Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Bad for Personal Development?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Bad for Personal Development? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:02:18 AM   
Ryugen


Posts: 69
Status: offline 		Now here's where I ruffle a few feathers again. Not meaning to upset anyone, and I truely mean that. If this post agrivates you then I appologise, but I am posting this here because I think the CM community is a bunch of intelligent, thoughtful, and open minded people. Therefore I find it to be the best place for any questions intellectual or verging on the intellectual.

Myself and my mother had a talk yesterday about submission and what s-types get out of it. A bit of background for you all, she knows I'm into the lifestyle and identify as a Dom. She's heavily against it, but she always seems to come up with very good arguments about her point of view. Which makes defending my life choices very interesting, as I love intellectual debate. Now, I realise that what each s-type gets out of submitting to another is different, but there ae soem common things that cause them joy. Ultimately it's the very act of submitting to another and I guess the level of trust there-in. However, the things we discussed were more practical reasons for submission.

Such reasons we discussed were the abdication of responsibility (for both one's self, and ones actions), what kind of events lead to someone being involved in a BDSM lifestyle, a few different things different subs give up to their Tops, and some real-world situations where it might be desireable for even her to submit to a Master and have Him take charge instead. Despite our debate, I am still a firm believer that SSC BDSM is a legitimate lifestyle choice.

So I'll pose the conclusion of my debate with her to you, despite my arguments I couldn't quite win against her anyway. I guess her having over twice as many years as me makes her a sure winner anyway  Submitting to another or becoming responsible for another is ultimately stunting and detrimental to personal developement. I know, sad that I couldn't win the debate against her, but she's very good. Although in hindsight there are a few things I could have bought up in the debate, pity I don't have an equally powerful foresight.

I can understand how being involved in a BDSM lifestyle can be detrimental to personal development of those under the age of 30, as I'm told you don't really fully gain a sense of self until around that age (not told by her, I think I read it somewhere). I can also understand that it's important for someone to learn how to fend for themselves and be accountable for their own actions. Especially considering the fact that when a BDSM relationship falls apart, just like a vanilla relationship, all involved have to pick up the pieces and get on with their own lives. I do believe that in some circumstances people are left worse-off in the way of their own personal development in a BDSM relationship, although I think that would mainly be when it's a young couple which go to the point of the Master taking complete responsibility for their slave when niether of them has learned how to do such things as save for a rainy day, assessing risks, etc. All those basics people usually learn after highschool or during (and sometimes after) University.

I also think that the majority of people involved in SSC BDSM are smart, intelligent, openminded people. Ultimately I think these people have a better chance of surviving the fallout of a relationship breakup than those of the vanilla orientation. Although one has to take into account that there's a level of commitment beyond a simple vanilla relationship when we're talking about a BDSM lifestyle relationship. Having said that, I've also come across a lot of depressed s-types who have talked in their posts about their Master or Dom being the only one that prevents them from cutting themselves. Now that's worrying considering that some of those relationships may end. Where will that leave the sub? More depressed and without the lifeskills to cope with their depression on their own? Admittedly, getting through depression is a hell of a lot easier when you have people who care about you. However does submitting in a BDSM relationship prevent you from learning such things as how to deal with depression in productive ways?

I know a BDSM relationship can work, can be productive, constructive, educational, enlightening, fulfilling, and ultimately if their is a breakup then the ones involved can come out the other end with more useful lessons than they went into it with. However, that doesn't mean that it's the most common outcome from BDSM relationships.

So, if anyone has any thoughts, opinions, or useful ammunition for me to take as future debate material then I'd be very happy to hear it!


_____________________________

I live, and am learning.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:11:50 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		SSC BDSM is a lame cop out to make it 'acceptable'.
Being in any relationship does not absolve a person from personal responsibility.
People involved in BDSM are people in life.  Doesn't make them anymore responsible, reasonable, smart or openminded.
Your already whooped if you 'need' to explain and win over your mother.
You do not need to defend that which needs no defending.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:13:01 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		First face the fact that your mother is Dommeing you. Second your losing the debates because your sucking up to her.

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:18:12 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Many would argue that it is not detrimental to personal development,  but that it is personal development. I , personally, don't believe people choose this any more than they chose whether they are homo or heterosexual. I am going to assume your mother loves you. She may very well wish her baby was not, " wrong in the head". I think it depends on how it is developed, more that what is developed. Regular hetero-sexual development is bad....if it is with your uncle.

Jeff

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 1/31/2008 10:19:09 AM >

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:18:54 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Well, my counter to all this is that submissives and slaves don't give up personal responsibility, at least from my point of view. I don't care if I was commanded to do something, if I do it then I carry that responsibility. Which is why I will never say I am completely and utterly without limits - even though he would never order to do the things I wouldn't do, I still know there are orders I would disobey if given.

I don't buy the idea that all this is bad for personal development as general rule either. With Valyraen, I'm learning how to budget and we are figuring out the life skills that we will need in the future - the same as any "normal" couple in their early 20s. There is no "Don't worry your pretty head, I'll always be around to take care of it". I also don't think that subs and slaves who are left worse off are in any worse of a boat than a vanilla person who was dependent on their partner.

The idea of "Master being the only thing that keeps me from cutting myself" isn't troubling to me either. BDSM didn't corner the market on the cutters and there are vanilla cutters out there whose vanilla partners help keep them cutting. What would worry me about that is what would worry me about any situation - is their owner using their power responsibly and encouraging them to get whatever outside help they need, the same as I would expect a vanilla partner to do.

Plenty of people in this world suffer from depression and other mental issues. Of course there are going to be some interested in BDSM too.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:21:35 AM   
Ryugen


Posts: 69
Status: offline 		Heh, I knew I'd cop shit for posting this. Didn't know it was going to be so harsh from people.

the.dark; Might not need defending, but an ability to explain and debate is always useful.

Dnomyar; Make your own opinions as you wish, although I assure you that's not the case. My mother is a very dominant person all on her own, I'm not about to start a fight with her as I value harmony between people a great deal. Admittedly, while I could have been more aggressive in the debate, ultimately that would have been detrimental to my relationship with my mother. Some people value their parents ya'know


_____________________________

I live, and am learning.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:22:33 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Dude...if you think that was harsh..............LOL


Jeff

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:25:45 AM   
szobras


Posts: 435
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		Which makes defending my life choices very interesting
Personally, I find that defending my choices would be attempting to gain acceptance or convince another of my view.
 
abdication of responsibility (for both one's self, and ones actions), 
 Abdicating responsibility is a personal action, not exclusive to, caused by, nor enabled by BDSM itself in my opinion.

I can understand how being involved in a BDSM lifestyle can be detrimental to personal development of those under the age of 30, as I'm told you don't really fully gain a sense of self until around that age (not told by her, I think I read it somewhere). I can also understand that it's important for someone to learn how to fend for themselves and be accountable for their own actions. Especially considering the fact that when a BDSM relationship falls apart, just like a vanilla relationship, all involved have to pick up the pieces and get on with their own lives. I do believe that in some circumstances people are left worse-off in the way of their own personal development in a BDSM relationship, although I think that would mainly be when it's a young couple which go to the point of the Master taking complete responsibility for their slave when niether of them has learned how to do such things as save for a rainy day, assessing risks, etc. All those basics people usually learn after highschool or during (and sometimes after) University

The abdication of responsibility and accountability for ones self ,thier actions, and thier personal growth have to do with individuals, not the arena they manifest these things through.
Just a few of my thoughts

edited cause I hit send too soon,lol


< Message edited by szobras -- 1/31/2008 10:31:41 AM >

_____________________________

"Wisdom is what's left after we've run out of personal opinions."
~Cullen Hightower~

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:26:33 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		Does being a soldier in the army stunt your personal development? Being an underling under any type of command?
Why would a D/s relationship be any different than combining such a dynamic within one's personal life instead of just their professional. I was always under the impression discipline and order built character.

If you seperate all the 'weird kink' from BDSM and have simply a D/s couple who have normal vanilla sex, but interact as Dom and sub, does that change your mothers perspective? I hardly think kink has any bearing at all on one's growth as a person so long as the rest of their life is rolling along the right path. Your mother may be under the impression all 'subs' are doormats who can't think or act for themselves. Entirely untrue.

My biggest beef... a sub not being responsible is just a big steaming load of something unpleasent. Sure some subs don't take responsibility. So do a lot of 30 something kids living in their parents basement with no jobs. Some of us take full responsibility for everythign we do and say, havign a Dominant isn't some 'get out of consequence free' card. It just means you may have to pay over twice in consequences; Once to the world at large, and the second time to your dom if he has the good sense to thump you for being dumb.

As for debating with her period about it. It's like trying to tell the bird why walking is better than flying. Difference of perspective, different lifestyle. One persons values differ from anothers, and what some consider to be 'stunting' to others is a form of growth. I'm glad you can discuss such a topic so openly with your mother, but don't let a debate or discussion bend you out of shape. Some people are just unable to see view points drastically different than their own.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:33:37 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryugen

Such reasons we discussed were the abdication of responsibility (for both one's self, and ones actions),
[/font][/size]


I'm sorry but anyone whose motivation for submission is that above is living in a fantasy world. In my not humble opinion they also are not being submissive but being a burden and immature.

I don't find either of those qualities attractive in a person.

Have you given your mother "When Someone You Love is Kinky"? It's a pretty good book that you might want to look into. Written for the person who can't understand it but clearly is still loving the kinky in their lives.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:51:57 AM   
verysweet


Posts: 128
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

SSC BDSM is a lame cop out to make it 'acceptable'.
Being in any relationship does not absolve a person from personal responsibility.
People involved in BDSM are people in life.  Doesn't make them anymore responsible, reasonable, smart or openminded.
Your already whooped if you 'need' to explain and win over your mother.
You do not need to defend that which needs no defending.
 
the.dark.

 
Well said. 
 
On these boards and in the 4 others I read with regularity, I've noticed an inordinant amount of posts which wax on about how much more extraordinary relationships are when the participants practice BDSM or D/s or whatever we're calling it these days. Anything but "lifestyle", por favor. 
 
quote:

I know a BDSM relationship can work, can be productive, constructive, educational, enlightening, fulfilling, and ultimately if their is a breakup then the ones involved can come out the other end with more useful lessons than they went into it with. 


Isn't this something that we would all hope to get from any relationship?
 
 

_____________________________

Poetry in devotion.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:56:07 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryugen

Heh, I knew I'd cop shit for posting this. Didn't know it was going to be so harsh from people.

the.dark; Might not need defending, but an ability to explain and debate is always useful.

Dnomyar; Make your own opinions as you wish, although I assure you that's not the case. My mother is a very dominant person all on her own, I'm not about to start a fight with her as I value harmony between people a great deal. Admittedly, while I could have been more aggressive in the debate, ultimately that would have been detrimental to my relationship with my mother. Some people value their parents ya'know



Hon, I know you are very young and close to your mom. I am best friends with my mom and my dad, but there is not a chance in hell I would be discussing my sex life or BDSM with them. I think something called boundaries is a good thing when dealing with parents.

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:56:33 AM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Ryugen,

Just throwing this out there since i was in a 10 yr relationship (through my most formative yrs-the age 30 you speak of was one of those)....anyway....and i have been in a M/s relationship for 2 + years now.

Not all M/s relationships take responsibility away from the s type....on the contrary for some, such as the one that i am in.....Yes, he takes responsibility for the finances, and for pushing my growth etc but, i had already been the breadwinner for the previous relationship, so i know how to "wear the pants" in the family, bring home the bacon and all of that to a sickeningly large degree.

With my prior relationship we enabled eachother in sooo many ways....he bascially had to hold my hand through almost everything i did...and i did the same for him..Sooo....when i came to my Daddy i was scared to death of so much. my previous life made me the one in control of almost every facet and i was sooo buckling under the pressure.

Sooo since being with him i have HAD to be responsible and accountable in ways i hadn't. Responsible for my own growth in many ways, do it or don't do it, the choice has been left up to me, to be responsible for....i have been pushed to the edge of many of my fears and given the options to jump and face it head on, or to go back and hide because my Daddy won't hold my hand through it.

Now, i can do many things i couldn't...i can actually go to a mall all by myself and not toally panic and run and hide (this is MASSIVE for me, as i have severe crowd phobia* or did).....

i have skiied...something i would NEVER do, my UM and his father were both totally amazed that i actually did it.
i have learned to go to the biggest gym in the area all alone and not worry about people staring at me, assessing me, and being mean (all in my paranoid head)
i have tried to golf....eaten foods i never would've looked twice at...played publicly on many occasions (yikes to me before).....i have learned to decorate cakes and even sold some for a charity bakesale...i have learned to actually act, dress and BE a girl in all of my expossed vulnerability...i no longer have to hide behind a facade of a hard assed tomboy to keep the monsters at bay, or to show that i am "the man" of the house...i no longer wear the pants of the family...i embrace my womanhood and totally girly girl soul.
There are also many other, more spiritual lessons that i've learned but they are a bit deep to go into here (for me to condense enough and still make sense of them)

Sooo many things have changed....things that in my past, vanilla, relationship never ever would've happened.....Sooooo it isn't stricly D/s or M/s relationships that can stunt growth...vanilla ones can do it too....and sometimes, in a M/s relationship, if some of the responsibility and stressors are removed, what can emerge can be a wonderful, stronger version of what was there before.




_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:57:19 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Many would argue that it is not detrimental to personal development,  but that it is personal development. I , personally, don't believe people choose this any more than they chose whether they are homo or heterosexual. I am going to assume your mother loves you. She may very well wish her baby was not, " wrong in the head". I think it depends on how it is developed, more that what is developed. Regular hetero-sexual development is bad....if it is with your uncle.

Jeff



(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 10:58:00 AM   
velvetslave


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryugen

Such reasons we discussed were the abdication of responsibility (for both one's self, and ones actions),



Disclaimer: The following is my own opinion and viewpoint, as always YMMV.

i did not abdicate myself of responsibility when i entered in to this relationship.  As a grown wowan i am still fully accountable and responsible for my words, my actions, my health, etc.  What i did was to give Him control over the above. 

i also do not feel that being in this M/s relationship has stunted, or will stunt, my personal development.  If anything His guidance amd teachings have helped me to become a stronger, healthier, more self assured woman.

velvetslave

(in reply to Ryugen)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 11:03:48 AM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


Hon, I know you are very young and close to your mom. I am best friends with my mom and my dad, but there is not a chance in hell I would be discussing my sex life or BDSM with them. I think something called boundaries is a good thing when dealing with parents.


That really all depends on the parents and the relationship....i can be completely candid with my Mom on almost ANYTHING...she and i have talked that way forever, and it is part of our friendship,which we now are able to have since we are both adults and love, appreciate and admire one another. We have very few boundaries...i may not paint her a "pornographic" picture of things we do, but she knows about it, she knows that we do anal, that we go to swinger clubs and dungeons.....she knows that during my bday weekend that i shared his penis with another girl even......so it truly depends.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 11:06:44 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


Hon, I know you are very young and close to your mom. I am best friends with my mom and my dad, but there is not a chance in hell I would be discussing my sex life or BDSM with them. I think something called boundaries is a good thing when dealing with parents.


That really all depends on the parents and the relationship....i can be completely candid with my Mom on almost ANYTHING...she and i have talked that way forever, and it is part of our friendship,which we now are able to have since we are both adults and love, appreciate and admire one another. We have very few boundaries...i may not paint her a "pornographic" picture of things we do, but she knows about it, she knows that we do anal, that we go to swinger clubs and dungeons.....she knows that during my bday weekend that i shared his penis with another girl even......so it truly depends.



wow! nope, I can tell my mom anything..but would NEVER tell her things like that, OMG. That would just hurt her and there is no way I would ever do that on purpose. She is sad enough that I have not met Mr. Right!

(in reply to daddyncherry)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 11:23:07 AM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:



wow! nope, I can tell my mom anything..but would NEVER tell her things like that, OMG. That would just hurt her and there is no way I would ever do that on purpose. She is sad enough that I have not met Mr. Right!



Well see, that is kinda my point, and maybe i didn't make it right....but for your relationship with your mom, you know that it would hurt her to hear certain things....with my mom, it doesn't hurt her in the least...she even jokes that she has to live vicariously through me and she appreciates me for being unique, loving, stubborn and all of the other parts of me....cause that is our particular relationship.

Now, i wont say that there aren't some things that i don't tell her...there are certain things i have done in my life that would only hurt her if she knew...but those things that i mentioned above are not those things that will hurt her.

Also, i dont call her everytime that we have anal and say "Hey Mom guess what?" LOL...but she always knows when we are going out and always hopes that we have a good time and asks about it afterward.


Edited: cause i totally screwed up the quotes on my first attempt


< Message edited by daddyncherry -- 1/31/2008 11:25:26 AM >

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 11:40:52 AM   
Ryugen


Posts: 69
Status: offline 		Seems like progress is progress no matter what direction it's in ey? As always, everyone has their own view points and opinions. Thank you all for sharing them. I guess everyone really does take from a definition or term only what they want and give it meaning in their own right. Heh, makes me wonder at the use of a dictionary when to so many people the same word can mean something completely different.

_____________________________

I live, and am learning.

(in reply to daddyncherry)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Bad for Personal Development? - 1/31/2008 11:43:16 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I don't defend my choices anymore then I ask others to defend their choices to me.

With that said, I feel that any functional relationship is symbiotic.  My parents, being completely vanilla for all I know, abdocated responsibilities to each other.  My father was the bread winner and the bill payer and my mother provided comforts in the house.  I could be said (and has been by staunch feminists) that SAHMs and housewives are stifled in their personal growth.  I find that to be an individual choice, if a person feels comfortable where they are at they may choose to stagnate and not persue any more personal growth, in fact, I think that their are many head of households that can be accused of this.

But what is personal growth to your mother?  The skills needed to find jobs?  Being able to balance a check book or budgetting for a household?  Personal growth to me is diverse, it could be basic life skills or it could be continued education in an area of interest.  Most master basic life skills at a fairly young age and continued education can be achieved by anyone who desirs it.  m'Lord certianly hasn't stipulated that I stop learning and growing, in fact, I suspect he'd grow quite bored with me if I became a vacumm from this point forth.

Now, if mom is thinking that submissives are vacuous fluff-headed bimbos, she surely knows that while she might find those in this lifestyle to make her case, she will find more that are the exception to her percieved rule, but if she widens her study to the larger community she will find that there are as many of those who wish to be taken care of who don't participate in BDSM (Anna Nichole Smith pops in my mind readily). 

If anything, since slaves and submissives choose a path that is not condoned by the society we live in, I'd say that many have had more then their share of personal growth just to get to the point where they are at.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Bad for Personal Development? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109