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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Is it just set up in such a way that we naturally become scientific, but because of the way its set up (at least as we are able to interact with it) our science and so our understanding can never be complete.

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ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
But like my Santa Claus analogy no one has stepped up and shown me their god; so while I can't prove the negative, the positive proof for the existence of God is also absent.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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ORIGINAL: MzMia

CelticLord, how many non-believers do you think cry out "Help me GOD",
or "GOD" I am dying, or something similar as they leave this world?

The question is its own answer. By the terms you have established, the answer is necessarily zero in all cases.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Existentialism removes all excuses and alibis; there's no inner self or meaning to life, and it follows, thus, life is what you make of it, as opposed to pre-ordained.

And, this is entirely the issue with religion: it provides an alibi. You're in a joint venture where you share the risk of failure with a partner called god.

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Not really, as I am still open to proof about god.

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ORIGINAL: Rule
What do you expect instead?

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ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels
I don't have to prove to anyone the existence of God.

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ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

I've never understood why agnostics and athiests have to be so insulting towards people that have spiritual or religious beliefs.  It seems horribly obnoxious and short sighted (not to mention ironically intolerant).

C~

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

A more interesting question I find, is whether we only have science and can use it because we are a part of the cosmos in the first place - and more than that, whether we can only ever have a limited understanding of the cosmos based on our science because of the sort of part of the cosmos that we are.

Is it just set up in such a way that we naturally become scientific, but because of the way its set up (at least as we are able to interact with it) our science and so our understanding can never be complete.

Which is no argument for a "God of the gaps" by the way. Just a poorly expressed pondering.

E

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ORIGINAL: Zensee

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ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

I've never understood why agnostics and athiests have to be so insulting towards people that have spiritual or religious beliefs.  It seems horribly obnoxious and short sighted (not to mention ironically intolerant).

C~

It has something to do with suffering thousands of years as victims of faith induced ignorance, violence and oppression. I resent the waste of human potential, historical and contemporary. The faithful have had their turn and, quite frankly, they have fucked things up colossally for everyone. Time to stick a cork in it, get in the back seat and let the infidels have a go.

Just be thankful they are merely obnoxious. At present there are no plans for an inquisition or unholy war - but don't push your luck.


Z.

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ORIGINAL: joanus
But I do believe there is something maybe not a sentient being but there is some cosmic fulcrum that keep our world in balance.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I think it says a lot that some of the anti spiritualists, keep going back to misdefining Christianity and attacking it, and pretend that they have even addressed the issue of if there is a God or not.  That says a lot about thier grasp and use of science.  Any religion can be shown to be not 100% true.  Religion has very little if anything at all to do with God (or the Divine).

The existance of science does not disprove God at all.  There is no mental difficulty whatsoever in believing that God set up the sceintific rules.  That the universe was Intellignetly Designed to evolve and produce life which evolves and gains in conciousness is not hard to grasp.  Pretty much all scientists agree that irregular quantum events do occur, and if enough people jump from a building eventually some of them will fly/ or walk through a wall.  The wierd thing is that Quantum events are affected by observation, so perhaps prayer/faith might result in a change at the quantum level.  Science can not even prove that a particle has mass and moves, yet accepts on faith that they do, they have to move right?  The whole system is based on an unprovable fact, that particles have mass and move, thier actions creating our reality.

Perhaps Santa Cluas is a spirit/feeling that gets some parents to prepare a magical day for their small children's enjoyment.  Then when the kids get older, they help entertain the younger ones, and learn a lesson about life---Things are not allways exactly the way the seem, and it is enjoyable to work to make others happy.  Somehow the image of an 6 year old super pissed off and traumatized by learning Santa is his Dad, being a defining moment in his life, makes me chuckle.

None of you were oppressed by Religion for thousands of years, I doubt any one here is even 80 years old.  Religion was absolutly indesspensible in the formation of human Culture, its the root of it.  Science only came into existance through Christianity (which was the result of 10,000 + years of theological evolution)  and the Reformation, which are deeply tied together.  Dawkins? (or whoever, its a common quote)  says "if it wasn't for religon we would be 1500 years ahead", but that is BS.  If it were not for religion we would still be grunting in caves throwing feces. 

We saw enough of the brutality of the Athiest states last century, to even pretend that they are not just as brutal as religions have (at times) been.