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A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 6:42:21 AM   
Veryleggyredhead


Posts: 27
Joined: 2/5/2006
From: Tampa
Status: offline 		I often see references being made to slaves within the lifestyle
having no choice in what they do. Some state that this is
for them a 24/7 endeavor. What motivates a slave to completely
relinquish control? Is it for some, a thinly veiled unhealthy
dependency to lean on another? I think not as I feel that both submissives and slaves operate from strength, and not weakness. Is it the most profound display of love they can display toward another?  What is meant by the phrase that he/she has a slave's heart?
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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 6:49:54 AM   
greyangelus


Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline 		A lot of people go to church, but only a small percentage believe enough or are touched enough to dedicate thier life in service.  The reason for this are as varied as there are individuals, but they all have the same result; a complete dedication to the god/gods they serve. Swap religion for relationship, its nearly exactly the same thing.

Yes, I just equated priests and nuns to D/s slaves

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 6:51:08 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus

A lot of people go to church, but only a small percentage believe enough or are touched enough to dedicate thier life in service.  The reason for this are as varied as there are individuals, but they all have the same result; a complete dedication to the god/gods they serve. Swap religion for relationship, its nearly exactly the same thing.

Yes, I just equated priests and nuns to D/s slaves


yer gonna burn!!  LOL

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 6:59:57 AM   
MamaDomme1


Posts: 377
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus

A lot of people go to church, but only a small percentage believe enough or are touched enough to dedicate thier life in service.  The reason for this are as varied as there are individuals, but they all have the same result; a complete dedication to the god/gods they serve. Swap religion for relationship, its nearly exactly the same thing.

Yes, I just equated priests and nuns to D/s slaves


teehee-- I love it!

Bit seriously, the dynamics are much the same

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 8:15:45 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		A dear friend of Mine who has made this journey of self discovery this past year would say--it is a vehicle for spiritual and personal growth--nothing in that statement says unhealhty dependency or self destruction.
 
 

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 8:37:57 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

I often see references being made to slaves within the lifestyle
having no choice in what they do.


they always have an influence on who they serve....  so it is not as "romantic"as they want us to believe  lol


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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 8:43:11 AM   
PrizedPosession


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/2/2007
Status: offline 		It also depends who you chose. Master is pretty lenient with me because He likes to have conversations and knows i won't do anything wrong, for the most part...plus the whole being across the country makes it hard. But i have set rules and other things like that so i am still under His control.
i chose to be His slave because i love Him. i feel good doing it and the more power i relinquish the more i learn to trust and realize that  it's ok to be taken care of since i've had some trust issues in the past. Doing this helps me lean on others (in a healthy way) instead of being stubborn, i still have a long way to go but the more i do it the easier it is and the more i feel it is a part of me.
-bobcat
But that's just me.

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 8:51:34 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

I often see references being made to slaves within the lifestyle
having no choice in what they do. Everyone has a choice, you can choose to be someones slave or not.Some state that this is for them a 24/7 endeavor. Not quite sure what you mean by 'endeavor' unless you mean it is a personal goal. That is fine in my thoughts, I see nothing wrong with wanting to be owned completely and not just part of the day. I don't understand how you CANNOT be 24/7 if in a relationship.What motivates a slave to completely relinquish control? It feels good?Is it for some, a thinly veiled unhealthy dependency to lean on another? For some people, sure it is unhealthy. Some use it as a way to avoid dealing with the world and all of its inherent complications. I think not as I feel that both submissives and slaves operate from strength, and not weakness. Is it the most profound display of love they can display toward another?  I do not think one love can be more profound than another love. But I do believe that one persons relationship can be stronger than another persons. Subjective, it is all subjective what you are asking here.What is meant by the phrase that he/she has a slave's heart?Slave heart, burning in the belly and other phrases mean to me.. just a way to express themselves using florid phrasing.


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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 9:09:03 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		I wrote an essay entitled "A Slave's Heart", which I think is still around here somewhere.

As for slaves and submissives operating from strength... that's one of those idyllic blanket statements that simply isn't true.  You could say that some operate from a place of strength, and that would be true.  But it is also true that some operate from a place of weakness.  In my own experience, more operate from weakness than from strength.

Personally I object to the whole notion of "weakness" being "unhealthy" or "wrong".  Its a western concept born from a culture that worships strength and independence and views the opposites as being somehow bad.  The truth is human beings are social creatures and we are all interdependent to some degree... we all need others.  Try running a business entirely by yourself... if you want it to grow you will need people.  You'll also need customers, more people.  You'll need suppliers... still more people.  Same thing if you live anywhere... you need people... because someone else grows the food you eat, generates the electricity you use, provides all those services and products you consume... you simply can't survive on your own.  People need people... most of us would likely die if we were alone... and I mean literally die, you wouldn't be able to physically provide for yourself without other people to help you.

It's unfortunate that western culture attaches so much shame to service, to any form of dependency on others, to "weakness".  Why should there be any shame in being of service to another?  Yet often there is.  There's also the entire philosophical debate of just what being "strong" or "weak" really means in our modern culture.  Is someone stronger because they are physically stronger... and is that still relevant in a world that is heavily dependent on intellect?  Are they weaker because they have a lower paying job?  Are they stronger because they are better educated?  Are they weaker because they work for someone else?  Are they stronger because they have more free time?  Weaker because they drive an inexpensive car?  Stronger because they have a bigger house?  Weaker because they are more reliant on others?  What exactly constitutes strength and weakness in our world... and are those concepts still valid or even relevant to the world we actually live in?

My point, to sum up, is that we ought to examine some of the ideas we carry with us.  Within this "lifestyle" we find some who wish to control and others who wish to be controlled.  Why they want those things comes from a variety of reasons and motivations.  Of that myriad of motivations, we should also examine what is truly healthy or unhealthy, rather than blindly relying on ideals that may no longer apply.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 9:13:46 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

I often see references being made to slaves within the lifestyle
having no choice in what they do. Some state that this is
for them a 24/7 endeavor. What motivates a slave to completely
relinquish control? Is it for some, a thinly veiled unhealthy
dependency to lean on another? I think not as I feel that both submissives and slaves operate from strength, and not weakness. Is it the most profound display of love they can display toward another?  What is meant by the phrase that he/she has a slave's heart?


they are motivated for alot of different reasons..... and frankly... some of those reasons are unhealthy and many of those reasons are prefectly healthy.  There is not alot of commonality in a universal sense. 

For some it is a profound display of love... or others is an expression of co-dependency.  and that phrase.. can mean lot of things...

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 10:15:13 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead
What motivates a slave to completely
relinquish control?

Hardly anyone relinquishes control, what they actually tend to do is transfer authority.

As for the motivation...why is a woman motivated to become a wife?
quote:


Is it for some, a thinly veiled unhealthy
dependency to lean on another?

For some, sure.  But that's true of dominants and vanillas and everyone else also.

quote:

 I think not as I feel that both submissives and slaves operate from strength, and not weakness.

You obviously don't have much experience with real relationships then, I could point out a few weak insecure doozies hanging around right now.

quote:

 Is it the most profound display of love they can display toward another? 

For them it may be.  But it might have nothing to do with love at all.

quote:

 What is meant by the phrase that he/she has a slave's heart?

Oh just flowery wording about their relationship orientation.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 2/3/2008 10:32:05 AM >

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 10:30:36 AM   
greyangelus


Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MamaDomme1

quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus

A lot of people go to church, but only a small percentage believe enough or are touched enough to dedicate thier life in service.  The reason for this are as varied as there are individuals, but they all have the same result; a complete dedication to the god/gods they serve. Swap religion for relationship, its nearly exactly the same thing.

Yes, I just equated priests and nuns to D/s slaves


teehee-- I love it!

Bit seriously, the dynamics are much the same


Aye they are.  I went to one of the more fundamentalist christian churchs when I was growing up (Pentacostal to be specific).  While who I am now is no longer compatible with thier veiws, by and large the people I knew truly did belive in god and did so in a humble fashion which I feel is more in line with what the christian faith is intended to be.  

When I first stated explore the dynamic in my late teens (the internet really is a wonderful thing),  I ran across a lot of testomonials from slaves describing what being a slave meant to them.  At some point it clicked in my head that I had heard nearly the exact same words before.  In some cases, swap out the word "God" for "Master", and it was near verbatim from what had been described by those churchgoers I knew about thier feelings of God.

I'm going to steal part of another post here.

quote:

 
i chose to be His slave because i love Him. i feel good doing it and the more power i relinquish the more i learn to trust and realize that  it's ok to be taken care of since i've had some trust issues in the past. Doing this helps me lean on others (in a healthy way) instead of being stubborn, i still have a long way to go but the more i do it the easier it is and the more i feel it is a part of me.
-bobcat
But that's just me.


This could be one of those near verbatim descriptions I was talking about (thanks Prized).  Swap out the person being referred too to god, and then re-read the paragraph.  You'll see what I mean

(in reply to MamaDomme1)
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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 1:11:39 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings veryleggyredhead,

in my opinion, it has nothing to do with dependency. there are codependent people in perfectly vanilla relationships. there are codependent dominants. as a slave to my current master, i have actually grown out of my long-instilled codependency because he (as well as some of my life conditions) requires me to be extremely independent.

as far as control, i choose not to set limits on what he can and cannot do to me. doesn't mean i don't have physical and psychological limitations, but he is aware of those and knows when he is and isn't overwhelming them, and i know enough to trust and not run when he does. what motivates me? i love being able to be who i am - a slave. and i can be who i am with him, because we do have a huge level of trust and acceptance in our relationship.

respectfully,
annabelle.


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i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 1:13:11 PM   
HeidiAnn


Posts: 113
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		I really don't know about this whole weak/strong thing. I think those issues are things that every person deals with in their life. I know lots of vanilla couples, who stay together because they're too afraid to live on their own or something similiar.

I may be over simplifying, but I feel that D/s in a relationship is just a dynamic that I need to have as working and as balanced relationship that I ever can. I've been in a few vanilla relationships, but somehow they lack the structure and rules that I grave for in a relationship. Don't know why, and I quess I'm not even that interested in the why's of it.
:)

heidi


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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 1:59:31 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

What is meant by the phrase that he/she has a slave's heart?


I am in agreement with L.A, KOM and Padriag's answers, but thought I would throw in my own cynical one as well.

It usually means "I am more special than you"...which is a lot of what the "BDSM lifestyle" is about.

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 2:01:16 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead
What is meant by the phrase that he/she has a slave's heart?


IMHO, it's simply a poetic term that has been overused such as you will find in flowery vanilla love poetry.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 2:01:59 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		The OP appears to be fishing for reasons to say BDSM is bad in the eyes of 21st century understanding of the human (and female) psyche.  Her last thread is consistent with this too.

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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 2:09:11 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		I had a slave contact me once. His idea of slavery was very unhealthy in my opinion.
Dom/mes and slaves often have the same problems, we are all people after all.
Before I became a Domme I was far too independent for my own good.The need broke me in the end.
Now I can actually ask/instruct my SO's to help me.
As a Domme I can modify my own behaviour.
There are similarities in every core belief system.
People have similar needs. Belonging to someone or something is one of them.
Social isolation is the scourge of the Western World.

(in reply to HeidiAnn)
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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 2:29:04 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		For my circle, finding your 'slave heart' means that you've acknowledged you have found a spiritual path through fufilling service to a Master. For most others, the spiritual part is dropped. Fulfillment through being a slave with or without spirituality is the common factor. You might be interested to read Heart of slave and Heart of Master here.

http://www.arizonapowerexchange.org/academy.html

Master Fire




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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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RE: A Slave's Heart - 2/3/2008 2:47:23 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

What motivates a slave to completely
relinquish control? Is it for some, a thinly veiled unhealthy
dependency to lean on another? I think not as I feel that both submissives and slaves operate from strength, and not weakness.


Ideally, a slave should have a strong and healthy personality of her own.  In reality, this is not always so; even in "healthy" personalities there are the occasional hangups, issues, and neuroses.

Whether slavery is a healthy or unhealthy relationship ultimately depends on the specific dynamics of a specific relationship.  In my worldview, a "healthy" relationship dynamic (of any kind, kink or vanilla) is one that enhances the self-esteem and self-image of the participants; healthy relationships make people feel good about who they are, be they slave, master, or merely human.


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