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Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 5:49:57 PM   
popeye1250


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I like Hillary's *Universal* healthcare plan better than Obamas'.
Obama's answers to questions are far too complicated.
Hillary is more "passionate" than Obama in her answers.

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 5:55:12 PM   
ravennfyre


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I'm watching...

I have a question/thought about immigration...please feel free to pick it apart...

Puerto Rico is a US territory. Why doesn't the US make Mexico a US territory? Make it an extension of California or something like that... I'm in Michigan, and we have a HUGE influx of Mexicans (illegal, I'm assuming) that work the fruit farms...It's hard enough finding a job for ME, and they're taking them because they work cheaper and are a minority...Please correct me if I've misspoken anywhere...


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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:03:27 PM   
popeye1250


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LOL, ah,...why would we "want to?"
It's a third world country! It would *cost* us money.
Now Switzerland or another country like that I could see doing that.
Here's the deal, if you're going to take over a country like that you want one with *money* not one *without* money and a lot of poor people.
Wow, they just flashed to Chealsea Clinton, she is not an attractive woman.

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:05:55 PM   
ravennfyre


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I saw that, too.... sorta cro-magnon looking with better hair...

You've given me a point to ponder... thank you!

if Switzerland DID do that, would they come in and suck them out of the US? Please oh please?

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:17:05 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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I watched part of it.  By the way, that bullshit Hillary said about getting healthcare for poor rural people in Arkansas is bullshit!  She never did that.  Huckabee was the first person to get health insurance for UM's here.  Hillary is such a fucking liar.

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:18:22 PM   
popeye1250


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Wow, Obama is *SO FAR* to the left of Hillary he makes her sound "conservative!"

Yeah, Chealsea looks like the old man and not in a good way either.

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:25:13 PM   
TheHeretic


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         I watched maybe 15 minutes worth to get a feel for how they are visually presenting themselves, now I'm just half-listening to it from the TV downstairs.  Very civil.

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:25:53 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

I'm in Michigan, and we have a HUGE influx of Mexicans (illegal, I'm assuming) that work the fruit farms...


Please know for sure before making that assumption.
I lived in southern Illinois for many years and I know for a fact that most of the migrant workers were here legally, doing work that no one else wanted to touch, because it was long hours and lousy pay.


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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:28:35 PM   
subrob1967


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Hitlery tried "universal healthcare" in1994, and it BOMBED big time. Her "new plan" is a rehash of her old one, only even more expensive.

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 6:37:29 PM   
Sanity


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Wow, makes a person wonder why they don't give out raises...


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

I'm in Michigan, and we have a HUGE influx of Mexicans (illegal, I'm assuming) that work the fruit farms...


Please know for sure before making that assumption.
I lived in southern Illinois for many years and I know for a fact that most of the migrant workers were here legally, doing work that no one else wanted to touch, because it was long hours and lousy pay.



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 7:08:12 PM   
popeye1250


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That "endorsement" from *Ted Kennedy* is going to kill Obama.


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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 8:02:23 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravennfyre

I'm watching...

I have a question/thought about immigration...please feel free to pick it apart...

Puerto Rico is a US territory. Why doesn't the US make Mexico a US territory? Make it an extension of California or something like that... I'm in Michigan, and we have a HUGE influx of Mexicans (illegal, I'm assuming) that work the fruit farms...It's hard enough finding a job for ME, and they're taking them because they work cheaper and are a minority...Please correct me if I've misspoken anywhere...




See.. that is what I love about fellow Americans.. *sighs and takes in a deep breath to keep from screaming*

To assume some one is an "illegal" simply because of thier Hispanic origin, and profession shows how deeply ingrained our politcans and media has put fear of immigrants, and hispanics in general.

To illustrate how ingrained it is... I was at a walmart in line behind an hispanic family, the little girl brushed past me, and my son~ pushing him a bit. She was about 7. I looked at her and said Excuse you, and left it alone. My son.. who should damn well know better said " Why did you bother? she prob. doesnt even speak english" He is 10. All of this bull shit our govt has fed us is even filtering down to our kids. My other half is Cuban. You know that shit sure as hell did not come from my home. I have never been so pissed off at my son in my life as I was at that moment. When the little girl came back, I made him appologize to her, and her family for not being understanding. She appologized to him for not saying "excuse me". Her family spoke English as well as I do. We had a *huge* discussion when we got out into the car.

As far as jobs go and the "illegals" stealing jobs from you and other hard working Americans... Show me an American who is willing to pick tomatos, be a maid, do heavy labor, basicaly do the shittiest jobs for the lowest pay in our country.

If you want your jobs back go after the govt for thier trade agreements, giving tax *breaks* to companies who outsource our jobs ( the ones we actualy are willing to do ) and about devaluing our dollar so that it is now so weak we can no longer compete.

It is easy to deflect the facts of the govt screwing over the American public esp. the middle class by supporting the Large Corporations and lining the politicans pockets for doing so for ages. They had blindsided the American Public by demonizing groups of people who are "different" and thereby outsiders and easy to hate, disenfranchise and be rid of.

Get people good and rilled up about these issues and they wont notice how bad things really are, and who's hand is in the cookie jar.

Did any body else wonder why in the last 8 years the Gays, and Hispanics have become the "great evils" ?

It does how ever show how easy people fall into prejudices.

I am not picking on you... many  unfortuantly feel the same way you do ~but your view does show exactly how well thier plan worked.

Gwyn

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 8:07:26 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I like Hillary's *Universal* healthcare plan better than Obamas'.
Obama's answers to questions are far too complicated.
Hillary is more "passionate" than Obama in her answers.


Damn I missed it!
I have not had the t.v. OR the computer on all evening.


I am sure I will be able to catch the 1,000,000 highlights of the "show".


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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 8:13:05 PM   
MzMia


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Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Wow, Obama is *SO FAR* to the left of Hillary he makes her sound "conservative!"

Yeah, Chealsea looks like the old man and not in a good way either.


Popeye! put down the damn whiskey!
Chelsea is a cutie pie.

A little doll baby, leave my Chelsea alone!
Chelsea is hot, dude.

YouTube - Chelsea Clinton is Hot

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/31/2008 8:24:03 PM >


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 8:38:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravennfyre

I'm watching...

I have a question/thought about immigration...please feel free to pick it apart...

Puerto Rico is a US territory. Why doesn't the US make Mexico a US territory? Make it an extension of California or something like that... I'm in Michigan, and we have a HUGE influx of Mexicans (illegal, I'm assuming) that work the fruit farms...It's hard enough finding a job for ME, and they're taking them because they work cheaper and are a minority...Please correct me if I've misspoken anywhere...




See.. that is what I love about fellow Americans.. *sighs and takes in a deep breath to keep from screaming*

To assume some one is an "illegal" simply because of thier Hispanic origin, and profession shows how deeply ingrained our politcans and media has put fear of immigrants, and hispanics in general.

To illustrate how ingrained it is... I was at a walmart in line behind an hispanic family, the little girl brushed past me, and my son~ pushing him a bit. She was about 7. I looked at her and said Excuse you, and left it alone. My son.. who should damn well know better said " Why did you bother? she prob. doesnt even speak english" He is 10. All of this bull shit our govt has fed us is even filtering down to our kids. My other half is Cuban. You know that shit sure as hell did not come from my home. I have never been so pissed off at my son in my life as I was at that moment. When the little girl came back, I made him appologize to her, and her family for not being understanding. She appologized to him for not saying "excuse me". Her family spoke English as well as I do. We had a *huge* discussion when we got out into the car.

As far as jobs go and the "illegals" stealing jobs from you and other hard working Americans... Show me an American who is willing to pick tomatos, be a maid, do heavy labor, basicaly do the shittiest jobs for the lowest pay in our country.

If you want your jobs back go after the govt for thier trade agreements, giving tax *breaks* to companies who outsource our jobs ( the ones we actualy are willing to do ) and about devaluing our dollar so that it is now so weak we can no longer compete.

It is easy to deflect the facts of the govt screwing over the American public esp. the middle class by supporting the Large Corporations and lining the politicans pockets for doing so for ages. They had blindsided the American Public by demonizing groups of people who are "different" and thereby outsiders and easy to hate, disenfranchise and be rid of.

Get people good and rilled up about these issues and they wont notice how bad things really are, and who's hand is in the cookie jar.

Did any body else wonder why in the last 8 years the Gays, and Hispanics have become the "great evils" ?

It does how ever show how easy people fall into prejudices.

I am not picking on you... many  unfortuantly feel the same way you do ~but your view does show exactly how well thier plan worked.

Gwyn

Gwyn, and that's another thing that I don't like about my fellow Americans; why do they think that *any* job in this country should be "lousey paying?"
We don't respect labor in this country anymore?
Hell I'd pick tomatoes "off the books" for a decent wage!
We can't expect people to work for $8 an hour anymore these days! That's the problem.
I have a sister who's an x-ray teck in New Hampshire and makes $31.50 per hour.
That may sound like good pay to some but she told me they should be up to $40 an hour by now. No raises or cost of living allowances for the last three years.
I have a brother who's a Lt. on a Boston area Fire Dept who makes about $95k base salary plus another $30k or so on O.T.'s and details.
His Captain makes $120k.
They haven't had a new Union Contract in almost 4 years and he said they're getting close to picketing city hall.
Anyone who needs tomatoe pickers sure doesn't care about COLAs or raises or decent pay.
And as for "accents" anytime I heard an Irish accent in Boston I just automatically assumed they were illegal because so many of them are.
You have to go with the odds!
You're right about getting rid of those phoney "trade deals" that are nothing but "outsourcing" deals in disguise.
"Hard Labor" jobs used to be construction jobs and they payed very well.
I think that there's some type of predjudice against paying American Citizens a good wage!
If you take out an ad for laborers at $25 per hour and benefits you won't have any trouble getting help and you won't have to hire illegal aliens "off the books."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/31/2008 8:45:55 PM >


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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 9:20:26 PM   
MzMia


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Popeye you are right on the money!
This is the main issue I have with hiring people that are not here

legally in America.
 
To me it is similar to outsourcing, in fact let me start a thread on it!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 9:22:24 PM   
Gwynvyd


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I agree with ya... a huge reason why we do not pay people decent wages for those hard working jobs and picking tomatos and the like is Corporate greed. If the CEO's and Corp. Management can get by with paying employees as little as possible ( human resources are usualy the largest operating cost in any business) then they can take the big bonuses and pay outs for saving the company money for themselves. Even if they screw up and leave the company they get big money. Much more money then they should ever be worth getting in my eyes.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/countrywides-mozilo-give-up-375/story.aspx?guid=%7B2BBAD470-30F3-45C8-BC2B-06B2162DF955%7D

He is not being held accountable for what happened to his company... he is getting a huge amount of money to walk out the door and be done with it. There will be an inquiry.. but when you have more money then God.. guess how that is going to fair. But then.. they might make him a scapegoat for the whole situation.... apease the public. it could go one of 2 ways.

Because of the Sub-prime leanding crisis all American Banks have to take on a chunk of that debit. So this really chafes my ass. Hell his money would put a good sized dent in it.

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10498541

We wouldnt be in this shit hole of a ressesion if it were not for the greed starting from the top and working it's way down. They should have never lent money to people who could not pay, on terms they couldnt possibly meet. All of these subprime lenders and companies like Citibank who lend money and make it even harder to pay it back to people who can not do so not only tipped the scales but smashed them.

No regulations were in place to stop them, and every one in govt turned a blind eye.
Econimists every where worth thier salt were scared as hell of what would happen when the bubble burst. There was no question of if.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 9:27:37 PM   
Zensee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravennfyre

Why doesn't the US make Mexico a US territory? Make it an extension of California or something like that...



Because it's a sovereign country? (Did I get it right?)

And making it part of California? Can you say "salt their wounds"? Why not attach it to Texas? Ouch!


Z.

< Message edited by Zensee -- 1/31/2008 9:29:21 PM >


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RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 9:42:09 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

I agree with ya... a huge reason why we do not pay people decent wages for those hard working jobs and picking tomatos and the like is Corporate greed. If the CEO's and Corp. Management can get by with paying employees as little as possible ( human resources are usualy the largest operating cost in any business) then they can take the big bonuses and pay outs for saving the company money for themselves. Even if they screw up and leave the company they get big money. Much more money then they should ever be worth getting in my eyes.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/countrywides-mozilo-give-up-375/story.aspx?guid=%7B2BBAD470-30F3-45C8-BC2B-06B2162DF955%7D

He is not being held accountable for what happened to his company... he is getting a huge amount of money to walk out the door and be done with it. There will be an inquiry.. but when you have more money then God.. guess how that is going to fair. But then.. they might make him a scapegoat for the whole situation.... apease the public. it could go one of 2 ways.

Because of the Sub-prime leanding crisis all American Banks have to take on a chunk of that debit. So this really chafes my ass. Hell his money would put a good sized dent in it.

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10498541

We wouldnt be in this shit hole of a ressesion if it were not for the greed starting from the top and working it's way down. They should have never lent money to people who could not pay, on terms they couldnt possibly meet. All of these subprime lenders and companies like Citibank who lend money and make it even harder to pay it back to people who can not do so not only tipped the scales but smashed them.

No regulations were in place to stop them, and every one in govt turned a blind eye.
Econimists every where worth thier salt were scared as hell of what would happen when the bubble burst. There was no question of if.

Gwyn


You are BINGO, dead on here.
People are also turning a blind eye now on those willing to work for peanuts.
wink, wink, wink
Maybe soon we will have people here that are willing to do piece work like in the sweat
shops in China!
Or maybe $50 a day and they can work 12-14 hours, and live in a tent city behind the

building!
 
The sky is the limit here.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/31/2008 9:45:56 PM >


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Watching the Democratic Debate? - 1/31/2008 10:00:07 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravennfyre

Why doesn't the US make Mexico a US territory? Make it an extension of California or something like that...



Because it's a sovereign country? (Did I get it right?)

And making it part of California? Can you say "salt their wounds"? Why not attach it to Texas? Ouch!


Z.


those who do not know thier history are doomed to repeat it.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 20
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