quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Wow, thanks for sharing slaveluci!
I don't think I will ever forget what you wrote.
Being paid in "scrips", I plan to research "scrips".
You have opened my eyes with this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Wow, thanks for sharing slaveluci!
I don't think I will ever forget what you wrote.
Being paid in "scrips", I plan to research "scrips".
You have opened my eyes with this.

Ahh, if you're unfamiliar with the history of the company town, it's well worth the education. Need i mention that those who are not aware of the past are doomed to repeat it? i think not.

Thing is... nothing happens in a vacuum. Close a plant, people lose their livelihood. They stop buying products, and that forces other doors to close, eliminating more incomes, contracting expenditures further. Meanwhile, you've found people who will do the work for a bowl of rice a day.... but are you willing to barter your products for a half-bowl of rice? If not, your strategy isn't necessarily sustainable...

But, if you're at the top of the org chart, you're making "fuck you" money in a single year, so what the hell do you care?

Personally, i'm thinking about getting into the bodyguard business... because the "haves" are gonna start needing 'em soon, i'm tellin' ya...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
See, personally, I'm for amnesty ........edited
 
....it would also mean that Americans who struggle hardest to find jobs would no longer be forced to compete with illegals for their jobs. 

quote:

Probably contributing most to the program's ultimate termination was the sense that it was preventing normal interplay of labor supply and demand, infringing on employment opportunities for U.S. resident workers, and dragging down their wage levels.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


What evidence do you have that illegal workers are driving wages down?

What I would like to see is the the USA set minimum wage standards for any goods imported into our country. I'm much more alarmed by slave-wage working conditions abroad than I am here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

[begin rant]
 
I think the biggest problem I have with all the arguments about ""a living wage" is that I am continually shocked at the amount of money people make and then complain about how they can't get along. 
I keep wondering how the hell I do it on a net income of less than $24000 per year.  And I don't live badly, folks! 
I have a paid off car that I do My best to maintain.  I am renting a reasonable 3 bedroom home in a nice community, I have car insurance and life insurance and health insurance.  I eat well for about $300 per month (family of 2) and that includes a few fast food runs and the occasional Starbucks treat.  It also includes My paper goods and cleaning products.  I pay My electric bill (a time of use plan saves Me a bit and I work at that), as well as My water bill, private garbage collection and a separate santitation district quarterly bill.  I have a phone, a cell phone, My daughter's cell phone, a separate fax line, and high speed internet.  I subscribe to Direct TV (no extras like HBO or Showtime and I do not bother with pay-per-view), with 135 channels (several in Espanol).  I paid cash for My lovely TV on sale for $180 2 years ago.  It is only 27 inches and it is housed in a beautiful cabinet I got at a Hotel liquidator for $99.  We have three bedrooms, all furnished, nicely I would say.  My beautiful and comfortable sectional came from Goodwill for $150.  I have a computer and a nice curved desk it sits upon.  I have dishes, and pots and pans, and silverware and even some china and crystal.  I have a washer and dyrer, a refigerator/freezer, and stove and rangetop and a dishwasher.   I enjoy My fireplace on cold winter nights, and I have a tv in My bedroom (13" with a DVD and VCR.  So does My daughter.  The guest room is ready for a guest with bed, dresser and night table.  I have clothes to wear and My daughter'ss closet is full.  She helps with the rent on a flat basis while she also works full time as a pre-school teacher earning less than $10 per hour.  She also babysits, even though she is almost 22 years old and she is a working actress on the weekends.  She continues to save money and attend college and thus far she is debt free as to education.  She is also considered bi-lingual at this point in her education.  She makes a car payment each month and pays for her own gas, clothing and car insurance along with her school tuition and books/fees...kind of a pay as you go plan.  She has friends and a boyfriend.  She goes out and she does not feel a pinch.  Then again, she does not pay $60 or $30 or even $15 for a blouse, or a pair of jeans or a new purse.  She is generous to a fault and I am  proud of her achievement and her responsible attitude toward life and others. 
I raised two daughers as a single parent for many years on less than what I have now.  They did not lack for what they needed and they are both fine and productive members of society.  In fact, I would say they have more resiliency than most of the older folks I know.  And they don't put their hand out.  They earn it or figure out a way to do without.  Yes, I am proud of them.
Yet I read about people who are upset because there is no union contract and they should be making $40 per hour or more by now.  They are suffering along on $31.50 per hour.  Or $120K per year is a pitiful income and it is time for someone to storm the steps of the boss man and right this terrible injustice.  (another thread, and I do not mean to pick on anyone.)  I listened to a man on a local talk radio show a few nights ago complaining that he is being left out of the new stimulas plan since he and his wife earn in excess of $150K per year.  All I could think was,"well what the hell do you care about the lousy $600?"
If I can do it, I think a lot of others can do it also.  I see American people who complain about the wasteful spending of our government, but they can't seem to manage their own budgets.  Consume at all costs.  God help you of you don't have the new plasma tv and you can't trade your car in every other year and pay for those three vacations you have to take because your UM's now get a fall break in additon to the spring break and the summer break.  I no longer want to hear the crying about the fact that you can't make your mortgage payment now that the low payment went away and you took every bit of false equity out of the property you could already.  I have listened to this from more people than I can tell you, and I am not talkng about a message board.  I am talking about daily life and all the moaning and groaning.  Gimme Gimme Gimme...It's not fair! 
Grow up!   
Forgive Me if I am out of sympathy.
 
[/end rant]

quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus

Anywhere from 22-36k is the breakpoint of the living wage, depending on the area of the country you live in.  Fall below that point in income, and you will either need a second job or find someone else to provide a second income.  36.5 million people live well below that breakpoint below the poverty threshold; toss in the in-betweens and I would not be suprised if the total is over 100 million.

I do agree with you that anyone making over 50k single or 90k married (or coupled or whatever) has got about diddly to complain about (at least from my age perspective and group, there might be some additional costs I'm not aware of to being older). 

A few things though, I'd like to point out. 85+% of people do not own thier cars, right about the time they get it paid off they yearly maintenance increase to the point where selling and buying a new/used one makes more financial sense ( I have no idea what model or year you drive, some cars go years past being paid off before its too expensive to fix them). That tacks on about 4-6k a year they need.  Also, living on a single income tacks on about 30-40% percent more that they need (going by your post, I suspect your daughter is a contributor to the household income; 2 income homes need less per income in order to be a living wage).

By making an educated guess that your income is 20-24, I would need to make 30-34 just to match your standard of living.  Actually, toss in student loan repayments, its more like 32-36k. My paticular degree field is electronics, you'll never get rich off of it, but by and large its considered a good paying job field.

My most likely starting yearly will be 22-24k after taxes in my area, and thats assuming a full 40 a week all year.  I'll most likely continue needing a either a second part-time job or mandatory overtime every week along with a roommate to share the bills with, right after graduating from college with an Associates degree in a good paying technical job field.  Hopefully, I'll get cost of living raises too (not a sure thing anymore, many companies do not ) just so I can stay at that level.

Example...I had to call Direct TV because they billed Me $70 for a "service call".  That call was supposed to be at no charge and I was assureed of it.  It was their DVR equipment that was screwed up and I pay a fee every month for that.  Suddenly it was supposed to be My responsiiblity to make sure the DVR was okay or have some sort of maintenance insurance on the product.  I laughed at the CS rep.  I'm supposed to have a maintenance policy (another $5.99 per month) on their equipment?  In addition they tried to increase My contract for another 2 years (12/07 - 12/09) when My contract with them was actually up with them in Jan 08.  I asked for a supervisor.  About 2 minutes holding and, sadly,  no supervisor available.  More arguments and then I advised that I would be happy to wait for a supervisor for as long as it took.  Another 2 minutes holding and LO & BEHOLD!  She found the note that said I was not to be charged and she also verified that I did not have any extensions on My contract and I had no obligation to the company if I cancelled. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravennfyre


I just wanted to tell you that I absolutely LOVE your post on undermining American workers...I'm a single mom of two. I've been out of work since October, living on unemployment because I'm overqualified (and McDonald's isn't hiring until March). I've been making ends meet on $4.50 an hour when you break down my $190.00 per week unemployment check. That pays for my rent, utilities, cell phones and minutes, gas, insurance and car repairs, food, and weekly laundry. My landlord takes care of basic cable and water. I receive no child support because the FOC can't "find" him. Everything that's come through my door has cost me less than ten dollars. Televisions included. Everything I wear has come from consignment and thrift shops.My kids' clothing is purchased when it goes on sale. I sew. I bake my own bread. I do canning. I make my own jam.
I use coupons. I've even had to visit the local food pantry when things got really snug... I don't have credit cards. I'm a cash person. If I don't have the funds, we can't buy it. I don't borrow.
I'm saying constant prayers that I get this job I've interviewed for twice. Then I'll be making $8.00 an hour instead of $4.50. Will I spend the difference? Hardly. I've learned to live on considerably less than minimum wage, and I think I'll be able to continue for a while and save the difference in case this happens again down the road.

And you would be one of those exceptions to the rule I just wrote of and with circumstances beyond your control.  Unemployment isn't great but it's a good little net and I am glad you have it!  But you are also proof positive that it can be done when one needs to do it!  It's not the most pleasant thing in the world but it can be done.
You make an importnat point.  Wealth is actually measured (or should be) in terms of how long you can survive with no money coming in and maintain your style of living.  In some ways I could be wealthier than other who make 10 times what I do.  For if I can maintain My style of living for a year, while they can't get through more than a month, then I am wealthier.  So the ultimate goal is to have enough money or have enough investments to generate the money without working.  That is true wealth.  Not living from paycheck to paycheck which most of us do.  If the paycheck is bigger, usually the expenses are bigger.  But they don't have to be! It has just become the norm to spend what we have rather than be prudent.  Been there, done that, couldn't afford the T-shirt.     
I will say some prayers for you this weekend and keep the good thought that you will land that $8.00 per hour job! Although from what I read on these boards, all too often, that sound like a job only an illegal would be willing to do!  hmmmmmmmmmm...

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravennfyre


I just wanted to tell you that I absolutely LOVE your post on undermining American workers...I'm a single mom of two. I've been out of work since October, living on unemployment because I'm overqualified (and McDonald's isn't hiring until March). I've been making ends meet on $4.50 an hour when you break down my $190.00 per week unemployment check. That pays for my rent, utilities, cell phones and minutes, gas, insurance and car repairs, food, and weekly laundry. My landlord takes care of basic cable and water. I receive no child support because the FOC can't "find" him. Everything that's come through my door has cost me less than ten dollars. Televisions included. Everything I wear has come from consignment and thrift shops.My kids' clothing is purchased when it goes on sale. I sew. I bake my own bread. I do canning. I make my own jam.
I use coupons. I've even had to visit the local food pantry when things got really snug... I don't have credit cards. I'm a cash person. If I don't have the funds, we can't buy it. I don't borrow.
I'm saying constant prayers that I get this job I've interviewed for twice. Then I'll be making $8.00 an hour instead of $4.50. Will I spend the difference? Hardly. I've learned to live on considerably less than minimum wage, and I think I'll be able to continue for a while and save the difference in case this happens again down the road.

And you would be one of those exceptions to the rule I just wrote of and with circumstances beyond your control.  Unemployment isn't great but it's a good little net and I am glad you have it!  But you are also proof positive that it can be done when one needs to do it!  It's not the most pleasant thing in the world but it can be done.
You make an importnat point.  Wealth is actually measured (or should be) in terms of how long you can survive with no money coming in and maintain your style of living.  In some ways I could be wealthier than other who make 10 times what I do.  For if I can maintain My style of living for a year, while they can't get through more than a month, then I am wealthier.  So the ultimate goal is to have enough money or have enough investments to generate the money without working.  That is true wealth.  Not living from paycheck to paycheck which most of us do.  If the paycheck is bigger, usually the expenses are bigger.  But they don't have to be! It has just become the norm to spend what we have rather than be prudent.  Been there, done that, couldn't afford the T-shirt.     
I will say some prayers for you this weekend and keep the good thought that you will land that $8.00 per hour job! Although from what I read on these boards, all too often, that sound like a job only an illegal would be willing to do!  hmmmmmmmmmm...

*Edited for font

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

"Scrips" certainly was new to me.
 
It seems like something from at least 200 years ago.
 
Well, it pays to have a plan, good luck with that.
 
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

"Scrips" certainly was new to me.
 
It seems like something from at least 200 years ago.
 
Well, it pays to have a plan, good luck with that.
 
 

Nope... you didn't really see the demise of the company town until there were a few million Model Ts on the roads. And oddly enough, i have a couple pieces of U.S. military scrip from the occupation of the Phillipines in WWII... neat stuff, very colorful.

Failure to plan is planning to fail

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus

quote:

 
Slavery ended over 100 years ago, I guess since slavery was abolished, this is the
next best thing.

Pretty much.  Its called "serfdom".

Yup.  As recently as the 1950's, my grandfather worked as a WV coal miner and was paid in scrip.  If you don't know about, look it up.  It was basically plastic tokens instead of cold, hard cash.  It could only be spent at the coal company owned company store.  Technically, he wasn't a "slave."