agressive personality disorder. Like the difference between being down one day and being clinically depressed.

The current criteria for the passive-aggressive personality disorder as proposed by the Personality Disorders Work Group for the DSM-IV includes (source):

  • passive resistance to fulfilling social and occupational tasks through procrastination and inefficiency;
  • complaints of being misunderstood, unappreciated, and victimized by others;
  • sullenness, irritability, and argumentativeness in response to expectations;
  • angry and pessimistic attitudes toward a variety of events;
  • unreasonable criticism and scorn toward those in authority;
  • envy and resentment toward those who are more fortunate;
  • self-definition as luckless in life and an inclination to whine and grumble about being jinxed;
  • alternating behavior between hostile assertion of personal autonomy and dependent contrition (Millon & Radovanov, Livesley, ed., 1995, p. 321).


To answer your second question first:
quote:

Or whether anyone considers that all(in a genralistic view) submissives could be, or have the tendancy of passive-aggression?

I don't think these are submissive traits. In fact, I'll tell you that most of the ones I've gotten close to don't display even a quarter of these traits on a regular basis.

quote:

We often hear and read about submissives as brats or on the other extreme, submissives as doormats. When these sterotypes arise - it's often linked with those old favourites of whats 'true' and/or 'real'. Out of interest, I was wondering how many people have ever viewed or considered submissive personailties on these extremes as following a passive-aggressive personailty trait?


I had one sub who was very much a brat and demonstrated a lot of these issues. I don't think it had to do with the fact that she was submissive though. I think that she had a lot of issues to deal with. Yes she was a brat. Yes she tried to top from the bottom. It was much too much for me to handle because I'm not into that kind of struggle. So in this instance—and I'm basing myself on one case study which is certainly not empirical data—I would say, in my laywoman's diagnostic, that her brattiness was caused by passive-aggressiveness.

I’d like to add also that 2 of the most passive aggressive people that I have gotten close to have been Male Doms, one of the two fulfilling all of the criteria in the above list. (Edited to add: I am not implying that passive-aggressiveness is a male Dom trait. This has simply been my experience.)

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 9/4/2005 11:07:06 AM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 11:58:13 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

was wondering how many people have ever viewed or considered submissive personailties on these extremes as following a passive-aggressive personailty trait? Or whether anyone considers that all(in a genralistic view) submissives could be, or have the tendancy of passive-aggression?


I for one think you are on to something here. And it is why I think those type of individuals end up on all the "committees" of bdsm groups and how we come up with all the rules. It is their way of trying to control the social setting.

_____________________________

Master Jerry


(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 12:19:43 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45

quote:

was wondering how many people have ever viewed or considered submissive personailties on these extremes as following a passive-aggressive personailty trait? Or whether anyone considers that all(in a genralistic view) submissives could be, or have the tendancy of passive-aggression?


I for one think you are on to something here. And it is why I think those type of individuals end up on all the "committees" of bdsm groups and how we come up with all the rules. It is their way of trying to control the social setting.


Interesting take on this. Might I ask, is this your sociologist perspective?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 12:34:34 PM   
MrPost


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		I think that there are degrees of brattiness and doormattness. For instance, being bratty could be from a well timed, Oh so respectful quip aimed at the Dom/me in an up surd situation which brings a smile to both their faces. Or being bratty could be the “Will you just shut up and finish the laundry.” The first one if only done occasionally is, IMHO, acceptable even if it leads to a punishment, the second would be grounds for further investigation about the perceived relationship goals of the parties involved. The same can be said for the passive aspect. Occasional total surrender is a turn on, versus the sub that requires constant attention to complete their tasks or they turn all sulky.
Occasional bad behavior from the sub happens, most of us are only human, and given the dynamics of this type of relationship expected, it is part of the fun. But, when patterns of bad behavior continue, even after attempts to correct it, a Discussion is required between the partners and could lead to the termination of the relationship.
I hope I didn’t meander too far off the subject.
MrPost


_____________________________

I groan for the present sorrow. I groan for the sorrow to come. I groan questioning when there shall come a time when He shall ordain a limit to my suffering.
Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 2:49:22 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		I think all PEOPLE can have this passive-aggressive tendency at various times. How they handle that and how it comes across to others is part of their personality. I for one do not know anyone who is totally a doormat or totally a brat (just like I don't know anyone who is totally a Dom or a Master). Their environment, their personna and their training all play into it. I think however that many submissives have learned to USE these traits to their own ends.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 3:18:18 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		What everyone has said :)

I don't think PA behavior is a submissive trait, lord knows I've seen enough vanillas and dominants do it to think that.

But it certainly does occur often with subs, more often with newbie subs, because they lack confidence in themselves and good communication skills- thus they fall back on passive aggressive behavior.

It will often take a sub a few hard knocks before she LEARNS to simply ask outright for what she wants. It's viewed as being forward, exposing, topping, and requires a sense of confidence in one's self and feeling that one should feel fine about asking for things. Not a very common attitude for new subs to have.

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 3:37:30 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I've seen a lot of submissives who are passive-aggressive personalities. IMO, they're passive-aggressive dominants, not passive-aggressive submissives. Of all the borderline personality traits passive-aggressives are the ones that totally drive me ape shit.

Edited to add that I don't think passive-aggressiveness is strictly a submissive trait. I've seen it in people in all lifestyle groups, genders and orientations.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 9/4/2005 3:40:07 PM >

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 3:38:12 PM   
nslut4whtmaster


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		What about the submissive who is just aggressive period? Where do they fall into the supposed role of being a submissive?

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 3:47:22 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

(just like I don't know anyone who is totally a Dom or a Master).


I have. His name is LRODANDMASTER. <swoons>

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 4:01:11 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nslut4whtmaster

What about the submissive who is just aggressive period? Where do they fall into the supposed role of being a submissive?


Where they passive first? I mean to identify as a submissive, one needs to at one point defer to another. They can then get aggressive later. I'm not sure I'm getting the whole picture from your question. In a nutshell,

  • Passive (deferential to others)
  • Passive/Aggressive (initial deference, followed by aggression)
  • Assertive (balance of your needs/rights with others')
  • Aggressive (no concern for needs/rights of others)


Here is a resource that I find explains aggressive, passive, passive/agressive and assertive behaviours well.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to nslut4whtmaster)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 8:51:53 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

I've seen a lot of submissives who are passive-aggressive personalities. IMO, they're passive-aggressive dominants, not passive-aggressive submissives. Of all the borderline personality traits passive-aggressives are the ones that totally drive me ape shit.

Edited to add that I don't think passive-aggressiveness is strictly a submissive trait. I've seen it in people in all lifestyle groups, genders and orientations.


If this above refers to Borderline Personality Disorder then please know that passive/agressive behavior is not one of the DSM-IV criteria or other commonly recognized traits of Borderline Personality Disorder.

On a related note: I do not consider myself passive-agressive but I am a dominant slave, a slave with a very dominant personality. I have never called myself a submissive. (actually I try not to lable anyone as a submisive as the word is not a noun. )

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 9:10:56 PM   
Tempestspet


Posts: 360
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline 		More and more I am just begining to think it's just a person thing. Not submissive, slave, dom, master....whatever. Like most aspects of this lifestyle....people try and say this means that... and if a person behaves this way, they must be that type.

I don't think so. I think that people are just the way they are. Irreguardless of being top bottom, sub, slave, dom, master, switch.

I think that sometimes people that practice wiitwd (did I get that right?) want to feel different, or special. We are just people, doing normal daily stuff. Relationships are still relationships, just....some have add stuff we do with them that make us happy. But it's not easier or harder, unless you have to make it that way.

Believe it or not, I had quite a bit of trouble dicovering that. I wanted to believe that we lived a sepearte lifestyle.... different from everyone else. But hey, dishes still need done, jobs still needed worked, bills paid, and relationships...no matter what kind....are still hard if you want it to work, and be long lasting.

Passive agressive people come in all shapes and sizes, doesn't matter what your kinks or beliefs are.

Tempest's pet
jennifer

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/4/2005 11:06:39 PM   
nslut4whtmaster


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Where they passive first? I mean to identify as a submissive, one needs to at one point defer to another. They can then get aggressive later. I'm not sure I'm getting the whole picture from your question. In a nutshell,


Yes, I would say that the person in question is more assertive than anything but as for being passive that is not in the cards. (I am speaking about myself here). I do not see myself as being passive at all and this has been noted before by other DOM/MMEs but yet I still consider myself submissve. I may not be explaining this to best of my abilities at this time but I do hope that this may give some clarity to my question as it relates to this thread. Thank you for the link.

ns

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/5/2005 12:16:40 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

how many people have ever viewed or considered submissive personailties on these extremes as following a passive-aggressive personailty trait? Or whether anyone considers that all(in a genralistic view) submissives could be, or have the tendancy of passive-aggression?
I've never viewed submissives this way, since I expect everyone to have a personality of his own, likes and dislikes.
However, I have encountered passive aggressive personalities, and while on occasion it's fun to coerce a bratty person into behaving (by whatever means), generally I find dealing with that to be a huge pain in my derriere, so would never stay with someone I felt was resisting. If we aren't compatible, I let it go, no power struggles for me thank you.
I haven't a problem with someone disliking something and respectfully asking for an alternative, but no tantrums, or other baby behavior allowed. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/5/2005 6:06:10 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

If this above refers to Borderline Personality Disorder then please know that passive/agressive behavior is not one of the DSM-IV criteria or other commonly recognized traits of Borderline Personality Disorder.



Thanks for clarifying that, Elegant. In this case by borderline I meant pushing the limits of what I will tolerate, not specifically referring to Borderline Personality Disorder (thought I know at least one of those, too, and I avoid her like nobody's business).

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/5/2005 9:29:14 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

If this above refers to Borderline Personality Disorder then please know that passive/agressive behavior is not one of the DSM-IV criteria or other commonly recognized traits of Borderline Personality Disorder.



Thanks for clarifying that, Elegant. In this case by borderline I meant pushing the limits of what I will tolerate, not specifically referring to Borderline Personality Disorder (thought I know at least one of those, too, and I avoid her like nobody's business).



ahhh...so THATS why you avoid me...grinning

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/5/2005 10:07:17 AM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for the links LA.
The information is so incredibly valuable to me at this point in my life.

GREAT thread Angel.

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/5/2005 10:09:55 AM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

On a related note: I do not consider myself passive-agressive but I am a dominant slave, a slave with a very dominant personality. I have never called myself a submissive. (actually I try not to lable anyone as a submisive as the word is not a noun. )


Would you mind elaborating Elegant?

thanks
~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Passive-aggressive submission - 9/5/2005 10:13:18 AM   
Raphael


Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nslut4whtmaster

quote:


Where they passive first? I mean to identify as a submissive, one needs to at one point defer to another. They can then get aggressive later. I'm not sure I'm getting the whole picture from your question. In a nutshell,


Yes, I would say that the person in question is more assertive than anything but as for being passive that is not in the cards. (I am speaking about myself here). I do not see myself as being passive at all and this has been noted before by other DOM/MMEs but yet I still consider myself submissve. I may not be explaining this to best of my abilities at this time but I do hope that this may give some clarity to my question as it relates to this thread. Thank you for the link.

ns


So what is it that makes you submissive then? A desire to be taken down?




(in reply to nslut4whtmaster)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Passive-aggressive submission Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.082