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Owned Slaves Question - 9/6/2005 4:03:00 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		There are a good number of profiles here that state quite clearly the Domme is looking to completely own the slave(s). Every time I see these profiles, the first thing I think of is "Have these Dominants thought this through for the long term?" I thought I'd put this out as a question because it seems like a reasonable concern but rarely do I see any discussion of the matter.

So...if you're a Dominant and you take on a slave or slaves to live out their life as your property, and these slaves never make a mistake that deserves dismissal...what are your provisions for when they reach old age (let's say 70 years old for example)? Are any of you thinking that far ahead? Is that part of the plan?

It's different if your slave happens to also be your husband, so this is for those Dommes out there looking for slaves outside of marriage for whatever reason. I've seen some who have a Dominant husband/partner already but some don't have anyone and aren't looking for a partner/husband either.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
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RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/6/2005 4:14:21 PM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

So...if you're a Dominant and you take on a slave or slaves to live out their life as your property, and these slaves never make a mistake that deserves dismissal...what are your provisions for when they reach old age (let's say 70 years old for example)?


Doesn't mean the guy doesn't have a job, retirement plan, social security.

Ownership and even 24/7 have lots of different applications in real life.

I'm not sure vanilla couples give all this adequate thought. Especially nowadays.

But really this is quite a fascinating question. It will certainly be enjoyable, fascinating to see what responses you get.

Richard

< Message edited by iamdownonmyknees -- 9/6/2005 4:15:22 PM >

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RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/6/2005 6:57:12 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Alright, I'll have a go at this. This has been addressed in the past, but usually as an aspect of conversation that has ebbed and flowed around one of the many "money" threads. I am using the universal "you" here, and this is not directed at anthrosub, personally.
It depends on the situation. I use a contract, and that is part of what is covered. A percentage of income is put aside into a savings account of some sort. If there is a retirement plan of some sort that is in place, and being added to by payroll deduction, I do not touch it, and I insist that it continue to be added to. If there are other liquid assets to be considerd, perhaps from the sale of a home, a decision is reached regarding those funds via private negotiation.
OTOH, I try to make it very clear in My profile that a boy should be reasonably prepared to enter into an "owned property" sort of relationship, if he is seriously looking. I am amazed at how many aren't. For example, if a boy purchased a Lexus last year, I am not fond of the idea of taking on his $400 or $500 per month payments for the next several years. Whether you like it or not, part of your value as a slave is your ability to make My life more comfortable. Expensive cars, boats, motorcycles, SUVs or trucks, pricey gym memberships, rounds of golf several times a week, and those ski vacations you just can't live without, thousands of dollars in credit cards bills, and bragging rights to your custom made dress shirts do little to impress Me. (Yes, I have had that!) Unless you are already independently wealthy, if you wish to serve Me, part of your service and submission does not include your platinum credit card with a $12,000 balance. If you are independently wealthy, then the bill be be paid off and the card will be in My control. How about them apples?
I do take a very careful look at a budget. You might be surprised at how many boys really don't have one. They eat out most nights, go to the football games or watch them in the sports bars with their buddies, often are not available for a phone conversation because they are taking a long weekend vacation, and any other number of reasons why the money constantly flows out. These are the boys (so many of them) that give Me pause. Are they really ready to serve? To give it all up? I am not going to make someone a prisoner, or refuse any form of entertainment for the rest of their lives, but there are a lot fo boys out there living a pretty free and easy lifestyle who claim they want to be "owned". I am not so sure about that!
Although it is not the intent to look down the road and think that this relationship is going to end at some point, chances are it could. So a boy should be thinking about his future. You will have a car and a job, your retirement plan and, most likely, a larger amount of immediately accessible funds, if you end up hitting the street. As to retirement, same thing. I am in the same boat. I have already scaled back My lifestyle. I am not as attached to, nor do I need "things".
Want a giggle? I have been turned down as a potential Domina, more than once, as soon as the boy realized I do not drive a Mercedes, and I no longer live in a 5000 square foot home.
Hmmmmm....makes ya think, doesn't it?

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 9/6/2005 7:02:50 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/6/2005 9:52:21 PM   
dekley


Posts: 56
Joined: 2/22/2004
Status: offline 		As I've gotten older, I've had the same concerns anthrosub. So much so in fact that I no longer maintain an active profile here. When I did, most of the responses I received seemed to be overly concerned with my net worth/income. One Domme in particular who contacted me was quite interested in me as I met just about all of her requirements. She was looking for a slave to serve her in an absolute lifestyle arrangement in which the slave was owned property, thus ultimately prohibited from owning property himself. I purposely lowballed my income/net worth, and she dropped me like a hot potato. I'm now aware of the fact that she's run into some major financial difficulties. The sad thing is that I honestly believe that she is sincere in what she is seeking, but its apparent that she's had problems managing her own finances. And even if a Domme in such a situation was highly competent in financial matters, what if she dies first? Not a pleasant thought, but it happens. Unless she's made provisions in a will, her sub/slave, without the benefit of being her legal spouse, would have no legal claim to any assets that were once his.

While I'm in reasonably good health for my age and probably more active than many much younger than I am, I've been around long enough to know that life offers no guarantees. Seems I've had way too many friends lately, my age or younger, who are no longer with us. We're all going to get old and die, unless of course we get sick and die before we get old. The caveat then, as I see it, for a sub/slave in a TPE relationship based on ownership is that he could someday find himself out in the street, old and sickly, and with no resources of his own to adequately support himself.

While GoddessDustyGold makes some excellent points, unfortunately not every Domme seeking a TPE arrangement is going to take the precautions for her sub/slave that GDG takes. So I guess its pretty important to spend a substantial amount of time getting to know someone, both in the vanilla world and in the D/s world, and building a high level of trust before committing to any such relationship.

dekley


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~Anatole France~

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RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 7:04:48 AM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		to the posting for all
========

after end help?

i have my own finances to take care of myself so "I" do not need anything from any domme......AND ...MY Ms ...IS married so the hubby has claim anyway.........
i have "heard" of it but never seen myself ANY domme putting aside money for slaves/subs......
but this is just me......so in MY view here.......what sub/slave is THAT dependant ON a domme anyway?
we ARE talking adults? it's as though we were discussing care of children here instead of adult living arrangements? why would any sub/slave even THINK of getting their paws on someone else's stuff that is not their's anyway?
a lot of audacity as "I" see it. basically "I" am more-or-less just-a-boarder...paying my rental...giving my money to my Ms..there is no "family" thing going on here.....IF by quirk She dies first......IF.......then "I" would just move-on-down-the-road to the next mistress...

this whole posting seems so utterly silly to even discuss in MY view anyway to begin with....

but it's just MY world looking at it. i guess you all live in a totally different world than i do, huh?
i am just totally independant enough i do not need someone else to pitch in........to MY pocket.....i feel it insults my devotion to Her.


wolf


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"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


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RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 8:53:04 AM   
pandora29


Posts: 22
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline 		I guess i'll add my few cents in here....For many of the reasons that you have said is why i have not been willing to accept a 24/7 or owning slave yet.I have looked far into the future and asked myself many questions,hell i think about giving my dogs away when they piss me off lol.I was also married so i know about the intermingling of finances and property also,definately not a easy thing to handle when things start going bad.


No lonewolf it's not a stupid question,at least anthrosub is having some thoughts of the future no matter how off to you they mat seem.No question is stupid if one doesn't know the answer.

< Message edited by pandora29 -- 9/7/2005 8:59:07 AM >

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RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 8:55:42 AM   
MsBriarRose


Posts: 6
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline 		I have seen both. In the best case I saw, the Domme placed all of subs belongings in storage and money in a bank so the sub could get his life back if things did not work out. Any money he made while owned, of course belonged to her.

Ultimately we must choose our relationships wisely.

Briar

(in reply to lonewolf05)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 9:28:01 AM   
MsPurrmeow


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		For me, Slavery and Ownership are still a relationship. Since I value learning and growth as well as self-sufficiency, I think everyone in the household needs to have a job and retirement funds. I organize such things for several people not including my own poly family, so adding one more doesn't frighten me.

My slave would be encouraged to have a job outside the home. I think that, for mental health reasons, everyone needs to get out and be a part of the world. They'd need to take care of any debt they incurred before the relationship on their own, and I'm sure some spending money (properly budgeted) wouldn't hurt either. Everyone needs to contribute to the household. Unless they are a damn good housekeeper and provide other services that require a full day, I don't see how it would be equitable to provide for a person that does not contribute to their own basic needs.

D/s is about the relationship in my world. Basic logistics are just a reality, and they cannot be tossed aside just to fulfill an emotional need. In my family, regardless of roles or documents tying one to another, each person has individual funds and arrangements in case someone passes away. Everyone is protected as an individual. It does not matter whether they are Husband, slave or "otherly-labelled-family-member".

(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 2:46:20 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		Well, only a few posts so far and the focus seems to be taking a financial leaning. I hope everyone is posting without reading the thread or they will get the impression that's what the subject is all about.

It's not.

I'm asking about the human side of owning a slave into the sunset years. Obviously, there needs to be provisions for the time when working is no longer possible. I should also add here that there are many, many variations on how support is obtained, so this is not a question of who supports who, how, and for how long.

I'm just curious if anyone who's of a mind to really "own" a slave has thought that far ahead and what those thoughts have been. There are Dommes here that own farms and want slaves to live in cages, have a job, and work on the premises. There are Dommes who want a house slave (who also works outside the home but that's all), and there's Dommes who must be financially secure enough to want to take a slave and keep him like a pet, never to leave her side. These are just a few examples of the immediate situation being sought but this will change over time, so what do people think about the long term?

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 3:41:22 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Yes, I did lean toward the financial end of things, because that seems to be the main concern. If you are speaking of health, being elderly, not being able to do everything anymore...okay.
Like any couple, regardless of the intent of the relationship, if someone was with Me for that long, we would take care of each other, and have adult children and others to assist in areas where neither could handle it anymore. I would not expect an elderly man who has arthritis or other disabling conditions to continue to kneel, do all housework, etc. Relationships, even friendship, or M/s relationshiops will evolve. I have had young and healthy boys who are ill...I was the one who brought the tray to the bedroom. No one broke My arms or legs. I had a boy who was visiting and broke his ankle. I took him to the emergency room, and put him to bed when we got back. He hated it... I laughed. That's life. Again, no one has broken My arms and legs. I am quite capable. I just prefer to have an M/s relationship. But nothing is perfect all the time, and everybody needs to be flexibile. I know of a Lady who is now living in South Africa on a farm with her faithful slave of 35 years. He is over 70 now. She has other boys who also help out and his duties have been minimized.
Is this what you are speaking of?
If so, then, as was stated before, one should really get to know who you choose to serve. It is a commitment on both sides. I am sure there are heartless people out there who will simply kick someone to the curb if and when their are no longer useful. But I think there are many more who would never dream of such a thing. Either you are a loyal person (on either side of the whip) or you are not. Ya know, there is a reason I ask some of the questions I do, as I am trying to get to know a boy. I can perceive much thorugh careful conversation and good listening skills. Choose wisely.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 6:39:38 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I'm just curious if anyone who's of a mind to really "own" a slave has thought that far ahead and what those thoughts have been. There are Dommes here that own farms and want slaves to live in cages, have a job, and work on the premises.
I didn't reply because this doesn't pertain to me in that I'm not looking for multiple subs/slaves, and am not looking for a relationship with a servant devoid of intimacy. In my case whomever I am in a long term relationship with would be treated like a husband whether we were married or not (with a legal contract/power of attorney/agreement). M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/7/2005 6:41:26 PM >

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 8:46:20 PM   
TiNeedsHouseboy


Posts: 145
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Big Apple blossom blown to The Windy City
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub
...this will change over time, so what do people think about the long term?

I have read both of your posts thoroughly. I'm sensing an underlying, yet unasked question.

Are you trying to ask if a dominant accepts a sub who's not bound by marriage, will that leave the sub dumped -- rather, released -- when the sub is too old and rickety to provide service?

~ Ti ~

(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 9:08:04 PM   
TiNeedsHouseboy


Posts: 145
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Big Apple blossom blown to The Windy City
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dekley
I purposely lowballed my income/net worth, and she dropped me like a hot potato.

I dunno what kind of people you were contacting that they were checking out your income before you met. That's not even a topic I would cover until long after meeting and ascertaining the existence of reciprocal chemistry and interest.... since I begin a vanilla alliance, not a D/s relationship -- until I'm sure about who's asking to serve me.

OTOH, if it helps you sleep at night to think that your income was the reason she dropped you, then to quote John Lennon, "Whatever gets you through the night."

BTW, it's a tad odd that if you were dropped so abruptly, you somehow still managed to find out that she's having financial problems.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dekley
Unless she's made provisions in a will, her sub/slave, without the benefit of being her legal spouse, would have no legal claim to any assets that were once his.

Anyone who's in a 24/7/TPE damn better well make appropriate provisions. Otherwise, the person has no right to lay claim to a safe, responsible relationship.

Since all D/s relationships are consensual/negotiated, it's up to the sub to make sure that "provisions" are negotiated into the relationship if the dominant doesn't happen to bring up that topic on a timely basis.... as in before any contracts are signed, committing to a TPE.

Just my opinion in Ti-Land...

~ Ti ~

(in reply to dekley)
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RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 9:26:26 PM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I dunno what kind of people you were contacting that they were checking out your income before you met.

-----
say what? EVERY domme i have talked to asks how much $$ is in my pocket....in the first emails...ALL of them have...i figure it is just a female thing since females ARE miore hung up on "security" than males are. even my 3 wives did it..ya know?
==


Anyone who's in a 24/7/TPE damn better well make appropriate provisions. Otherwise, the person has no right to lay claim to a safe, responsible relationship.

Since all D/s relationships are consensual/negotiated, it's up to the sub to make sure that "provisions" are negotiated into the relationship if the dominant doesn't happen to bring up that topic on a timely basis.... as in before any contracts are signed, committing to a TPE.


Just my opinion in Ti-Land...

~ Ti ~
--
and i suppose You are entitled to that. but, "I" have nothing being put aside for me from my new Ms here nor did i from my 1st Ms either...and i was with HER 15 months..and all She had left from the $50K i gave Her was under $1k......when i left..
what domme(s) actually put money away? i have never heard of it..

wolf


_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 9:44:18 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think the question is unasked...rather, you reworded it in not so gracious terms. Of course I'm talking about what happens when people reach their advanced years in this type of arrangement. If it's supposed to be the real deal now, why shouldn't things be just as sincere later on?

Those who claim to be seeking this...are who I'm directing the question towards.

Regarding Dommes checking out potential slave's income...I've had several contact me and get right to the point. When they discovered I wasn't a financial lily pad, they told me I wasn't the right one for them. There are a lot of people out there looking for coat tails to ride on. That's one of the many reasons there's so much trouble meeting sincere partners. I truly believe the word has gotten out and people are signing up as "Dominants" like the California gold rush in 1849, thinking they're going to strike it rich.

Regarding the Domme mentioned in dekley's post, I'm pretty sure I know who it is. This person is updating her profile from time to time to let everyone know what she's been going through over the past 3 years. She's not a player and I truly hope she finds what she's looking for.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to TiNeedsHouseboy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 10:34:08 PM   
dekley


Posts: 56
Joined: 2/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TiNeedsHouseboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: dekley
I purposely lowballed my income/net worth, and she dropped me like a hot potato.

I dunno what kind of people you were contacting that they were checking out your income before you met. That's not even a topic I would cover until long after meeting and ascertaining the existence of reciprocal chemistry and interest.... since I begin a vanilla alliance, not a D/s relationship -- until I'm sure about who's asking to serve me.


I didn't contact her initially. She contacted me.

quote:

OTOH, if it helps you sleep at night to think that your income was the reason she dropped you, then to quote John Lennon, "Whatever gets you through the night."


The following is an exact quote from the last email that she sent to me: "Your income is too low."

quote:


BTW, it's a tad odd that if you were dropped so abruptly, you somehow still managed to find out that she's having financial problems.


As anthrosub alluded to, it's in her journal.


dekley


_____________________________

Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened...

~Anatole France~

(in reply to TiNeedsHouseboy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/7/2005 11:24:21 PM   
TiNeedsHouseboy


Posts: 145
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Big Apple blossom blown to The Windy City
Status: offline 		I'm really short on time. So, I'm going to cross-refer you to the Jack Rinella archives:

Financial Aspects of Slavery

BTW, something goofy happened with the HTML on that page. A whole other article appears at the bottom of the page.
"Financial Aspects of Slavery" ends with the following statement:

<< Dreams of servitude might get you off, but the piper must be paid. Plan now to have the wherewithal necessary. >>

Pay close attention to the fact that Jack expects his slaves to turn over practical, but not legal, control of the assets in question.

When Slavery Ends

Notice this crucial statement in the article:

<< I will remind you that it takes two to tango. If the master may be called negligent for not making provision for the future, the slave can be called stupid, for lack of a better term, for entering into a relationship with a master who is negligent.>>

BTW, in case you're unfamiliar with Jack's poly, bi background, let me run down the people mentioned in this article: Patrick is Jack's slave of (now) roughly nine years. Michael was Jack's lover, not slave. Jack was crazy about him. When Michael subsequently walked away, it was a crushing blow. Linn is Jack's good friend, a member of Jack's Leather family, and former Master to Jack, for around five years.

*************************************

I'm sorry if you guys are running into gold diggers. I realize they exist, just as there are users, con artists and swindlers in any walk of life. They don't exist in my circle of friends, however.

If women who exploit your assets are the only women with whom you interact in real-time, it's time to ask yourselves if there's something specifically about *you* that's tolerating/welcoming such conduct and why.

I want to reiterate what I said before: Because D/s is NEGOTIATED, it's up to you to make sure that your finances are protected BEFORE you sign on that dotted line. Being submissive is not a license to be irresponsible.

If a domme wants a sugar daddy, then it's best for you to find out up front. That's a whole other role from being submissive.

Maybe I'm biased on this topic. My mother always used to lecture me while growing up that I should I should find a rich man. I always told her that money didn't buy happiness, I wanted to find a man I'd love, and I was busting my hump in school to ensure that I'd be able to be self-supporting.

~ Ti ~

(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/8/2005 4:19:42 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

I don't think the question is unasked...rather, you reworded it in not so gracious terms. Of course I'm talking about what happens when people reach their advanced years in this type of arrangement. If it's supposed to be the real deal now, why shouldn't things be just as sincere later on?


I think there's a couple things to look at.

One, is in BDSM relationships, long term relationships are the exception, not the rule. I believe that to the extent that I would say that finding a life partner AND a Dominant/submissive in the same person is damn near impossible, and you may have to make a choice as to WHICH of those is more important to you. It's not a pleasant thought but it's based in what's really going on out there.

The other is nature of that particular relationship. While there's a lot of shades of relationships in the lifestyle, I'll "assume" for the sake of brevity that the aging sub in question is either an alpha/life partner or a beta/secondary submissive to the Dominant. If there's a deep romantic/emotional connection then I can see the relationship adjusting as is natural as aging occurs. For someone who is beta and if there is not such a connection....I can see it becoming precarious ground whether the relationship adjusts or not. I can't see being able to swing a flogger when I'm 85 any more than an 85 year old partner could really take a heavy beating.

The reality is...that vanilla or kink, there are NO guarantees with relationships. Ever. Make sure you have a pension plan and a health care plan, take care of yourself both physically and mentally, plan for your future as if you were going to be single even if you are not. It's never too early to start (why do you think I am going back to school at this age?) and it's never too late. But it's something that everyone is ultimately responsible for taking care of themselves.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/8/2005 4:30:26 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05
say what? EVERY domme i have talked to asks how much $$ is in my pocket....in the first emails...ALL of them have...i figure it is just a female thing since females ARE miore hung up on "security" than males are. even my 3 wives did it..ya know?


Have you tried meeting people at events and munches? I don't know much about online but I can't recall ever hearing about that sort of conversation coming up so early in the offline world.

Even prodoms are only interested in "do you have the fee" rather than "how much do you possess?"


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to lonewolf05)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Owned Slaves Question - 9/8/2005 7:02:34 AM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		hello JW Sir. good day to Ya.
i have a full time Mistress. i am 24/7...but what i said IS --MY truth in MY experiences. even THIS one here asked me if i have enough money because She is NOT going to spend 1 nickel out of Her pocket on me. if "I" cannot pay for what i have to have, then i do without..completely.
She says all slaves are to be an asset not a liability...She will NOT spend anything on any slave as it is not Her responsibility to do so.
end of story. it's Her way or none.

take care
wolf



_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


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Profile   Post #: 20
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