RE: I am a feminist. (Full Version)

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Lashra -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:48:16 PM)

I am a feminist and I do not believe in female or male superiority. What I do believe in is having choices in life. Many people do not truly understand what it means to be a feminist. They have heard the stereotypes that all feminists hate men, are all lesbians and are bitches. They believe this because no one has shown them otherwise.

My daughter came home from school the other day a bit upset, a girl in her class said that all feminists hate men when they should be serving men and making them happy. My daughter spoke up and said if that is what you believe then fine but some of us do not view things from the same perspective. The girl told my daughter I'm a christian what are you a satan worshiper? My daughter said No I am a feminist. The girl replied Oh your a lesbian and rolled her eyes. My daughter said do you have any clue what feminist actually is? the girl admitted she did not she just knew what her father had told her. Once my daughter explained she was cool with it because she had been enlightened, even though her faith may not embrace feminism.

I believe in equal pay for equal work, I believe in equal rights (even for those who choose not to use them) I believe a woman should have a choice in going out to work or staying at home and being a homemaker, either way she chooses I will respect her. There are some militant feminists who do look down on homemakers and thats pretty sad considering being a homemaker is one of the HARDEST jobs out there. There are bad apples in every bushel you just have to look past those to find the good ones.

Because when it comes down to it feminism isn't about who does the laundry and who brings home the bacon, its about choices to do what we want in our lives and that can have positive effects for both genders.

~Lashra




SageFemmexx -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:49:26 PM)

I am a feminist because I believe in absolute reproductive rights for women and birth choices without men dictating who, what, when and where. I have given women choices for twenty five years and have advocated against violence against women in childbirth in everything from speaking to women's groups to teaching emergency childbirth in EMS classes.

What is violence against women in childbirth? I bet people never realized episiotomies, forceps deliveries, forced c-sections, rupturing membranes and induced labors were violations against a woman's body.
They are also traumatic and viewed as violence by midwives and the women that have endured them (if they remember them after the drug induced haze). 

How often do women think about laws that affect their bodies from having to have their husband's permission to have their tubes tied to parents giving permission for teens to have the pill? In this backwards state, women are refused choices, rights and information on a daily basis by people who think they are doing the "right" thing.

I think the term feminist has evolved to mean a multitude of things and protecting our bodies is just part of the definition.

Blessings,
Sage




MzMia -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:50:04 PM)

I certainly agree, being a Feminist usually has zero to do with being
a Female Supremacist.
 
Those that attempt to claim it is the same thing, on here, are usually trying
to be contemptuous.




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:50:08 PM)

quote:

First, let's start with some background and definitions.  I was born in the early 60's.  My mother always worked, but she was one of the rare ones.  Most moms stayed home, most dads went to work.  They never did housework, though lawnmowing was designated an acceptable guy task.  At school, my teachers said, Oh, Francine, you're so smart, you should become a teacher when you grow up!  Not a scientist, eh? 


Well, I am going to pick out this part of your post because it is the one that hits home the most for Me.
Ya see, I wasn't raised that way.  And I will say right now that I was born before you were.  My father could cook and do the dishes and help with the laundry.  My brother was given the same jobs as My sister and I.  No differences.  Except that heavy work not suited to (by virtue of weight and physical ability) us as young girls as well as a bit of extra leniency given during "that time of the month" was apportioned more logically.  I am not saying it was apportioned based on "this is what a guy does, and this is what the girls do"...I am saying to was apportioned by the logical family dynamic of getting  the job done most efficiently.  They often vacuumed because the vacuum was heavier.  They would carry the heavy bucket if the floor was being mopped.  I am not just comparing indoor/outdoor stuff here.  My brother took his turn cooking and cooks for his wife to this day.  He is good at it and has no problem with it.  (No D/s going on there...it is a very egalitarian relationship based upon frank open discussion, disagreemnts, and mutual respect.)
Perhaps I don't align Myself with the actual lable of feminist because I never had an attitude of needing to struggle to overcome any sense of discrimination.  Not in school, not in jobs, not in any of My aspirations.  I just never faced it. 
Maybe that is testimony to the way I was raised.  I may have developed an assumptive attitude that I had just as much right to this management job as the guy next to Me, and I never had a problem.  I usually got the job.  If I didn't I was philosophical about it and worked harder if I wanted the job.  I never looked at any of the males I worked with and felt that they were less deserving than Me but got it because they were male.  I certainly didn't want to get it because I was female.    I always credited it to the common sensibility of the company that realized I could do the job better without regard to My gender. Or they could do the job better, but not because they were male. 
Maybe I need to look back a bit more and be grateful that people were paving the way...but I was already in the midst of the business world when NOW was at it's height and they were marching for rights it never occurred to Me I didn't already have.  And their bras.  Frankly I needed Mine to give Me a better shape under My clothes so I couldn't get on board with that one.  I didn't look at things like a bra as a restrictive piece of clothing I was being made to wear to keep Me in My place.  I saw it as a reasonable undergarment that gave Me the support My physical body needed.  *shrug* 
When I did elect to stay home when I had My UM's (and I breastfed) I had absolutely no one to socialize with .  All the others were working. And I moved into My Mother years in the 80's.  So we are not talking about the beginning of the big wave of equal rights for women.  It was already in full swing for 20 years or more.  I credit the fact that My oldest was always 2 going on 30 as a result of the fact that she had no one to interact with but Me.    I was looked down upon, as if I was betraying " the cause".  Why wasn't I working?  Why was I staying home with the little one?  Wasn't I suffocating and dying?  No I wasn't.  It was My choice and it never occured to Me that I didn't have the right to make that choice.When the time came that I felt like I had to get back out there,  I did.  But I was a bit torn, and the company that wanted to hire Me was actually waiting for Me, on tenterhooks, while I was pretty much dictating how much time I needed to think about their offer. 
I do believe that the concept has changed a bit and there is much more in the line of respecting and supporting a woman's choice to work or not to work, and to be able to choose the field she prefers.  But I never like the pushing of "nursing bad...you should be a doctor".  It only puts pressure on the woman (and men) who are happier in nursing.
I will finish this by saying that I was not sleeping a few nights ago and Leave it to Beaver was on TVL.  I laughed when I saw the June actually did have an opinion and Ward listened to her.  Yes she was wearing the obligatory skirt with the string of pearls complimenting the pretty apron.  But I also saw the family interaction and the boys being told to set the table.  It was in tune with a family working in tandem.  Not one person doing certain jobs and the other being the absolute boss.  I am not saying that some traditions didn't need to be broken, but I think that the mutual respect was already there in a lot of families, as depicted in that show from the 50's.  And even with all that, we still have abusive relationships wherein we are shocked that the woman, in spite of the resources available, will remain in that abusive relationship.  We cannot socially engineer these things.  We need to have laws to monitor and punish abusive situations, but I believe it begins in the family dynamic and automatically spreads to the workplace and the next generations. 
Perhaps NOW did move things along a little faster; however,  I also believe they remain harmful in certain ways.
I define feminist (perhaps incorrectly) as one who is fighting for equal rights, for themselves as well as others of the same gender.  It is hard for Me to fight for something that I never didn't have.  I think it is an attitude and a hyper-sensitivity that causes misunderstandings and a feeling of inequality when none exists or it is easily remedied without crying "discrimination".  But that is just My take on things. 
Hope I have made a bit of sense here.





CuriousLord -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:55:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I certainly agree, being a Feminist usually has zero to do with being
a Female Supremacist.
 
Those that attempt to claim it is the same thing, on here, are usually trying
to be contemptuous.


Because no female supremacist has ever tried to push her agenda under the flag of feminism, right?

Jeesh.  Just say that you're into equal rights if that's what you mean.




woodsbunny -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:56:01 PM)

I'm finding this discussion interesting for a number of reasons. I've been reading Off Our Backs since the mid-1980s and, while I may quibble, on the whole I agree with their viewpoint(s). Having Off Our Backs in one pocket and my interests in bdsm and 1930s-1950s bdsm erotica in the other creates some heated inner discussions.

Feminist analysis is an important key for me to understanding our culture and society and how it works. It's a key but there are lots of different keys that need to be used for that troublesome lock.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

Woodsbunny




ravennfyre -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:57:04 PM)

I don't care to be called a "feminist". I prefer to be called "capable".

I am quite capable of changing my own tires, doing a complete oil change  myself, electrical work, plumbing, etc. I learned from some very special men in my life.
Even though I am capable of doing these things, I would rather be the domestic diva: sewing, cooking, cleaning...

I know I can make it on my own...I'd rather be a helpmeet for my family.

I could care less if I make less than a man that's doing the same job I am...chances are, he's got a family at home and a wife/partner that is a domestic diva...






Alumbrado -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 3:57:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

"Feminist" just means something different today.  It means "female supremacist", so they're largely pretty hated in colleges.  The people who feel that people shouldn't be discriminated against based on sex aren't "feminists" but that's just the normal view.

This girl might not use the same word that you did, but she may still share your hopes and ambitions.  But the problem is you're looking at her to share them because she is female.  A lot of girls I know would take offense to that, in the same way a lot of guys will take offense that you expect something different from them based on their gender.

Times change, ya know?


That would make feminism, female supremacists, and academia, three things you have just demonstrated great ignorance of, and yet you pontificate upon them using phonied up assertions.

Particularly in colleges, feminist theory is looked at as an opportunity to do new work without the distortions brought about from centuries of male dominated influence.

Try researching the breakthroughs in medicine, criminology, econometrics, and other areas as a result of feminist thought before you shoot your mouth off using Jerry Springer level definitions and rhetoric again.




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:00:50 PM)

i am WOMAN...

hear me....FART [:D]

oops...my bad....

i meant to say ROAR!

truly i did....but gas issues you know... [:D]




MzMia -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:01:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

"Feminist" just means something different today.  It means "female supremacist", so they're largely pretty hated in colleges.  The people who feel that people shouldn't be discriminated against based on sex aren't "feminists" but that's just the normal view.

This girl might not use the same word that you did, but she may still share your hopes and ambitions.  But the problem is you're looking at her to share them because she is female.  A lot of girls I know would take offense to that, in the same way a lot of guys will take offense that you expect something different from them based on their gender.

Times change, ya know?


That would make feminism, female supremacists, and academia, three things you have just demonstrated great ignorance of, and yet you pontificate upon them using phonied up assertions.

Particularly in colleges, feminist theory is looked at as an opportunity to do new work without the distortions brought about from centuries of male dominated influence.

Try researching the breakthoughs in medicine, criminology, econometircs, and other areas as a result of feminist thought before you shoot your mouth off using Jerry Springer level definitions and rhetoric again.



[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]
We all know most people outside of this lifestyle have NEVER even heard of Female Supremacy.

Thank you for some semblance of logic, reasoning and sanity.




Aswad -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:02:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

It's not just anti-feminists. I speak from personal experience that I have been yelled at by "feminists" for my life choices because they were "wrong". The feminist movement itself has some followers that give it a very bad name. I've seen women complain because a three pack of condoms costs less than a 12 pack of tampons and this is clearly male oppression.


I can beat this one...

Up here, a feminist tried to charge retailers with discrimination because pink mobile phones cost more than factory-default color. Never mind that there's an actual labor cost involved, or that the retailers have to pay for the differently colored covers, or that not all women prefer pink (my girl would smack me in the head with it if I gave her a pink phone, I suspect), or even that the assumption that pink is intrinsic to women is pretty much a gender stereotype in its own right.

Of course, not nearly as offensive as feminists actively oppressing women (cutting off their hair; cutting the heels off their shoes; nagging about how they are betraying the "sisterhood" by doing what they want, instead of following the doctrines of whatever school of thought the offended party is from), but it still goes to show just how silly it can get, sometimes, and why that gives genuine feminism a bad name (most people readily generalize the traits of an individual to whatever group(s) they identify them witth).

I love the idea of equitable treatment, strong women, etc... but CL has a point... my generation doesn't call feminism anything other than "normal" and reserve the actual word for the extreme fringes. Which sort of indicates just how well genuine feminism has worked.

Health,
al-Aswad.




CuriousLord -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:03:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

That would make feminism, female supremacists, and academia, three things you have just demonstrated great ignorance of, and yet you pontificate upon them using phonied up assertions.

Particularly in colleges, feminist theory is looked at as an opportunity to do new work without the distortions brought about from centuries of male dominated influence.

Try researching the breakthoughs in medicine, criminology, econometircs, and other areas as a result of feminist thought before you shoot your mouth off using Jerry Springer level definitions and rhetoric again.


Right.  Ignorance.  Because you know more about college students' views today more than I or others may age who have posted.

You completely missed my point about how things are today in this rash spectacle.  Please, think this out.




kittinSol -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:05:25 PM)

Man... oh, man...




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:06:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Man... oh, man...


its ok...let it out....we all have gas issues....




kittinSol -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:07:39 PM)

Aswad, I hear about these 'extremists' all the time, but I have yet to encounter one in person. And the Eternal knows, I've been around for a bit.

So, I have to ask: do you agree with the assertion that feminism will have achieved some of its goals when the majority of the women in power are incapable?




Aswad -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

To define it today usually leans more towards women should be empowered because they are women; not because they are people.


Yup. In fact, they don't call it feminism or equality up here, anymore.

Instead, they use a word that loosely translate as "the women's cause," and it's a pretty bad blow against equality.

Health,
al-Aswad.




LadyLynx -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:10:54 PM)

Stephann, you make a good point.  In general in any group, there will always be someone to kick another, just because.  *sighs* gods thats a depressing thought




kittinSol -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:13:19 PM)

Because it's a 'women's cause', it's alright to bash at it, to question it, to make it somehow illegitimate. It's fine to deride it. It's actually become uncool to be a feminist, yet women's bodies are more of an economic commodity than ever.

Something has gone horribly wrong, and I don't believe it's by trying to kill feminism that the situation will get any better. It's actually time for reflection.




Aswad -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:13:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Because when it comes down to it feminism isn't about who does the laundry and who brings home the bacon, its about choices to do what we want in our lives and that can have positive effects for both genders.


Very well said.

Health,
al-Aswad.




CuriousLord -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/3/2008 4:13:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx

Stephann, you make a good point.  In general in any group, there will always be someone to kick another, just because.  *sighs* gods thats a depressing thought


The trick's to just see everyone as a person and give a person hell when they discrimate against other people.




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