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RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 9:56:29 AM   
SirWaverider


Posts: 48
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: offline 		DAMN!!! okay I understand now...one question..where did you find this I'd like to read more on this........

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 9:59:17 AM   
WickedKev


Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline 		20 Years in the Air Force, I have seen plenty of resentment coming from every conceivable angle. My one thought at the time was you can say all that you want only because we defend that right for you so go for it. Wars are not started by the military, but by politicans, big corporations, and religious fanatics. Unfortunatly, quite often it is the military that takes the brunt ofthe blame.

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 10:03:44 AM   
SirWaverider


Posts: 48
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedKev

My one thought at the time was you can say all that you want only because we defend that right for you so go for it. Wars are not started by the military, but by politicans, big corporations, and religious fanatics. Unfortunatly, quite often it is the military that takes the brunt ofthe blame.




BINGO!! this is something that not all people see nor understnad half the time and I totally agree with you Kev. If only people knew that. thanks for reading my mind......sometimes it's hard for me to put thoughts down the way it's supposed to be.

< Message edited by SirWaverider -- 9/7/2005 10:05:08 AM >

(in reply to WickedKev)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 12:26:24 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I'm pretty familiar with how the government works and the "disrespect" of the president might have something to do with the lies that were told to get us in this new Vietnam and the lack of support for the ordinary person that the he's shown. At least now we know why he fought to hard to keep the records of the meetings he held at the beginning of his term with oil company executives.
Thanks for that reply so I didn't have to try and say it (less effectively).
No one gets respect from me simply because they own a title. Everyone gets respect from me as a matter of courtesy, until they show me they are not deserving of that respect. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/7/2005 12:27:53 PM >

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(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 5:25:59 PM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline
quote:

Returning to the original post: It seems to me that you, Faramir, have incurred the wrath of someone who is a bit unbalanced. The emails you describe appear to be attempts to get under your skin. Considering the source, I would not consider this encounter to be a valid indicator of any kind of national sociocultural trend. You just crossed paths with a whacko.
That's my take on it, anyway.
Bob[/unquote]

To Faramir and SoccerMomSlave: Please just smile and have a nice day :)

How pathetic that vengeful person must be.

No, I don't witness hostility towards the military nor soldiers, but yes to the current administration's foriegn policy.

I do see hostility towards the traditional male. Big time.

take care, fawne


(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 9:42:17 PM   
gypsysoul


Posts: 70
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

I've noticed this current lately - a supressed rage/severe resentment on the part of some people (almost exclusively liberals but by no means true of all liberals).

There was a time in America where you could hate and spew venom at servicemembers without any fear of condemnation or reproach. You could give full expression to your resentment at the testorone laden, tough guys who think they are the real men - you could at least verbally get back at a part of America that epitomizes conventional ideas of masculinity.

That's not true now. Now, you have to be circumspect - you have to hate the sin and love the sinner. You have to be all against The Administration - but still support the troops.

Now, I am sure there are people who are against the administration but have no animosity against our servicemebers (I'm sorta in that camp), but I feel there are a lot of peple who resent the fuck out of the US military, resent the presumed masculine superiority of servicemembers, resent the adulation they receive - little pussy boys and angry girls who hate Marines and soldiers.

Anyone else feel this vibe too?


There may very well be people who resent the US military, but these could be those same people who resent police officers, firefighters, and others in authoritative positions. I can't STAND the Administration (bigtime liberal here); and while I don't feel animosity toward servicemen and servicewomen, I don't feel any special need to admire them, either. I assume that the armed forces are composed of people from a variety of backgrounds (except from wealthy families - just my opinion here) who enlisted for reasons ranging from a strong sense of patriotism to educational opportunities to having no other economic options. This may sound harsh, but most of the time, I look at them as people with jobs, although significantly more dangerous than mine. There are some bad people in every profession, every subculture, every workplace, and I'm sure the military doesn't have a shortage there. Nevertheless, I have to turn off the TV every time the local news covers the funeral of a serviceperson or I'll cry like a baby.

The news media looks for something different to broadcast/publish, so if you've seen anything on the news that makes you think liberals feel some open or closeted resentment against the military in general, it was probably some isolated protest and its publication/broadcast had more to do with ratings/circulation than with being representative.

(in reply to Faramir)
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RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 10:12:12 PM   
gypsysoul


Posts: 70
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedKev

My one thought at the time was you can say all that you want only because we defend that right for you so go for it. Wars are not started by the military, but by politicans, big corporations, and religious fanatics. Unfortunatly, quite often it is the military that takes the brunt ofthe blame.


I certainly agree with you that wars are started by big business and religion, etc. But that sort of negates that other line in there, in which you state "you can say all that you want only because we [military personnel] defend that right for you." I personally can't think of a war that the US has waged in order to protect the right to free speech in anything but an abstract way. The Bill of Rights (1789) didn't exist until after the Revolutionary War was over (1775-1783). And I think the War of 1812 was more of a war to protect American mercantilism than principles of democracy. Every other war seems to have more to do with land grabs and defending our land grabs, striking back when we've been struck, and staving off communism or dictatorships abroad. Correct me if I'm wrong... (that's probably an appropriate comment for this site)


(in reply to WickedKev)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/7/2005 10:49:58 PM   
gypsysoul


Posts: 70
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Had a curious thing happen the other day.

Got an email from a female dom here asking about my slave - had I "really" collared her (since we lived in different states) or was it just an online fantasy. I answered: we have three days together, four days apart, moving in together next month, yadda yadda. Then I get this email:

quote:

"I just collared soccermomslave so she now belongs to Me!...P.S. It takes three american soldiers to make one Iraqie soldier and it is still an awfully poor soldier at that!"


SMS got a very nasty email from this person as well, and then the profile was deleted.

So no big mystery - someone here is so hurt that I whacked their little pee-pee in the forums they made a fake profile and sent nastygrams - someone who has a big stake in lifestyle creds and being "realtime 24/7" blah blah blah.



OK, ok, I know I've already posted twice in a row, but Faramir packed too much into this one little topic, and I just have to throw in a little more.

The e-mail thing could be scary. Someone made a point of not capitalizing "American" but capitalizing "Iraqie [sic]". (Don't know if I put the sic in the right place). The spelling and case-inconsistency bother me, and then I get all pissed off at all Iraqi's because of this one person implying that there is some Iraqi superiority, and I think, well, fuck them, they ain't even ATTEMPTING to put down the insurgencies over there alone...

And then there's the forum pee-pee thing. I, for one, don't see any reason to read and post to fora that already say and agree with everything I feel. I love it when people get worked up on issues -- especially when their rants represent my side. But I love it more when someone articulates a totally opposite position that makes me think, reconsider.


(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 8:49:39 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I have to say, this attitude makes me puke. No one in Iraq is challenging my right to say whatever I want. If the military were defending the nation against a civil insurgency in the U.S. trying to install a dictatorship, then you'd have a point. But there isn't.

Whenever the military feels it's time to circle the wagons in the face of criticism, they start in with the "The only reason you can say that is because we defend your right to say it" crap. Please. Is that line something they teach in basic training or something? THE CONSTITUTION grants me the right to say what I want, and I'm grateful to people who defend THE CONSTITUTION. You'll find a lot of people higher on that list than the military.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedKev

My one thought at the time was you can say all that you want only because we defend that right for you so go for it.



< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/8/2005 8:51:38 AM >

(in reply to WickedKev)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 9:13:03 AM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline 		If they DO protect our rights or make us safer, they do it because we pay them to do that. It's their job. Worthy of appreciation, but not worthy of the maudlin fawning bestowed on them since we went to "war". If they like their job, good for them. To me, it deserves neither derision or praise. It surely doesn't deserve the kind of crap Faramir got from that one person. Faramir and others took the topic a step further, though, by complaining of what I call "insufficient worshipfulness". Believe it or not, I do understand this: I am a firefighter/EMT, so I occasionally meet people who want to treat me like I am part of some saintly group. I admit, sometimes I soak it up; mostly I try to keep it in perspective, though.

Bob

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 9:31:17 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

If they DO protect our rights or make us safer, they do it because we pay them to do that. It's their job. Worthy of appreciation, but not worthy of the maudlin fawning bestowed on them since we went to "war". If they like their job, good for them. To me, it deserves neither derision or praise. It surely doesn't deserve the kind of crap Faramir got from that one person. Faramir and others took the topic a step further, though, by complaining of what I call "insufficient worshipfulness". Believe it or not, I do understand this: I am a firefighter/EMT, so I occasionally meet people who want to treat me like I am part of some saintly group. I admit, sometimes I soak it up; mostly I try to keep it in perspective, though.

Bob



To quote one of my favorite poets "Single men in barracks don't grow into plaster saints."



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(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 9:35:18 AM   
WickedKev


Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsysoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedKev

My one thought at the time was you can say all that you want only because we defend that right for you so go for it. Wars are not started by the military, but by politicans, big corporations, and religious fanatics. Unfortunatly, quite often it is the military that takes the brunt ofthe blame.


Well one springs to mind and that is against Nazi Germany. My father who is american fought in Korea and yes I know big buisness interests there but for the ordinary soldier/marine/seaman and airman were defendiing the south koreons. But as for going back to the War of Independence afraid I would have been on the otherside >;)

(in reply to gypsysoul)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 9:41:41 AM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline 		For some reason, that brought to mind the notorious Plastercasters from the late 60s...so very very far off topic, it ain't silly. Just wanted to share that brainglitch...thanx and sorry.

Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

If they DO protect our rights or make us safer, they do it because we pay them to do that. It's their job. Worthy of appreciation, but not worthy of the maudlin fawning bestowed on them since we went to "war". If they like their job, good for them. To me, it deserves neither derision or praise. It surely doesn't deserve the kind of crap Faramir got from that one person. Faramir and others took the topic a step further, though, by complaining of what I call "insufficient worshipfulness". Believe it or not, I do understand this: I am a firefighter/EMT, so I occasionally meet people who want to treat me like I am part of some saintly group. I admit, sometimes I soak it up; mostly I try to keep it in perspective, though.

Bob



To quote one of my favorite poets "Single men in barracks don't grow into plaster saints."




(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 10:39:12 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

For some reason, that brought to mind the notorious Plastercasters from the late 60s...so very very far off topic, it ain't silly. Just wanted to share that brainglitch...thanx and sorry.



It's cool. We aren't gods and we aren't devils. We're men who made a choice.

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(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 11:41:28 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Is that Rudyard Kipling?

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 11:58:59 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Is that Rudyard Kipling?


Got it ONE!

It's from the poem "Tommy."

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall
be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the
wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the
wind.


Rudy was one poet who had been there and done that. Everyone who I've introduced him to who has "seen the elephant" found themselves nodding and saying something like "Fuckin' right on!"

I used to post a few lines from his "The 'Eathen" on my office door. It let the potential students know what they were in for.

The young recruit is silly -- 'e thinks o' suicide;
'E's lost 'is gutter-devil; 'e 'asn't got 'is pride;
But day by day they kicks 'im, which 'elps 'im on a bit,
Till 'e finds 'isself one mornin' with a full an' proper kit.

I don't think it helped my enrollment


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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Resentment Against the Military - 9/8/2005 12:09:00 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I've always liked "And the Band Played 'Waltzing Matilda'" (about ANZAC Day). There are a lot of moving lines in it, but my favorite is this:

quote:

And so now every April, I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me.
And I see my old comrades, how proudly they march,
Reviving old dreams of past glory,
And the old men march slowly, all bones stiff and sore,
They're tired old heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
And I ask meself the same question.


The fact that "question" doesn't rhyme makes it very powerful.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 37
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