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ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead
My assertion is that the roles that exist make it far easier for an abuser to do what he does.

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ORIGINAL: Rover

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ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

Emotional Sadists
This term describes a type of abuser who blends well and easily into the fabric of the lifestyle.

Why are emotional sadists all abusers?  Are physical sadists all abusers?  Don't you think this is an uninformed stereotype?

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He in a top role can appear, at least initially to be in sync with others in his or her role. Many of these pseudo tops are proficent at manipulating others to believe that they are on the level. The most dangerous among them are charming, charismatic, confident and very convincing in their portrayal of themselves as a genuine top.

Why aren't they "genuine" Tops?  What makes them "pseudo-Tops"?  Is that anything like triceritops?  Are all sadists "pseudo-Tops" and not "genuine", or just the emotional sadists?

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The majority will seek out a bottom who is a distance way because their longterm objective, abusing a bottom emotionally will require that the bottom leave their own community and join the top in her or hers, limiting the bottom's support system.

And this is based upon what study?  Is there any evidence to support this other than a fertile imagination?  There very well may be, but it would be important to know about it in order to put this claim into context.

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This type of individual will (until they have gained a significant degree of control) appear to be loving, nurturing, protective, and everything we bottoms seek in a sane, safe, responsible, and caring top. The other shoe drops later, and drops hard.

There are plenty of emotional masochists out there who would be grateful to find an emotional sadist for a consensual relationship (just as physical sadists find consensual physical masochists).  Why is it assumed that emotional sadists uniquely obtain partners via subterfuge and deceit?

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The emotional sadist will employ any number of strategies, and not just those I will list here, to undermine the bottoms self esteem and establish absolute contol, ie: projection, (they do something insensitive or cruel, then attack you when you attempt to address it) periodic and ongoing abandonment, continual critisism, attacks on the state of your mental stability (attempts to lead you to question whether you are perceiving reality accurately or are unbalanced), and questioning on a continuim your commitment to them.

Gee, now here is someone who personally dislikes emotional sadism passing judgment on it for the entirety of BDSM.  You might as well have Jerry Falwell or the National Organization of Women pass judgment on physical sadism, and pawn it off here as if it objective.  This is a well written article, proving that even well written articles can be full of crap.

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I have read here and elsewhere comments from both subs and slaves who avow that their top is always right and that they as a bottom have no choice or say so in how they are viewed or treated. Individuals with this mindset are an easy and ongoing targets for the emotional sadist.

I'm not aware of anyone that is "always right", but if their relationship isn't working for them then they always have the right to end it.  Statements like this portray slaves/submissives as mindless, irresponsible automatons who must be protected from themselves and their own bad decisions.

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Am posting this here as this is an educational forum and I suspect there are bottoms who have encountered this type of abuser, who may well be able to add something of substance to my description here which will further educate a novice on alt and prevent him or her from falling prey to such an individual.

Ah, the predictable educational and protection disclaimer.  What would we do if such learned minds were not out there protecting all the poor little subbie wubbies who are all just victims in waiting? 
 
Where's the puke icon?
 
John

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

One extremely abusive marriage, five times in refuges.

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ORIGINAL: lauren0221

Emotional sadism, in skilled hands, can be an amazing and wonderful thing. ........

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

One extremely abusive marriage, five times in refuges.

And each time one returns home for more, he/she is consenting to it.

Spoken from experience.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

One extremely abusive marriage, five times in refuges.

And each time one returns home for more, he/she is consenting to it.

Spoken from experience.

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ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

This has been taken entirely out of context. There are many who enjoy a healthy and safe power exchange in the lifestyle, this wasn't about those that do. It also wasn't about me personally either although it would appear that more than a few chose to view it that way. When I referred to emotional sadists I referred to individuals who act as they do out of a desire to harm/abuse someone. In othe rwords abusive individuals cloaking themselves in a tops garb who were truly no where in anyone's best interests but their own. Be a relationship vanilla or bdsm the type of toxic individuals exist. My assertion is that the roles that exist make it far easier for an abuser to do what he does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

This type of individual will (until they have gained a significant degree of control) appear to be loving, nurturing, protective, and everything we bottoms seek in a sane, safe, responsible, and caring top. The other shoe drops later, and drops hard. The emotional sadist will employ any number of strategies, and not just those I will list here, to undermine the bottoms self esteem and establish absolute control, ie: projection, (they do something insensitive or cruel, then attack you when you attempt to address it) periodic and ongoing abandonment, continual critisism, attacks on the state of your mental stability (attempts to lead you to question whether you are perceiving reality accurately or are unbalanced), and questioning [continually] your commitment to them.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

One extremely abusive marriage, five times in refuges.

And each time one returns home for more, he/she is consenting to it.

Spoken from experience.

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ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

why is the "emotional sadist" part of your post a link to the login page of alt?

just curious....

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ORIGINAL: amayos



If you dread happiness because it seems a tradition that strife seems to follow it shortly after, if you find yourself feeling jerked to and fro between joy and sorrow for reasons that just don't add up, if your honest and sincere desire to communicate or to find reason or a method to the madness continually seems an unending loop of two steps forward and three back, you are no doubt dealing with an "emotional sadist" or someone with a touch of bipolar (or both).

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The one-liner is great for a NCSF member who is trying to educate the ignorant masses about why what we do is different than a drunk husband beating his wife. Unfortanely, like all overly simplistic one-liners, in the big and complex world where consent isn't always something black and white, it doesn't pan out or even come close to presnting a realistic truth.

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos



If you dread happiness because it seems a tradition that strife seems to follow it shortly after, if you find yourself feeling jerked to and fro between joy and sorrow for reasons that just don't add up, if your honest and sincere desire to communicate or to find reason or a method to the madness continually seems an unending loop of two steps forward and three back, you are no doubt dealing with an "emotional sadist" or someone with a touch of bipolar (or both).

Then again, if you find yourself in the midst of the most difficult undertaking you've ever had to manage in your life; if you find yourself crying over what's happening, only to reach a point where something just clicks and you no longer are crying over that situation; if you then find you're stronger than you ever were, more centered than you ever were and find you're more confident, calm and self-assured than you ever were, you may find you've been with an emotional sadist who knew his craft.

juliet

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ORIGINAL: amayos

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra

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ORIGINAL: amayos



If you dread happiness because it seems a tradition that strife seems to follow it shortly after, if you find yourself feeling jerked to and fro between joy and sorrow for reasons that just don't add up, if your honest and sincere desire to communicate or to find reason or a method to the madness continually seems an unending loop of two steps forward and three back, you are no doubt dealing with an "emotional sadist" or someone with a touch of bipolar (or both).

Then again, if you find yourself in the midst of the most difficult undertaking you've ever had to manage in your life; if you find yourself crying over what's happening, only to reach a point where something just clicks and you no longer are crying over that situation; if you then find you're stronger than you ever were, more centered than you ever were and find you're more confident, calm and self-assured than you ever were, you may find you've been with an emotional sadist who knew his craft.

juliet

Or someone who simply guided you through the trappings of your own ego. There's a fine line between the two beasts, but the difference between them becomes clear eventually.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
there's a little 'c' word missing in the relationship between abuse and sado-masochism and it is.....CONSENT

I disagree.  Victims of abuse consent to abuse all the time.   t

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra
And the killer thing of it all is that - he's usually right. However, when I REALLY am upset - not just the angst living provides, he's right there, listening, HEARING me, and helping me to understand what's going on.
juliet

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ORIGINAL: amayos

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra
And the killer thing of it all is that - he's usually right. However, when I REALLY am upset - not just the angst living provides, he's right there, listening, HEARING me, and helping me to understand what's going on.
juliet

Areas underlined to emphasize the difference.

When the tears are born from the absence of these things, and they are imbibed joyfully or with little regard to the resulting consequences, therein lies, shall we say, "dysfunctional emotional sadism."

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ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

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ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i personally struggle with the idea that there can ever be abuse in an ongoing relationship....the word abuse irks me...to me, we all make choices, we know when something feels right or feels wrong to us, we have the power to stop it, we choose not taoo....often it is because we think things should be differnt then they are...and we get stuck there...scarcity thinking...codependant thinking...but the truth of this life is: no one is trapped...no one is a victim....everyone makes choices.

thats my take on it...any one want to show me the error of my thinking?

Whoa, i totally have to disagree with you.

Sure, we can allow certain things to happen in our lives and need to take responsibility but what about the UMs who are abused? Are THEY not victims? i sure as fuck was! ......Then the only bf i ever let into my life (cause i learned my lesson from being his VICTIM and have never had one of those since) that abused me...i was his VICTIM...when a gun is held to you and you can't leave or you will be shot-ummm that is being a victim...if he were some faceless criminal  i would be a victim so why not in the relationship??? Then i was just on the verge of being 18..i wasn't capable of saving myself, of protecting myself from the terrorism he put me through, the complete mind fuck....i didn't have the experience to know or not know if he would make good on his threats....i almost died when i finally got the nerve to leave....because he almost shot me and himself in a public place.On Halloween i just celebrated my 20th "birthday" of the day i escaped death.

So my point it, i was a victim, no two ways around it...Does that mean that in future relationships if i saw those types of signs and continued to stay that i wouldn't have to take responsibility for some of it? No. But to do such a broad stroked statement as: no one is trapped...no one is a victim....everyone makes choices.(and i don't know your history but...) That is just such a slap in the face to all of the people and UMs who have been victims, without responsibility for any of it

i'm not trying to sound like an asshole here, but damn this is just really close to my soul and was like metal finger nails on a damn chalk board.