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RE: I am a feminist. - 2/13/2008 12:09:45 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

WTF are you babbling about?  Did you even bother to read anything I posted about what feminism has accomplished (and is still striving towards) in both the hard and social sciences (without the help of the pop media and its pundits)? 


She wasn`t talking about you.

Ya know,it isn`t aways about Alumbrado,Alumbrado,Alumbrado.....lol

If you didn`t do what she mentioned,there`s no need to feel defensive.

She made some valid points.As did you also.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/13/2008 12:13:46 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: I am a feminist. - 2/23/2008 12:10:07 AM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline
Thank you very much, and I did not feel that I was "babbling", just expressing my opinion. I appreciate your defense, and Alumbrado, no offense meant.  I was NOT ralking about you, Owner 59 is correct.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

WTF are you babbling about?  Did you even bother to read anything I posted about what feminism has accomplished (and is still striving towards) in both the hard and social sciences (without the help of the pop media and its pundits)? 


She wasn`t talking about you.

Ya know,it isn`t aways about Alumbrado,Alumbrado,Alumbrado.....lol

If you didn`t do what she mentioned,there`s no need to feel defensive.

She made some valid points.As did you also.


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(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: I am a feminist. - 2/23/2008 2:18:01 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It means that a woman should be able to choose her life path based on her personal goals---and that her choice is a valid one whether she chooses to work outside her house, *or* to stay home and raise her family



I agree with this. I tend to think people are made rather than born, and, politically speaking, the vast majority of us in the West are free to choose our own path.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Why is this such a big deal to me?  Whenever I hear a young girl--by which I mean someone in her 20's, that could be my daughter--say that she is not a feminist, I feel betrayed. 

Those who would forget history are comdemned to repeat it?



I understand perfectly your point of view.

Value systems, thought control, manipulation, manufacture, the established social order etc all contrive to keep women in their place. I understand your frustration in that some women choose not to understand their place in society and/or that they can have equality: providing they want it.

Ultimately, we're back to the old liberal and conservative dividing lines of reject or protect the established social order, and underpinning this is a critique of human nature: in the blue corner, the optimistic liberals who believe reason, liberty and equality are achievable among human beings; in the red corner, the pessimistic conservatives who believe a rejection of the established social order will lead to chaos because at our core we're no more than savages kept in check by traditional institutions and forms of government.

Ideals versus pessimism, fuelled by personal experience, are at the core of this discussion.

Repeat history? History is progress. Conservative thinkers, such as Edmund Burke, did not believe society was capable of achieving all that we have in the past 300 years; I think if conservatives could see into the future, they'd be disappointed by the change in the social order.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 2/23/2008 2:44:10 AM >


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(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: I am a feminist. - 6/22/2008 9:46:55 AM   
cherrytvsissy


Posts: 13
Joined: 10/16/2005
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Status: offline

As long as this discussion of Feminism has digressed to a debate of tampons v. condoms, I’d like to add a little quotation I’ve seen fairly often recently (author unknown);

"If men had their period, they’d brag about the size of their tampons."

By the way, that type of argument (tampons v. condoms) is called, "reduce to the ridiculous, " and is a favorite tactic of most right wingers who are admitting, therein, they have no valid arguments. I always say, get a silly question … give a silly answer.

Seriously, however, Feminism is the most important and universal understanding, and undertaking of all times. The reason is because Sexism is the most wide spread form of inhumanity both horizontally (geographically), and vertically (historically).

"The world has never yet seen a truly great and virtuous nation because in the degradation of woman, the very fountains of life, are poisoned at their source." Lucretia Mott

We need not go through the litany of degradations forced on Women from the physical and legal; to the mental and emotional, but perhaps it is not unwise to just scratch the surface with a just a few. For almost the first century and a half (1776 – 1920) of this country you were required to have a penis in order to vote. The dowry, the concept that the female is exclusively a financial dependent and that a groom must be paid to transfer this burden from her father to him … upon which he assumes "ownership." Clitoraldectomy most associated today with Africa, but historically know worldwide, and still practiced in modern progressive societies today by social and physiological means. The socially indoctrinated belief among Thai "ladyboys" (professional transsexuals) that they should be good and pleasing to men so that in the next life they will be reincarnated as a male, even if it is only in a lesser animal form (which is apparently a higher status than being a human female). The right to dress as one desires without the fear, or danger, of some male interpreting her self expression as, "she was asking for it." Heteromormality being propagated as not only the right of male access to the female body, but also the exclusive right. The fact that once Hillary Clinton was out of the presidential race, it took little more than a nano-second for the misogynists to go after Michelle Obama. Oh, and on the condoms v. tampons thing, you know, of course, that Medicare will pay for the male sexual aid, Viagra, but will not pay for birth control or contraception for women. Well, the list goes on ….

As the great, (yet oddly little known), Black Lesbian Feminist, Audré Lorde said, "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house."

I consider myself, by the politically correct terminology of today, to be a "political feminist." I kind of like the old term, "radical lesbian feminist," (it just has a great in-your-face shock value and liberating essence). What it means is simply a concept that in order for females to develop as whole persons, it is desirable to remove all male influences (and repression). It’s kind of like an all girl’s high school, or college, where the emphasis and natural development is on self ,and achievement, rather that playing a social role dominated by male ideology. If this upsets some people … so be it (men have such fragile egos).

Maybe, by now some of you have noticed that I’m only a sissy, and not a Woman … and therefore ask, how can I be a lesbian? Let me have the well known lesbian feminist author, Rita Mae Brown, explain it to you, "Women who love women are Lesbians. Men, because they can only think of women in sexual terms, define Lesbian as sex between women." And, I may as well add, "Women are all female impersonators to some degree," Susan Brownmiller.

So here we have it, a chance to confront the truth about the sexes. Another favorite anonymous quote, "A man’s got to do what a man’s got to do. A Woman’s got to do what he can’t." Or if you like the same idea with a definite citation consider Timothy O’Leary, "Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition." Oh, well, here’s a couple more I like. "Remember, Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but backwards and in high heels," Faith Whittlesey. And this one is really true. "Whatever women must do, they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult," Charlotte Whitton. And finally, another unknown, but so very poignant observation, "Man endures pain as an undeserved punishment; woman accepts it as a natural heritage."

I don’t know why most men, and some Women, fear Feminist. Maybe, it’s because we dare not think, much less speak, the truth. We live in a world full of injustice, greed, prejudice, war and self loathing, yet we cling to the unnatural notion that being female, or even having a female affinity, respect or ideal is somehow at best, comical, and at worst dehumanizing. ("In my heart, I think a woman has two choices: either she's a feminist or a masochist," Gloria Steinem.)

Yes, I’m a Feminist. No apologies, no excuses, no compromises. To me, the great men of our time have all been Women; Audré Lorde, Alice Walker, Rita Mae Brown, Eleanor Roosevelt, Margaret Mead, Gloria Steinem, Clare Boothe Luce, Josephine Baker, Annis Nin, and the millions of others labeled for better, or worse, Female.

"Every time we liberate a woman, we liberate a man," Margaret Mead.

Cherry


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(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 284
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