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[Poll]

Would Boycotting Gasoline work?


Yes it would help
  25% (11)
No it would not at all
  18% (8)
Let's try and see what happens
  27% (12)
It won't make a significant difference
  16% (7)
This sucks, but I have no choice, can't boycott
  11% (5)


Total Votes : 43


(last vote on : 5/29/2006 11:08:42 PM)
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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 12:10:20 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

it would make a great message to the companies..wether or not they do anything is on them...I say we all go for it...it's not illegal or nothing so no real harm can come of it.....
Thanks for the positive outlook. I'm with you, definitely going to use less from now on (even if the prices fall back down). M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 12:13:44 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

If American people would use just as much energy as European do (the ratio is about 3:1), this would decrease the global demand for oil by about 15%, and oil prices certainly wouldn't have reached 40$ yet
Hey Frenchpet, this is a great idea really, but must tell you that I believe the only reason Europeans don't use more is because things are significantly more expensive over there, not because they are more socioeconomically or environmentally aware. So, I suppose the impossibly rising prices are a lesson for everyone. M
P.S.
quote:

ragdoll
i think that even though most people are annoyed/angry... most people don't actually take "action to change" things even when they are angry.. i don't think most people are motivated... i guess.... to take action like that. .... i think a lot of people sort of complain.. maybe because they don't believe it's possible to change the situation (so they don't want to bother trying) or maybe because they are too busy with other things and so the gas prices aren't their first crusade..

i dunno................ i'm not really knowledgeable about this kinda stuff! so... i probably shouldn't have even responded to this topic at all.. ~
I apreciate your input Ragdoll.
I think that people will want to do something when filling up their tanks vs buying food to serve their families becomes the choice (and I think we're getting close to that now).
Like you, I'm not sufficiently informed about this matter, but started this thread to maybe watch and learn. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/7/2005 12:19:28 PM >


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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 12:22:11 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

Americans calling anyone, even profiteering corporations, "piggish" is laughably ironic. Boycott gasoline? What next, diet and exercise?
Bob
Hey funnyman, can we stay with the oil companies program? M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 12:35:26 PM   
DesertRat


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Okay, back on topic...I disagree, M. I think the fact that things are more expensive over there is part of the reason for their more disciplined usage, but they are also less driven to buybuybuy than we are. Since the end of WWII, overconsumption has been a cornerstone of American culture. We measure our quality of life by the quantity and size of our toys. In the 50s and 60s it was fun and even kinda cool. We never reeled it in or toned it down, though. Now it's like a mad compulsion. We don't seem to be willing or able to have any self-control, and we really need to. I don't see it happening.

Bob

< Message edited by DesertRat -- 9/7/2005 12:39:17 PM >

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 12:42:14 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

I disagree, M. I think the fact that things are more expensive over there is part of the reason for their more disciplined usage, but they are also less driven to buybuybuy than we are
It is possible they developed some discipline as a result of needing to, but having been in one or 2 places there, have seen why it's impossible to buy all the things one might want.
For example, France has awesome deserts, but you have to pay like $15 for 2 pieces of those deserts, lol. Have you been to those chic (European) styled restaurants that you have to pay out the nose, than leave and go to TGI Friday's because you're still hungry?
Gasoline is impossibly expensive in Portugal; I wouldn't fill up to go shopping often, if half of my shopping money is going in the tank, and the half left is only enough for an imported Tshirt. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/7/2005 12:45:48 PM >


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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 1:10:14 PM   
frenchpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

If American people would use just as much energy as European do (the ratio is about 3:1), this would decrease the global demand for oil by about 15%, and oil prices certainly wouldn't have reached 40$ yet
Hey Frenchpet, this is a great idea really, but must tell you that I believe the only reason Europeans don't use more is because things are significantly more expensive over there, not because they are more socioeconomically or environmentally aware. So, I suppose the impossibly rising prices are a lesson for everyone. M

You're right. It's not the socioeconomically or environmentally awareness that makes the difference. The main reason is the cost of energy in European history.
Most European cities were founded 700 to 900 years ago (all villages around where I live are about 8 centuries old, most major cities are about 20 centuries old in the roman area of influence), which was a time of buoyant economical development, until the Black Death in the mid 14th century (Europe lost 30% of its population due to WMD - biolobical weapons).
Which means, at a time when energy was incomparably more expensive than now. The happy few had a horse, all the others had to walk, do most of the work themselve and sometimes with an ox. Most forest were chopped down at this period of time to build the new cities, to a dramatic level. Energy has always been a problem, except for a short period of time (roughly the 19th century, corresponding to the first industrial revolution, because there was plenty of coal) which wasn't long enough to affect the general architecture of the cities (or even the architecture of houses, always well insulated), which is the main factor of energy consumption. In short, european cities are very dense. Going from home to work needs little energy.

When America was created, the main sources of energy wasn't wood and cattle anymore, it was coal, and soon after that, oil. USA had plenty of both. Energy was cheap, space was cheap, why bother making dense cities ?
Why bother making energy efficient cars ?
Why bother building well-insulated houses ?
Why bother heating only to 18 or 19°C when you can have 23 or 24 ?
Why bother living close to where you work when you can go there by car for peanuts ?
Why bother going to (high)school / university / work by foot or by bike when you can be there in a 5 minutes ride by car ?
Why bother making efficient common transportations (with some noticeable exceptions) when everybody has a car ?
Etc...

It could be time to rethink about all those questions, because soon most of 9 billion people (expected max population around 2050) will want their car, air conditioning, post-computers etc. There is simply not enough energy on Earth for that if we don't make things more energy efficient, except if we start using coal like mad (which would not be an excellent idea). OR, if before that efficient controlled fusion is available, which only the most optimistic people believe. In Europe we also have to think how to use less energy. Using solar heating systems is very significant. The new generations of car also use significantly less energy. So do the new generations of household appliances. Etc.


But anyway, all this is about a very old problem, energy. The real problem of the 21st century is water. And THAT will be trickier. The question is always the same though : If we put an excessive stress on our environment, we're over. It was the case for the Mayan empire, for the Vikings in Greenland, for the early civilization of the Easter Island etc. All gone. The only difference is that we're now a global village, using all the resources available on Earth. If we try to use more, as the people I mentionned, we, or our children, are in very big trouble.

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 1:18:03 PM   
frenchpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
For example, France has awesome deserts, but you have to pay like $15 for 2 pieces of those deserts, lol. Have you been to those chic (European) styled restaurants that you have to pay out the nose, than leave and go to TGI Friday's because you're still hungry?

Ha! you just fell in a tourist trap ! ;)
Actually you're right 10$ is a very common price for a dessert, but you can still find places were you can eat and drink and eat and drink and eat for hours, just for 25$. And then you can't eat the next day. I don't know of any such place in France, but in Spain and Italy. But the difference in prices is the difference in taxes which means the difference in the services provided by the state (school, hospitals, public transportation... and even TV nnetworks).

edit cuz I had wrotten "axes" instead of "taxes". Sometimes it hurts just the same, though.

< Message edited by frenchpet -- 9/7/2005 5:08:34 PM >

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 1:45:55 PM   
luvdragonx


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I live in Texas. It is approx. 268, 601 sq mi. with an approx population of 20,851,820
Great Britain is approx 83,896 sq mi., pop apprx 60,441,457
France is 339,908 sq mi, approx pop 60,656,178.

What I've always figured is that the higher population density of a country tends toward localized supply and demand. Homes are smaller to make room for other homes? Smaller homes mean smaller kitchens. Small kitchen, small fridge. Small fridge, less food it can hold. So you would have to make more trips to the store. Good thing the store is a few blocks away. The groceries fit in the basket of your bike or you could carry/push them. Good public transportation is a must with so many people - if everyone owned a car and drove everywhere, would traffic ever move?

Here in Texas, in the city I live in, it is virtually impossible to live a 'Petrol free' lifestyle. Your job won't be within walking distance. Maybe withing biking distance. Grocery stores are too far away to make the trip more than once a week (to save gas), so you have to have a big refrigerator. More electricity.....you see where I'm going.

I would love to see communities contract some - to get away from the suburban sprawl that largely contributes to the fuel inefficiency. If there were local growers markets here, I'd gladly go there to support the local growers, and possibly discourage big chain stores from trucking in produce and goods from farther away. I'd love to see public places- schools, parks, etc. - located in no-drive zones where pedestrians can walk freely and safely. I believe it would have to start with local city government to implement changes like this, and I don't see it happening anytime soon unfortunately. I did see a documentary of sorts on a community somewhere in the southwest who did just that - they set up an Automobile free community - bikes and feet only, thank you. Every member of the community has a purpose - doctors, teachers, engineers, carpenters, farmers - so they are fairly self contained.


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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 3:27:37 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


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Not addressed to luvdragonx...just the last available reply button.
The bottom line is that citizens of the USA are spoiled. We have spent years and years needing more and more things. Bigger, better, new and improved. Status, status, status. Bigger house, bigger car, bigger tv designer clothing, $150 tennis shoes. Nobody ever believed that I could raise two kids on My own with $24,000 per year in income. I owned My home, paid My utilities, we never went hungry, and I even had the luxury of cable tv. And yes, I do consider cable tv to be a luxury. It is a very nice thing to have, but it is not necessary. Yet, for most, it is an automatic. Why is that? That is just one little example. I spent years in the collection and fraud business. I can't tell you how many people I counseled and explained budgets to. No family needs to spend $800 per month on groceries. They do if they want to eat steak and buy the name brands. The waste and th elack of forethought bothers Me a lot. But it happens all the time. And until people get a major wake-up call and realize that they can't have everything they want all the time, with no consequences, things will not change.
So what do most people do? Immediately turn to the "big government" and complain and whine. Why don't you stop this? Why don't you do something to protect My frivolous and (in many cases) unecessary lifestyle? It's not fair! sob...sob...sob...
I am proud to be a citizen of the USA, but I also think the largest percentage of our population has abjugated their personal responsibility.
The basic tenets are supply and demand. Until we stop being so wasteful and expecting somebody else to make everything alright, things are not going to improve.
This oil situation is a perfect example of how we can wake up and begin to make some important changes in our consumption habits. Compalin all you wish about the big manufacturer's, the corporate conglomerates...if you don't support them, they will go out of business, or get a wake up call themselves. All the complaining and demands to "fix this" are in our own hands. That is what our representative governemnt is supposed to be all about. We have a lot more power that most people realize. When we talk about the government, we are talking about ourselves! How and why did we forget that along the prosperous way?
Just do it.
*walk away shaking head and realizing that many people are right...it won't help in the end, because not enough people are paying attention. When it really hits home, instead of taking any responsibility for their own part in all this, they will get angry and complain about why no one stopped this before it inconvenienced themselves.


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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 4:36:47 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

But anyway, all this is about a very old problem, energy. The real problem of the 21st century is water. And THAT will be trickier. The question is always the same though : If we put an excessive stress on our environment, we're over. It was the case for the Mayan empire, for the Vikings in Greenland, for the early civilization of the Easter Island etc. All gone. The only difference is that we're now a global village, using all the resources available on Earth. If we try to use more, as the people I mentionned, we, or our children, are in very big trouble.
Thanks for the history lesson in the reply, I apreciate it; I liked this better than the sound of we use less because we already know better. M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 5:44:38 PM   
UtopianRanger


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Most have probably already looked at this web site, but I'll post a link anyway. It gives a good overview on what the rest of the country/Canada is paying, and tells you where the best bargains are.

http://www.gasbuddy.com/


- The Ranger




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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 6:44:59 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

Most have probably already looked at this web site, but I'll post a link anyway. It gives a good overview on what the rest of the country/Canada is paying, and tells you where the best bargains are.
http://www.gasbuddy.com/
Thanks, but did you vote? What do you think about the boycotting? M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 6:46:59 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

This oil situation is a perfect example of how we can wake up and begin to make some important changes in our consumption habits. Compalin all you wish about the big manufacturer's, the corporate conglomerates...if you don't support them, they will go out of business, or get a wake up call themselves. All the complaining and demands to "fix this" are in our own hands. That is what our representative governemnt is supposed to be all about. We have a lot more power that most people realize. When we talk about the government, we are talking about ourselves! How and why did we forget that along the prosperous way?
Just do it.
You are right Dusty,
There is a much bigger lesson I'm learning in reading this. Thanks for the ideas. M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 7:18:31 PM   
FreshMeatDFW


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Ideas to protest high gasoline prices

1) Hold breath until one turns blue
2) Repeal the law of gravity
3) Join the Flat Earth Society
4) Interview the Loch Ness Monster
5) Boycott all petroleum based products - oil, plastics, polymers
6) Email all your friends to boycott Wal-Mart, their municipal water
supply, and the local police.
7) Write your congressman to name Tyronosaurus Rex as an endangered
species.
8) Write the mayor of New York that we should return the Statue of
Liberty to the French.

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 8:43:38 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

1) Hold breath until one turns blue
Thanks for the funny answers, but I can't recommend that, especially to the control freaks who may pass out and would no longer be able to tell anyone what to do, and how to do it. M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 9:06:14 PM   
softandshy


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i personally would act on a boycott because it agrees with my other convictions (more directed to concern with the environment than with gas prices); however, i do not believe most people will act on their beliefs, sacrificing comfort, until prices have risen higher yet.


Frankly, i believe that private cars (not emergency vehicles clearly) should be reserved for those who cannot travel other ways due to physical inability or age. Exception could also be made for those who need to travel across oceans, although i feel that should be limited, particularly as much business can be done over the Internet (when we need to we will make it a more secure venue). We have an excellent public transit system in many metropolitan areas, and we have the potential for intracontinental public transit as well as public transit in rural areas. This can be used for transportation while heavily burdened or across significant distance. Does it take more time? Yes, of course, but it does also provide a healthier pace of life and lessens the impact of pollution (storms like Katrina have been increasing steadily in number and force due to damage to the ozone layer, how much longer can we go without recognizing that?). Daily travel or light transportation can be done by bicycle with trailer, or on foot. It really is quite reasonable to cycle ten or fifteen miles to work and back once it becomes customary. It is healthier, and perhaps we would develop a better appreciation of/sensitivity to the larger world (natural and man made) if we were exposed a bit more. In the long term this would also save expense in other areas: roadway and bridge maintenance, the cleaning of buildings, repair to historic monuments, etc.

The crux of the problem, though, lies in people unwilling to surrender the convenience.

In case anyone is wondering, yes, i do practice what i preach.

Another idea for you BlkTallFullfig (i do realize i'm more radical than most people like with regard to the environment): during the work week you might try carpooling both to work and for groceries/shopping. You'll lose some time but it does actually save gas.

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 9:41:46 PM   
softandshy


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Incidentally, in my own upside-down world view, Dom/mes get to ride in rickshaws. BDSM for a cleaner, greaner Earth!

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/7/2005 10:14:49 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

during the work week you might try carpooling both to work and for groceries/shopping
Thanks for your great ideas. I work kind of long distance from my home, so have actively tried to alternate driving with a coworker who lives in the same state when we're on together, so that only one car is driven; or she drives more in the summer because her car is smaller, and I drive more in the winter because my car is bigger and safer in the snow.
Yes you are more radical than most; I would have a problem with having the law tell me when I could/and could not drive. M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/8/2005 12:16:01 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

It's about biodiesel as an alternative to mainstream gasoline. I know a few people running such an initiative here in Canada and believe me, it's real. You can read more about it in this article entitled Biodiesel gaining steam as alternative fuel source.
At the risk of pissing off people against government regulation, what will stop the people who initiate this from screwing us over (just like the oil giants are doing now) if the prices are not regulated to reflect cost/production only?
It has been stated over and over again, the only reason gas prices are so high is because the people in control of it know we need it, and will use buy it no matter the cost because there's no real alternative to riding cars and heating homes. Will biodiesel people have any better a conscience? M

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RE: Would Boycotting Gasoline work? - 9/8/2005 2:04:18 AM   
frenchpet


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I'd like to remind you that oil is not expensive yet. Oil is one of the main raw material we use. I'm typing on a plastic keyboard, my screen and the wires contain plastic, CDs are made of oil, so are 20 different other objects around me. If we can't make plastics anymore, I don't know how we'll make all these objects, and fertilizers and...
The fact that we are burning this essential raw material to get most of the world's energy instead of getting energy from other sources (ethanol, vegetal oil, wood, agricultural waste, urban waste, sun, wind, water running down, water currents in the seas, nuclear fission, geothermal power) means that oil is still considered as plentiful.
If you own a car that runs on oil (and use it), oil isn't expensive yet.
If your mileage is less than 50 miles per gallon, it means that you still really consider oil dirt cheap.

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