RE: ouch- USA people hated

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celticlord2112 -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 8:09:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Howl, scream, moan, and groan all you wish, Damn you, Celtic! Take a number. There's at least six evangelicals and a double handful of diehard Democrats ahead of you.

meatcleaver -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 8:16:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AxilX Of the university rankings i found this site seemed to do the best at documenting thier ranking criteria. You can also go back and look at the rankings every year. http://www.arwu.org/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm Cambridge consistantly came in 2-5, Oxford seemed to come in 5-10, Harvard held the number 1 slot every year since the study started. This stufy was conducted in China by the way, so again, i like it because it can hardly be accused of american bias. Here are a couple others: Newsweek: http://www.eduers.com/University/rankings/top10intheworld2006-newsweek.html (supposedly newsweek did the top hundred, but all the other references were since gone, so i only have the top 10 here.) This was done in 2006 Webmetric: http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp. As for my comment on our military, i was demonstrating that most technological development takes place in the United States, military technology represents a large percentage of the goverment funded technological research, and thus is relevant to that point. As to my assertion of having the best doctors, it goes hand in hand with having the best schools. Doctors here recieve better training, and yes, have access to better equipment as well, which again assists with training. The fact that most wealthy people across the globe flock to the United States when they have a medical crisis ought to be proof enough. The university rankings seem rather arbitary to me and I can't see how the criteria could stand up to serious scrutiny. No doubt top US universities perform well because they are the richest and attract some of the best brains from all over the world but I can't see Germany's best university coming in at 53 being correct. These rankings seem to be ranked on the English language based courses. Totally meaningless to a German or Frenchman studying in their own language. The reason I reason I have made that observation is that universities from small European countries which teach many courses in English, get much higher rankings that universities from large none English speaking countries which don't have many courses in English. If that is true, posting these rankings doesn't prove your point at all, even if one accepts the criteria to be credible. You military might have the best technology but is it enough to win a war? You haven't won in Iraq, you never won in Vietnam, you didn't defeat the North Koreans. Wasting money on hi-technological weapons while many of your countrymen don't have health cover, is not a sign of intelligence. As for you having the best doctors, one could argue all day about that but what can be said, is that American healthcare is not as good as the healhcare in other developed countries. Apart from it costing between 60-100% more expensive than many European healhcare systems, your health statistics are far worse. You are not getting value for money and if your doctors are the so-called best, they aren't performing like the best. Maybe its their greed and ideological adherence to the free market that prevents them from performing.

Lucylastic -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 11:05:06 AM)
I wonder how many mr joe public american actually get to see one of those "best " doctors....at least 36 milllion dont, no matter if they need to or not. Thats where the system will always be wrong to me. But thats just my two cents and yes I got to see a oxbridge consultant often during my childhood, all thru the NHS, altho I dont know what its like now. Lucy

RealityLicks -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 11:31:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Take a number. There's at least six evangelicals and a double handful of diehard ... waffle, waffle... blah blah... Quite. So to recap: Each year about $50bn flows from the rich countries to the poor in foreign aid ... while $200bn flows from the poor countries to the rich. No rich country comes out of this particularly well but the worst is the US because it offers 90% "tied aid" that must be spent in America - which means that countries cannot trade freely. Typically US "aid" will entail compelling a poor country to take cheap US rice or grain, produced at subsidy. It floods the market, putting local farmers out of business. Refusal can lead to the curtailment of more essential aid - a Faustian bargain for the developing country. For every dollar the US puts into the World Bank, it gets two dollars back. Hence Bush's desire for a neo-con to run it. Tables of charitable giving are misleading when they combine donations to genuine NGO's in the developing world with those to televangelists. The single biggest flow of funds into the poor countries comes from personal remittances made by foreign nationals, sending money home to family. At no stage have I indicated that I agree with or support foreign aid. I personally consider that charitable donations are a matter for one's individual conscience and find it crass that anyone would brag about his own (imagined) generosity.

badprofessor -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 12:58:24 PM)
[deleted by author]

celticlord2112 -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 1:28:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks At no stage have I indicated that I agree with or support foreign aid. I personally consider that charitable donations are a matter for one's individual conscience and find it crass that anyone would brag about his own (imagined) generosity. In other words, the numbers don't support your US-is-evil thesis, so I as an American am even more evil for using them to counter your rhetoric. Would I appear less evil if I offered you some Edam to accompany your whine?

Alumbrado -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 4:32:43 PM)
quote: No rich country comes out of this particularly well but the worst is the US because it offers 90% "tied aid" that must be spent in America - which means that countries cannot trade freely. It is pretty well known that many countries 'tie' their economic development monies in that manner... but you are claiming that this is also the case with the US for its disaster and emergency relief... Where is the link to a reliable reference for the 'US ties 90% of all aid notion'? I would certainly want to know if we were sending our rescue people over to earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. with such strings attached to the neccesities of life like food, water, first aid and so forth.

Tantriqu -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 5:09:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AxilX Somthing else i find especially strange is that a major critism of americans in this thread is thier alleged lack of education, when most of the most prestiegious universities are located in the United States. I've searched and searched and cannot find a listing of the top 10 worldwide universities where eight of them are not located in the US (Oxford and Cambridge generally make it in somewhere) The best doctors are trained in the United States, most of the worlds pharmacutical advancement is reasearched and funded here. We have the most techologically advanced military, we fund and develeop most significant advancement in computer science both on a corporate and individual level. An uneducated United States is a myth. Remember, unDEReducated. Der. Not 'uneducated', just that more can be done. [See the thread above re: hypersensitivity to criticism as well as unDEReducated.] One of the great things about Canadian universities, like Oxford and Cambridge are now, is that they're state-funded, meaning, 90% of tuition fees are deducted right off the top even before any scholarships or bursaries. Nothing to do with your pappy's pappy's pappy [i.e., Bush legacy]. There are no 'black colleges'; everyone can go everywhere. Imagine if Harvard and Yale only let in the qualified! Imagine if people didn't have to beggar themselves getting their kids into a good university! Canadian medical school grades are better than yours because they start with better undergraduates. you'd have an even higher literacy rate, more scientists, more money if you put a tiny percentage of your squandered defense budget into education. Shouldn't a good nation make that a priority? I remember nasty little 'camps' of 'people' in university saying giving money to poor nations or foster kids causes more trouble. For shame. I'm not going to give money to a druggie on the street corner, either, but the letters I get from my foster kids in 3rd world countries thanking me because their hut has a concrete floor now or they bought a nanny goat and have milk for the first time? Priceless. Somewhere along the line you had an ancestor who had a handout, whether it was a crust of bread or sneaking them onto a ship, so remember now although you're the product of privilege, you are here because someone was charitable. Talk libertarian politics after you've volunteered in a nursing home and changed adult diapers for a year, or seen what a few dollars can do in subSaharan Africa. As for your relying on spellcheck, you just lost your argument. 'prestigious' btw. And, irony alert, 'intelligent'. Der.

Alumbrado -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/4/2008 7:49:41 PM)
quote: There are no 'black colleges'; everyone can go everywhere. Imagine if Harvard and Yale only let in the qualified! Imagine if people didn't have to beggar themselves getting their kids into a good university! Canadian medical school grades are better than yours because they start with better undergraduates. Nice try..if only the US graduate programs weren't also well attended by many of the best students from the rest of the world. And I'm puzzled by your mentioning of black schools and poor qualifications in the same breath as it were, could you explain the connection? I hope you aren't suggesting that everyone who goes to an HBCU is forced to do so.

meatcleaver -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/5/2008 1:01:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: There are no 'black colleges'; everyone can go everywhere. Imagine if Harvard and Yale only let in the qualified! Imagine if people didn't have to beggar themselves getting their kids into a good university! Canadian medical school grades are better than yours because they start with better undergraduates. Nice try..if only the US graduate programs weren't also well attended by many of the best students from the rest of the world. And I'm puzzled by your mentioning of black schools and poor qualifications in the same breath as it were, could you explain the connection? I hope you aren't suggesting that everyone who goes to an HBCU is forced to do so. Underfunding. While the Ivy League universities in America attract the rich for their money so they can give scholarships to the brightest, other universities don't have that luxury. As for black universities, the fact that blacks feel the need to have their own universities says volumnes about what they think their chances are in getting a fair crack of the whip in white dominated universities.

Real0ne -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/5/2008 7:09:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 If you wish to debate the generosity at the individual level (i.e., charitable giving), we must examine the proper data. Consider this table from 2003 ranking charitable giving per capita per nation: COUNTRY................GIVING Spain..........................122 Belgium.......................120 U.K.............................117 Netherlands.................110 Ireland........................100 France..........................74 Finland..........................70 Austria..........................50 Germany.......................39 Hungary........................32 Slovakia........................25 Czech Republic...............25 Romania.........................5 U.S..............................278 By these per capita standards, America remains the world leader in generosity. Given up on using foreign aid as an exemplar of American generosity, then? The charity figures quoted by you above will include donations to churches. And of course in America, churches are really businesses. Televangelism, as American as donut burgers, where if you call this number NOW you can redeem your soul AND learn to speak in tongues. You still lose. Per capita or as a nation, the empirical data demonstrates the US gives more than others. You have yet to offer up a shred of evidence to refute any of the data I have posted here. Howl, scream, moan, and groan all you wish, you cannot make data be anything other than what it is. Your self-righteous anger continues to invalidate your rhetoric. Lose the emotion and use logic instead. Then you will have a chance at constructing effective arguments about the sins of the United States. Of course, you really do know you are talking nonsense, since most USA aid is about American pushing foreign policy, it has nothing to do with being generous and everything to do with being self serving. Being generous in my book is giving without expecting anything in return, that is not at all how ypou can describe Ameriucan aid. zactly! Terms like bribery buying them off are all quite fitting. The federal gov buys off the states here in the us through entitlements as well other nations. I cant imagine people think we just "give it away" as a charity. No country does except in extreme cases.

snapdragon9 -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/5/2008 8:01:16 AM)
I don't blame their anti-american attitude. Our admistration has very few things on its mind besides dominance and money. You all know countless examples of this. I think the clash said it best "the killers in America work seven days a week." I'm so bored with the U.S.A.

Alumbrado -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/5/2008 11:05:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: snapdragon9 I don't blame their anti-american attitude. Our admistration has very few things on its mind besides dominance and money. You all know countless examples of this. Totally agree. So it is with other administrations, who have their own list of atrocities...which makes singling out one country seem illogical, if the concern is over the corruption and greed, instead of the nationality. quote: I think the clash said it best "the killers in America work seven days a week." I'm so bored with the U.S.A. I like 'Know Your Rights'...[:D]

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