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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/2/2008 11:47:29 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss
Some people believe you should shot at them an rub their noses in the mess and I don't think so.



Only the assholes!  (and good for you, you think right!)

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/2/2008 11:53:06 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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He just went out to pee, second time tonight he;s should be right on track!

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/2/2008 11:55:24 PM   
PanthersMom


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sometimes when you're dealing with an elderly pet you just have to treat them like you would an elderly relative, be loving and kind and keep the cleaning supplies handy.  there's plenty of good life left in your little buddy there, he just has a lil problem.  just like most older folks, it's got to be embarassing and frustrating to him to have accidents, especially after a lifetime of being trained.  all i can say is enjoy the time you still have and keep the cleaner handy, he'll be gone all too soon and you'd trade that emptiness for the messes any day.  

PM 

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 2:22:14 AM   
camille65


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I pull Mickeys water at about 7pm but that doesn't seem to do much. For the past 6-8 months she has been waking me up every 2 hours at night to go out. Sometimes I'm pretty groggy from all the sleep meds and she pees on the kitchen floor, thankfully not on any carpeting and yes she is always terribly embarrassed when I find her puddles. It isn't the emergency peeing that bothers me, it is the getting up usually 6 times a night to let her out then dry her feet off when she comes back in. She is much happier going out to pee but sometimes I wish she would just use the easy to clean linoleum. YHMA you said the hardwood would make it easier but if you leave urine on the floor for any length of time it will damage the finish. I agree with those that say to set up a bedroom area with newspaper or piddle pads if your dog will deal with being separated from you. Mine won't tolerate that, the spoiled baby dog must sleep in my bed or she literally cries all  night. Inface I am up right now because she woke me lol.Having constantly interrupted sleep..sigh. I'ts causing health issues, so that is why I kind of wish she would just pee on the kitchen floor!

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 3:29:16 AM   
kimba1


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oh, this makes me so bittersweet. I lost one of mine a few years ago when she was 17 ... Anyway, sweet girl that she was, she would try to make it to the back door (even though it was shut, and she had become blind) but she couldn't. I lined the floor with puppy piddle pads. They are scented, and besides, dogs like to go where they have before. This was for the daytime when I worked, at night, just at the very end, she slept in bed with me, and only a couple of times she had to wee, a couple of times she had a bad dream and i had to wash the blanket -- it happens. I would definitely suggest going to the vet, for if it is a kidney problem (rather than failure) it can be cleared up (just like with people).

My other little guy, who crossed over the rainbow bridge last year at 14, stopped wanting to sleep with me. He peed in the kitchen (yay, linoleaum!) and wherever he peed, that's where i would put the piddle pads. Occasionally he would change location so i would move the pads. They are MUCH better then newspaper. I woudl just cut off the used part (to save on pads) also to allow the scent to remain a tiny bit on the pad to encourage him to go on it again.

To clean up, i used Simple Solution (the stuff is miraculous) as it eliminates traces of their scent so they are less likely to go there again.

My first dog though, he wouldn't go in the house no matter what, too proud. So i too went about a year of waking up, letting him out, and in the end carrying him back up the stairs as he couldn't on his own.

In all three cases there came a time when they let me know that it was their time, that they were no longer enjoying life and I helped them go with dignity. Until that time, well, I tried to fill their lives with patience, love, and tender care. One day, I could be in their situation, and I treated them the way i can only wish that someone would treat me.

Give him soft gentle pets from me.

--kimba

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 3:33:44 AM   
Aileen1968


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Use diapers.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 7:01:31 AM   
windchymes


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Something popped into my head after reading these.....older dogs are very prone to bladder infections, which can make them have the urge to go more frequently, and less able to hold it back.  It wouldn't hurt to have them checked by the vet.  You don't even have to take the dog in if they've been seen regularly, just a urine specimen. 

For a female, as soon as she squats to pee, slip a pie pan under her to catch the urine.  For a male, any bowl or small bucket.  You don't need a lot to run a urinalysis, just a teaspoon or two will do. (But if you can get more, it's better.)   If it looks really cloudy and smells strong, they probably have an infection. Take that sample to the vets and say you'd like it check, that you suspect a possible bladder infection.  They're easy to clear up with antibiotics. 

Also, if an animal of any kind has an accident on the rug, there's a product out there called "Nature's Miracle" that truly is a miracle for removing pet stains and odor.  It's a little pricey, but it actually breaks the ammonia that you smell down into some other chemical compound that doesn't smell.  You have to soak it good, but it even works on older stains.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 7:06:16 AM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Dusty he's a cocker spaniel. When I find puddles in the rug, it's like he had to go an just couldn't wait any more  and nobody noticed he wanted out, or he didn't come and say so, cause usualy he'll come find me.

and when I wake him up at night to go pee, and he starts peeing  he sprays about a  serving spoon size full. or he did last time.


Yes, you should probably just start taking him out every hour or so now.  Don't wait for him to find you and tell you, because he probably won't be able to hold it that long. 

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 9:28:14 AM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

There's often times that the poor creature has gone in the house because every one was asleep or it was raining all day. I had the idea of a designated emergency potty area. but how would you train him this area and this area only?

Yes I know you put him out more an stuff an he won't mess the house, but I've put him out numerous times  before turning in for bed and we've still found shit or piss in the morning.


It's really quite simple;  teach the dog to drive and when he needs to take care of things, he just gabs the car keys, heads out to the local Chevron and takes care of business....you stay in bed and sleep.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 10:10:18 AM   
YourhandMyAss


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Aileen I've thought of those doggie diapers.

Camille I've also thought of  making a sleeping station, if you will. His sleeping pad anything else he could want, put lots of floor protection down  and then he can continue having water, cause he gets awful thirsty and desperate later on in the evening when we take his water away, so let him have his dish of water, and just clean up the pads or what you've put down in the morning.

The vets are closed today I'll call monday and tell them what is going on. They may want to see him or they may tell me to just let him out more often and limit nightly water in take.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 10:42:05 AM   
came4U


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dog training to stop this behavior?

1. small bowls of vinegar in the areas he goes to.  The smell of such will turn him off/and distract and is harmless to carpeting.

2. multiple food bowls in the area if the vinegar doesn't work.  No animal wants to sh*t or p*ss where they eat. 

gradually, he will prefer to hold it until he gets outside.  These are the most humane ways to rid of bad habits.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 10:44:39 AM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

dog training to stop this behavior?

1. small bowls of vinegar in the areas he goes to.  The smell of such will turn him off/and distract and is harmless to carpeting.

2. multiple food bowls in the area if the vinegar doesn't work.  No animal wants to sh*t or p*ss where they eat. 

gradually, he will prefer to hold it until he gets outside.  These are the most humane ways to rid of bad habits.


Did you notice where she said the dog was over 17 years old?  He may "prefer" to hold it, but he's just not going to be physically able to.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 12:20:11 PM   
Muttling


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I haven't read all of this but I have a lot of experience with dogs, including 2 ancient german shepards (one died at 16 and the other at 17.)

You certainly can train them to use the bathroom in a certain place in the house at that age IF they still have bowel control.


It's pretty simple really, use training pads or a water proof matress pad that is washable.  Take the dog outside and get some urine scent on the pads.  "Walk" the dog like your normally would, but take him to the room and the pads where you want him to go.   Praise the whizz our of him for using the pads and it won't take long for him to figure it out.   If he goes else where, scold him harshly and act upset with his actions.   Some dogs need a minor swat to get the idea, but most do just fine with a stern scolding.

The key is to know the difference between a bowel control accident and a "It's too painful to go outside" accident.   If it's a bowel control issue, there's not a lot you can do about it and harsh scoldings will just make the dog feel bad for something he can't control.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 12:28:38 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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came, he prefers to hold it now. He's getting to old to hold it any more and he tries valently not to pee in the house, but one can only hold out so long before nature takes over and makes the choice for you. And then of course the poor dog has no choice.

Muttling, sometimes he won't go out if it's raining and I hate to make him, so he ends up going inside. If it's cold too he hates goingo ut and I hate making him, but I do make him go out. I'll be making sure he goes out more than I have been once or twice a night before bed is obviously not enough chance to go. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

dog training to stop this behavior?



gradually, he will prefer to hold it until he gets outside.  These are the most humane ways to rid of bad habits.


< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 2/3/2008 12:31:34 PM >

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 1:01:58 PM   
TexasMaam


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You can teach an old dog new potty habits.  You have a few options:
1. a doggy door which works wonderfully.
2. use the new wee wee scented pads designed to encourage both puppies and older incontinent dogs to use the pad when they need to.
3. crate them at night on clean newspapers and clean up in the morning is fairly easy.

Good luck to you,

TM

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 1:10:19 PM   
Alumbrado


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17 to 18 is way beyond the lifespan for a spaniel. Please don't withhold water from a dog that old who is having end of life incontinence problems.. it will only hasten renal failure.  Use the puppy pads and or the diapers, or just clean it up as a very small partial repayment for being a companion.

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 1:12:25 PM   
lauren0221


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

17 to 18 is way beyond the lifespan for a spaniel. Please don't withhold water from a dog that old who is having end of life incontinence problems.. it will only hasten renal failure.  Use the puppy pads and or the diapers, or just clean it up as a very small partial repayment for being a companion.


I agree. This is the time in his life where you get to repay him for all the love he has given you over the years. Cleaning up a bit of pee is a small price to pay:)

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 3:00:24 PM   
kajiramre


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When was the last time you took him to the vet?   Has he had recent bloodwork to determine the state of his kidneys?  As another poster stated, withholding water will hasten renal failure, so that's not something that I would do.   There are multiple veterinary drugs available that can help with incontinence.  He could have a form of dementia and not even know that he is peeing.  Again, there are veterinary drugs available to help with age associated dementia.

You said he doesn't like to go out if it is cold or damp, perhaps he has joint issues that are exacerbated by these conditions which, again, there are plenty of veterinary medications available to aid with the problem.  The problem is the veterinarian can't help if they don't see the animal or know that there is a problem.

Honestly, I wouldn't suggest just walking into a veterinary clinic with a urine sample expecting them to run a urinalysis and then prescribe medication based off that sample.  It's simply not that straightforward.  There is no way to know where the bacteria in the urine came from.  Bladder, urethra, prepuce, floor, sample container?   Wouldn't do much good to give the dog antibiotics if the "infection" was from the container.  Now, I'm not saying that urinalysis aren't useful, they are very useful, but there needs to be some quality controls in place to make them so.

My advice, take your pet to the vet as she/he is the expert, can examine the animal, and will be better able to help you than anyone here on collarme.  

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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 3:02:56 PM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kajiramre

When was the last time you took him to the vet?   Has he had recent bloodwork to determine the state of his kidneys?  As another poster stated, withholding water will hasten renal failure, so that's not something that I would do.   There are multiple veterinary drugs available that can help with incontinence.  He could have a form of dementia and not even know that he is peeing.  Again, there are veterinary drugs available to help with age associated dementia.

You said he doesn't like to go out if it is cold or damp, perhaps he has joint issues that are exacerbated by these conditions which, again, there are plenty of veterinary medications available to aid with the problem.  The problem is the veterinarian can't help if they don't see the animal or know that there is a problem.

Honestly, I wouldn't suggest just walking into a veterinary clinic with a urine sample expecting them to run a urinalysis and then prescribe medication based off that sample.  It's simply not that straightforward.  There is no way to know where the bacteria in the urine came from.  Bladder, urethra, prepuce, floor, sample container?   Wouldn't do much good to give the dog antibiotics if the "infection" was from the container.  Now, I'm not saying that urinalysis aren't useful, they are very useful, but there needs to be some quality controls in place to make them so.

My advice, take your pet to the vet as she/he is the expert, can examine the animal, and will be better able to help you than anyone here on collarme.  


Begging to differ, it is perfectly acceptable to take a urine specimen in to the vet for urinalysis IF THE ANIMAL HAS BEEN SEEN REGULARLY, as I stated in my post.  As you would know, had you ever done veterinary work as I have, many times an animal already at the vet needs to have a urinalysis done, but you can't make an animal pee on command.  So it's a very common practice for the owner to obtain a urine specimen at home and take it back in later, sans (that means without) animal, for examination.  And vets very routinely suggest the pie plate method for collecting some urine from the pet, that's where I learned it.

If the animal in question does have a bacterial infection, trust me, it's very easy to detect from a sample brought in in a non-sterile container.  Wanna know why?  It's because on the urinalysis dipstick, it will detect an abundance of white blood cells and red blood cells present in the urine in an infection.  Those didn't come from an unsterile container.  Also, the abundance of bacteria in the specimen will make the nitrite section on the dipstick turn bright pink if there is an infection present.  So, those few little contaminating bacteria that might be on a pie plate make no difference whatsoever in the diagnosis of a bladder infection in an animal.

For good measure, though....when the urine in question is spun in a centrifuge and examined under a microscope, the overgrowth of one kind of bacteria causing an infection is very obvious to the trained medical professional.  Once again, those few miscellaneous bacteria (we call them normal flora or mixed flora) aren't going to make any difference whatsoever. 

No, I wouldn't suggest just walking in off the street to a strange vet and asking to have your dog's urine checked for an infection.  But for a dog who has been under regular and recent care by his vet, there is nothing at all wrong with doing do.  Same goes for a stool sample to check for parasites (worms).  I'm not sure where you got your information but.....???



< Message edited by windchymes -- 2/3/2008 3:26:44 PM >


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RE: How would you train an older dog where it's ok to p... - 2/3/2008 4:35:45 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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It's been about a year.  he gets yearly well care visits then any other time he goes as needed.

Last time he went it was for a serious teeth cleaning *IE knock him out go the whole 10 yards a deep cleaning*and they do blood work on EVERY thing from kidney's to heart and it was all fine. Of course situations can and do change so I'm not just blindly relying on last year's information.

My Dad* not my ageplay one* thinks it's stupid and a waste of money to take him to the vet at any little sign I feel something is wrong, but there's only been one or two times the visit wasn't warrented and about 12 times it was. It's sunday though  it has to wait till tomorow, I've left the message though.  It comes at an awfully bad time finacially though, I am supposed to be saving up for a move, and I am still 2 k in debt, this'll prolly add me up to 3 k. I do it though even if I can't rightly afford to take him. He deserves it.

I called the emergency vet care number and she seconds not taking the water away. She says if he's acting that desperate for it, as to go to his dish over n over and to look at me a ton of times then he needs it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kajiramre

When was the last time you took him to the vet?   Has he had recent bloodwork to determine the state of his kidneys?  As another poster stated, withholding water will hasten renal failure, so that's not something that I would do.   There are multiple veterinary drugs available that can help with incontinence.  He could have a form of dementia and not even know that he is peeing.  Again, there are veterinary drugs available to help with age associated dementia.

You said he doesn't like to go out if it is cold or damp, perhaps he has joint issues that are exacerbated by these conditions which, again, there are plenty of veterinary medications available to aid with the problem.  The problem is the veterinarian can't help if they don't see the animal or know that there is a problem.

Honestly, I wouldn't suggest just walking into a veterinary clinic with a urine sample expecting them to run a urinalysis and then prescribe medication based off that sample.  It's simply not that straightforward.  There is no way to know where the bacteria in the urine came from.  Bladder, urethra, prepuce, floor, sample container?   Wouldn't do much good to give the dog antibiotics if the "infection" was from the container.  Now, I'm not saying that urinalysis aren't useful, they are very useful, but there needs to be some quality controls in place to make them so.

My advice, take your pet to the vet as she/he is the expert, can examine the animal, and will be better able to help you than anyone here on collarme.  


< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 2/3/2008 5:00:59 PM >

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