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RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 3:26:21 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Now here comes a book that gives them philosophical justification.

Extremists latch onto an idea? 'Nothing new to see here. You shouldn't be surprised. In fact, considering your view on international relations, you should be well versed in this scenario.

Ultimately, though, it's not the book that gives them justification; it's the research/studies undertaken by various scientific bodies.

The vast majority of us do not understand global warming, so we're relying on the research undertaken by respected bodies. In the event you choose to disregard their research, that's fine - your call - but using a book to justify your position? 'Not very impressive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Expect to see their arguments showing up on in the media, and on the forums over the next couple of years.

Why not? They have a point of view, so get it out there for people to take or leave. 'All in a day's work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I'd really not like to get bogged down in whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change "exists" or not, but rather, on the political impact of that belief system existing.

Firmhand, of course there will be people who don't understand global warming but nevertheless will use it as a tool to aid their anti-capitalist agenda; likewise, large corporations will be putting press releases out right, left and centre aimed at demonising those who view the environment as a genuine concern.

What's new here? Absolutely nothing. There's an idea out there and it's been used as a tool to aid an agenda, so the trick is to either do your own research (which I doubt you have the equipment to undertake), or listen to that which is coming out of respected scientific bodies.

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Post #: 41

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 3:37:42 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Is liberal democracy responsible for Global Warming/Climate change, if you are a believer in such?

You'd have to define 'liberal democracy' and when you believe it came to the fore as a political system. Assuming liberal democracy is prevalent in the West and Japan; and assuming you can trace its roots as a political system to either the United States or England and the principles of limited monarchy, then we're talking around what? 1750 perhaps.

Well, since 1750, Britain has produced more carbon emissions than any other nation on the planet. The United States is rapidly catching up. Germany is in the top three or four, although you could argue Germany adopted an authoritarian style until 1920.

You couldn't pin this on liberal democracy in a million years, but it's legitimate to say that industrialisation, and the capitalism underpinning it, is a key factor in global warming (assuming you believe global warming is a genuine problem).

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Post #: 42

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 4:42:30 AM

SeeksOnlyOne

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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~fr~

just a thought.....would the warming be occurring no matter what had happened on earth? say we still rode horse and buggys?

we really cant say.

and for the record, its not warmer in georgia either.

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Post #: 43

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 7:57:11 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
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Does anybody remember Our Man Flint? Clearly a movie way ahead of its time- done in the 60's with James Coburn as superspy Derek Flint- had to defeat a cabal of scientists who controlled the weather and decided that they should take over the world and convert people into useful scientists. Sounds much more entertaining than this tripe cooked up by some disgruntled scientists (I'm one, doesn't mean that I think we should take over the world though.) who are desperate to make a living.

Firm if you really want to see the world change- then maybe it's time to get on the GCC bandwagon. Because the companies that derive the most benefit from denying GCC are the large oil companies and current energy suppliers. These are the sources for the idea that the sky is falling- that moving away from oil and other fossil fuels will cause an economic calamity. However, the basis for that economic calamity is much, much shakier than the basis for GCC. Since there have been ignored costs for years with fossil fuels, it's quite possible that replacements will be less expensive if we actually take into account the cost of CO2 generation. Just because economists haven't been able to solve the problem of the commons (referenced earlier in this thread) doesn't mean that these costs shouldn't be accounted for. It may be too hard for economists to solve, but it's not too hard a problem for somebody else to take a crack at.

While going away from fossil fuels may be an economic calamity for oil companies and existing utility companies- but for the rest of us? This country has traditionally done not too badly when there's a real paradigm shift- should be a good time for job and wealth creation. But that also means that the current top dogs won't be leading the pack any longer, which in my view, is a very good thing....And according to one of your posts- to you too.

Sam

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

Post #: 44

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 8:06:35 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Moaning... If you want to go to the Church of Denialism... .

Me? It's the end of the world as I knew it :-) .

I'm with ya on this one kittinSol. Some will never face reality until they are shoveling snow in Tahiti or burning up in the Arctic as the dead polar bears wash up onto the shore. But the good news for the deniers is that there will be no one left alive to say "I told you so"

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Post #: 45

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 9:37:33 AM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
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     You are missing the big secret here. People have told me quit smoking (drinking, chasing women, select Y/your favorite vice here) or you are gonna die. Depending on one's cosmic view of the world with VERY few exceptions, that has, and will happen to everyone.
     No one yet has told me "this is the key to eternal life" yes, religion's claim it, but death and some transition always seems to be a requirement to get there.
      Live life to its fullest, and know that each and every day has the potential to be the best day that Y/you have ever had in Y/your life. Strange as it may seem, that decision is entirely in Y/your hands.

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Post #: 46

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 9:45:02 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I'd really not like to get bogged down in whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change "exists" or not, but rather, on the political impact of that belief system existing.

What's caused global warming? Capitalism and its irresponsibility towards natural resources. i.e. using the earth as if it is a free resource to harvest and pollute.

You high lighted authoritarianism as though there is an agenda by those that claim something needs to be done but capitalism has always been authoritarian to its victims. What has changed now, is that the winners of capitalism have to modify their behaviour or suffer the same conequences as its victims. This issue has nothing to do with liberal democracy or any other type of government, it has to do with realizing that the earth and its resources is not a free and renewable asset which people can exploit as much as they want regardless of the destruction they cause.

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Post #: 47

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 11:00:57 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

        Eyes on the road, Firm, and no steering with your knee. The book sounds hilarious.  A couple of mad scientist types want to appoint the dictators for the planet. Didn't I see this on a Get Smart re-run?


       What I find interesting in the whole debate, and in microcosm in this thread, is the unwillingnes to separate the facts from the particular theory. The activists have gone so far as to co-opt any terminology that might help the confuddled puzzle it out.   There was a time when you could say 'climate change' and split the difference between the "global warming crisis" man has caused vs. the fact this planet goes through cycles in it's climate and that the times, they are a'changing. They took away the words that could be used to disagree. Pretty fucking Orwellian how that happens.

      So let's do it this way. We have side A that says "the climate is changing." Side B is saying "the climate is changing because..." (also sides C-11Q, but I'm not talking about them).   Side B has a political agenda.

      This planet is billions of years old and in a constant process of change. It's been incredibly hot, and incredibly cold, many times in the past. Why would anyone pretend to care about the data from a single cycle of ice? How stupid must the activists think their audience is, to look at such mathematical masturbation and say "Carbon levels have NEVER been higher?"

       Centralized, authoritarian, control would be the worst way for our civilization to adapt to a dramatic change in climate. If this is a climate jump, instead of an overanalyzed bump, we are going to need some serious innovation in a hurry. Competition drives that.

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Post #: 48

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 11:28:47 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

     You are missing the big secret here. People have told me quit smoking (drinking, chasing women, select Y/your favorite vice here) or you are gonna die. Depending on one's cosmic view of the world with VERY few exceptions, that has, and will happen to everyone.
     No one yet has told me "this is the key to eternal life" yes, religion's claim it, but death and some transition always seems to be a requirement to get there.
      Live life to its fullest, and know that each and every day has the potential to be the best day that Y/you have ever had in Y/your life. Strange as it may seem, that decision is entirely in Y/your hands.

Here in lies your problem...You just don't fucking care....It's no big deal there are many who agree with you.

I loved to smoke, adored it, rolled in it till it covered me like a dog in feces, it was my hobby, it made me a better man,....I had to quit.

You are right in that no one including Christ lives forever. You are but a speck of dust in the scheme of it all. You will gladly mortgage your own future as well as that of your children to live comfortably today. You are correct in that the decision is in your hands. And you are selfish. No big deal, apparently there are many who are in 100% complete agreement with you. Your kids, family or friends may not even value your company or friendship so why quit smoking? who wants to have 100% use of their lungs or stamina or the potential of a healthy future? Who cares about the ramifications of emphysema, heart problems or lung cancer? Hell, you probably don't even believe that smoking is bad for your health.

Why should we even begin to care about the quality of the planet that we leave behind? It's okay to explain to those future generations that there are no fish or wildlife and that we trashed or lands, waters and air because they were an expendable resource that had no value. That we didn't believe that we could be responsible for having any affect on our climate.

Firm and others will put out anything without regard to the truth that will by any means discount the efforts of those who "think green." In his mind picking up trash might hurt your back...I'm sure he feels that recyling causes more polution than it cures and is a complete waste of time. I'm sure he would advocate dumping your shit into a lake or the sky...What could possibly be the harm?

All of you who are in this camp have no foresight....Or maybe you been so blinded by the hate that you possess for the other side that it has totally skewed and obscured your vision in such a manner that you have become unable to discern the appropriate actions that should be taken. It is cheaper to dispose of plastic bags in a land fill than to attempt to recycle them...It is cheaper for farmers to use the most effective pesticides and to simply ignore their effect on the surrounding wildlife and ecosystems. It would make American Industry more competitive if they could just flush all of their waste into our land, skies and waters.

All of this time you have been unaware that there is a cost for trying to be a good steward to our planet? Of course there is...Are you blind? Is there a "hidden and corrupt" agenda?...I guess it is possible. But let me tell you this, "The agenda" has made for a better world for those of us who place value on such things. But go on spew lies, hate and filth. I can't imagine how it can make someone feel better or warmer to strongly argue against the idea of global warming....I am not a global scientist and neither are any of you...You cling to the views of the minority and any thought no matter where it comes from that will support your political views....Why is it so important? Where is the harm in trying to reduce our emissions? Are we not the ones that will ultimately benefit from not breathing in so much crap?

It really is sad. When one is no longer to have a rational thought, a conversation or to follow an appropriate course of action because they have allowed their own wells (minds) to have become poisoned. An appropriate metaphor.....I am Jack's total lack of surprise.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/9/2008 12:18:43 PM >

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Post #: 49

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 11:35:32 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
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Nature follows a balance. Humanity creates an imbalance, humanity dies off due to imbalance and the balance is restored. I hardly think anyone here has to worry that the world is going to end because of them. It’s the people on islands in the pacific I feel sorry for, to have your island submerged by the actions of others, how cruel and unjust this world is but that’s doorbells for ya.

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Post #: 50

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 11:44:22 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



      So let's do it this way. We have side A that says "the climate is changing." Side B is saying "the climate is changing because..." (also sides C-11Q, but I'm not talking about them).   Side B has a political agenda.

      This planet is billions of years old and in a constant process of change. It's been incredibly hot, and incredibly cold, many times in the past. Why would anyone pretend to care about the data from a single cycle of ice? How stupid must the activists think their audience is, to look at such mathematical masturbation and say "Carbon levels have NEVER been higher?"

Hey Rich, I don't usually like to buy into a ton of shit....I consider myself to be a skeptic of what much the Government has put forth....This came from science. There was no agenda. I am not a scientist nor do I have any knowledge of all of the data that must be accumulated to reach a conclusion as to what the "appropriate" temperature of this planet should be at any given period in time.

This is one thing that I do believe....The people who have reached these conclusions, that have been for the most part fairly widely accepted, do possess that kind of knowledge. They are fully aware that there has been temp shifts in the past....Why do you think that because you read that the temps of this planet have changed in the past that this would not be accounted for in the model that scientists are looking at today?

I would believe you if the scientist were to say that we have no explanation as to why temps in the past have warmed or cooled....I read an article that accounted for the change of temps in the 1400's???

The end all beat all....(See my post above if it is deemed worthy) Where exactly is the harm in attempting to monitor and reduce our emissions? There has always been a cost associated with living green or trying to be better stewards of our environment...What specifically is your problem?

This is open to all.....WHAT SPECIFICALLY ARE YOU ISSUES WITH TRYING TO REDUCE THE CRAP WE PUT INTO THE EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/9/2008 12:08:28 PM >

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Post #: 51

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 11:48:26 AM

KenDckey

Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

What's caused global warming? Capitalism and its irresponsibility towards natural resources. i.e. using the earth as if it is a free resource to harvest and pollute.

You high lighted authoritarianism as though there is an agenda by those that claim something needs to be done but capitalism has always been authoritarian to its victims. What has changed now, is that the winners of capitalism have to modify their behaviour or suffer the same conequences as its victims. This issue has nothing to do with liberal democracy or any other type of government, it has to do with realizing that the earth and its resources is not a free and renewable asset which people can exploit as much as they want regardless of the destruction they cause.

OK So lets assume that you are correct that capitalism created global warming. then why is it that the other planets in our solar system have temps raising at the same percentage rate as Earth. How did capitalism do that?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 52

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 11:50:32 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

Intergalactic butterflies

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Post #: 53

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 11:56:56 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

       Eyes on the road, Firm, and no steering with your knee. The book sounds hilarious.  A couple of mad scientist types want to appoint the dictators for the planet. Didn't I see this on a Get Smart re-run?

      What I find interesting in the whole debate, and in microcosm in this thread, is the unwillingnes to separate the facts from the particular theory. The activists have gone so far as to co-opt any terminology that might help the confuddled puzzle it out.   There was a time when you could say 'climate change' and split the difference between the "global warming crisis" man has caused vs. the fact this planet goes through cycles in it's climate and that the times, they are a'changing. They took away the words that could be used to disagree. Pretty fucking Orwellian how that happens.

     So let's do it this way. We have side A that says "the climate is changing." Side B is saying "the climate is changing because..." (also sides C-11Q, but I'm not talking about them).   Side B has a political agenda.

     This planet is billions of years old and in a constant process of change. It's been incredibly hot, and incredibly cold, many times in the past. Why would anyone pretend to care about the data from a single cycle of ice? How stupid must the activists think their audience is, to look at such mathematical masturbation and say "Carbon levels have NEVER been higher?"

      Centralized, authoritarian, control would be the worst way for our civilization to adapt to a dramatic change in climate. If this is a climate jump, instead of an overanalyzed bump, we are going to need some serious innovation in a hurry. Competition drives that.

And your side doesn't have a political agenda? Very funny.

I've gone over this with you several times but once more and maybe you'll get it, we're not worried about killing all life on the planet we're worried about killing human life and more specifically human civilization. Raise the temp a few degrees, melt the ice most of the organisms on the planet can and will survive. Humanity OTOH? Not such a sure thing. How many of us live in areas that will be underwater if the oceans level rises by 1 meter? Where will those people go? What will we do for food if the southern boundary for temperate crops is somewhere in the Dakotas?

There has never ben this much CO2 in the air during human civilization and there are many good reasons to be concerned that our essentially coastal and temperate culture might have trouble with change in climate and sea level.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 54

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 12:03:26 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

What's caused global warming? Capitalism and its irresponsibility towards natural resources. i.e. using the earth as if it is a free resource to harvest and pollute.

You high lighted authoritarianism as though there is an agenda by those that claim something needs to be done but capitalism has always been authoritarian to its victims. What has changed now, is that the winners of capitalism have to modify their behaviour or suffer the same conequences as its victims. This issue has nothing to do with liberal democracy or any other type of government, it has to do with realizing that the earth and its resources is not a free and renewable asset which people can exploit as much as they want regardless of the destruction they cause.

OK So lets assume that you are correct that capitalism created global warming. then why is it that the other planets in our solar system have temps raising at the same percentage rate as Earth.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

"Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

No Greenhouse

Perhaps the biggest stumbling block in Abdussamatov's theory is his dismissal of the greenhouse effect, in which atmospheric gases such as carbon dioxide help keep heat trapped near the planet's surface.

He claims that carbon dioxide has only a small influence on Earth's climate and virtually no influence on Mars.

But "without the greenhouse effect there would be very little, if any, life on Earth, since our planet would pretty much be a big ball of ice," said Evan, of the University of Wisconsin.

Most scientists now fear that the massive amount of carbon dioxide humans are pumping into the air will lead to a catastrophic rise in Earth's temperatures, dramatically raising sea levels as glaciers melt and leading to extreme weather worldwide.

Abdussamatov remains contrarian, however, suggesting that the sun holds something quite different in store.

"The solar irradiance began to drop in the 1990s, and a minimum will be reached by approximately 2040," Abdussamatov said. "It will cause a steep cooling of the climate on Earth in 15 to 20 years.""

You should read something every now and again...Especially if you are not well versed on a subject before you formulate an opinion....But then that would take all of the fun out of keeping a strong uniformed opinion based solely upon my political affiliations. I'm not saying that "Evan, of the University of Wisconsin" is correct...But I think he knows more on the subject than you do. Either way, I don't see the harm in attempting to be more responsible in how we treat our environment.

Argue away. I know I am wasting my time here.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/9/2008 12:07:16 PM >

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Post #: 55

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 1:08:17 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Now you see you've confused the issue with two different matters.

No, I confused nothing. If anything, I've helped to clarify what FirmhandKY intended with his op... which was the intent of my comment.

You're getting closer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

But that doesn't excuse the full tilt BS firmhand started this thread with and while I respect and like you guys I'm sick to death of this garbage being spouted by rightists here and elsewhere so expect that I'll call him or you on it every time I see it.

One more time...

1. Firm said that he believes that some of the more extreme environmentalists have an agenda outside of protecting the environment.

You agree that the environmental leaders do have an agenda but claim that "the vast majority" support democracy.

Okay... but what about the minority who don't support democracy? The extremists referred to by the op?

2. Firm said that this book looks to offer those extremists who are seeking power a platform for advancing their agenda.

Here's the point you're missing. He said nothing else in his op.

So... is this the "BS" and "garbage" are you referring to?

Funny, but I don't recall you addressing this at all, let alone calling myself or Firm on it.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 2/9/2008 1:11:41 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 56

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 1:16:21 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

One more time...

1. Firm said that he believes that some of the more extreme environmentalists have an agenda outside of protecting the environment.

It would be soooooooooooo refreshing if Firm would enlighten us as to what he is so afraid of? What would happen that has not already transpired in the past?

I think Firm is unable to look at this subject rationally. If he is, then please explain the posting of the errant article about the "prius." The only person that apparently has a personal agenda is Firm. Am I wrong?

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Post #: 57

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 1:56:02 PM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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"Non-Believers." Now where have we heard that term before?

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Post #: 58

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 1:56:59 PM

KenDckey

Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

What's caused global warming? Capitalism and its irresponsibility towards natural resources. i.e. using the earth as if it is a free resource to harvest and pollute.

You high lighted authoritarianism as though there is an agenda by those that claim something needs to be done but capitalism has always been authoritarian to its victims. What has changed now, is that the winners of capitalism have to modify their behaviour or suffer the same conequences as its victims. This issue has nothing to do with liberal democracy or any other type of government, it has to do with realizing that the earth and its resources is not a free and renewable asset which people can exploit as much as they want regardless of the destruction they cause.

OK So lets assume that you are correct that capitalism created global warming. then why is it that the other planets in our solar system have temps raising at the same percentage rate as Earth.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

You should read something every now and again...Especially if you are not well versed on a subject before you formulate an opinion....But then that would take all of the fun out of keeping a strong uniformed opinion based solely upon my political affiliations. I'm not saying that "Evan, of the University of Wisconsin" is correct...But I think he knows more on the subject than you do. Either way, I don't see the harm in attempting to be more responsible in how we treat our environment.

Argue away. I know I am wasting my time here.

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-warming-on-jupiter.html

Neptune

The climate of Neptune - more precisely its reflectivity - was recently changing. Lockwood and Hammel argue in Geophysical Research Letters, vol. 34 (2007) that the trends on Neptune reveal suggestive correlations of brightness of Neptune with the temperature trends on Earth, indicating their common solar origin - although I am not quite sure whether the sign is as expected.

Triton

Triton is Neptune's largest Moon. Some people believe that it used to be an asteroid. Global warming was detected on Triton. Between 1989 and 1998, the temperature jumped by 5 percent on the absolute (Kelvin) scale. The same relative increase would raise the Earth's temperature by 22 degrees Fahrenheit in 9 years. See thousands of other pages about the global warming on Triton.

Enceladus

Another moon of Saturn's, Enceladus, would be also expected to be frozen and cold. Suddenly, Cassini has informed us that Enceladus generates its own heat. Its high temperatures seem to be incompatible with calculations based on solar energy itself, according to existing models.

Saturn

Saturn itself has a rather warm southern pole, and the temperatures in that region suddenly jumped by 3-5 Kelvin degrees. Well, it's warm because it's been exposed to sunshine for quite some time but the magnitude of the temperature jumps is not trivial to calculate.

Pluto

What's going on with Pluto? Well, yes, your guess is right. There is global warming on Pluto. Pluto's atmospheric pressure has tripled in 14 years, and the associated increase of temperature is estimated to be around 3.5 Fahrenheit degrees, despite the motion of Pluto away from the Sun.

Mars

Of course, the global warming on Mars is a well-known story. Between 1975 and 2000, Mars warmed up by 0.65 Celsius degrees, much faster than Earth: see Nature 2007. The warming has been used by this blog to discover the Martians. More seriously, we have explained that the dramatic and speedy melting of the Martian icecaps is caused by the greenhouse effect. 95% of "their" atmosphere is made of carbon dioxide; that's slightly more than 0.038% of our atmosphere.

The warming trend on Mars is undeniable. Some people have tried to blame the global warming on NASA's rovers. Such accusations are pretty serious because NASA is already preparing plans to occupy Mars using the greenhouse effect, as ordered by George Bush. ;-)

Venus

This planet doesn't belong to this list of planets where recent warming has been demonstrated. But it is interesting to talk about the greenhouse effect there.

The article does go on. But I do some research.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 59

RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... - 2/9/2008 2:29:40 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

What's caused global warming? Capitalism and its irresponsibility towards natural resources. i.e. using the earth as if it is a free resource to harvest and pollute.

You high lighted authoritarianism as though there is an agenda by those that claim something needs to be done but capitalism has always been authoritarian to its victims. What has changed now, is that the winners of capitalism have to modify their behaviour or suffer the same conequences as its victims. This issue has nothing to do with liberal democracy or any other type of government, it has to do with realizing that the earth and its resources is not a free and renewable asset which people can exploit as much as they want regardless of the destruction they cause.

OK So lets assume that you are correct that capitalism created global warming. then why is it that the other planets in our solar system have temps raising at the same percentage rate as Earth.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

You should read something every now and again...Especially if you are not well versed on a subject before you formulate an opinion....But then that would take all of the fun out of keeping a strong uniformed opinion based solely upon my political affiliations. I'm not saying that "Evan, of the University of Wisconsin" is correct...But I think he knows more on the subject than you do. Either way, I don't see the harm in attempting to be more responsible in how we treat our environment.

Argue away. I know I am wasting my time here.

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-warming-on-jupiter.html

Neptune

The climate of Neptune - more precisely its reflectivity - was recently changing. Lockwood and Hammel argue in Geophysical Research Letters, vol. 34 (2007) that the trends on Neptune reveal suggestive correlations of brightness of Neptune with the temperature trends on Earth, indicating their common solar origin - although I am not quite sure whether the sign is as expected.

Triton

Triton is Neptune's largest Moon. Some people believe that it used to be an asteroid. Global warming was detected on Triton. Between 1989 and 1998, the temperature jumped by 5 percent on the absolute (Kelvin) scale. The same relative increase would raise the Earth's temperature by 22 degrees Fahrenheit in 9 years. See thousands of other pages about the global warming on Triton.

Enceladus

Another moon of Saturn's, Enceladus, would be also expected to be frozen and cold. Suddenly, Cassini has informed us that Enceladus generates its own heat. Its high temperatures seem to be incompatible with calculations based on solar energy itself, according to existing models.

Saturn

Saturn itself has a rather warm southern pole, and the temperatures in that region suddenly jumped by 3-5 Kelvin degrees. Well, it's warm because it's been exposed to sunshine for quite some time but the magnitude of the temperature jumps is not trivial to calculate.

Pluto

What's going on with Pluto? Well, yes, your guess is right. There is global warming on Pluto. Pluto's atmospheric pressure has tripled in 14 years, and the associated increase of temperature is estimated to be around 3.5 Fahrenheit degrees, despite the motion of Pluto away from the Sun.

Mars

Of course, the global warming on Mars is a well-known story. Between 1975 and 2000, Mars warmed up by 0.65 Celsius degrees, much faster than Earth: see Nature 2007. The warming has been used by this blog to discover the Martians. More seriously, we have explained that the dramatic and speedy melting of the Martian icecaps is caused by the greenhouse effect. 95% of "their" atmosphere is made of carbon dioxide; that's slightly more than 0.038% of our atmosphere.

The warming trend on Mars is undeniable. Some people have tried to blame the global warming on NASA's rovers. Such accusations are pretty serious because NASA is already preparing plans to occupy Mars using the greenhouse effect, as ordered by George Bush. ;-)

Venus

This planet doesn't belong to this list of planets where recent warming has been demonstrated. But it is interesting to talk about the greenhouse effect there.

The article does go on. But I do some research.

Let's see, I use National Geographic.....And you respond with "The Reference Frame"

"The most important events in our and your superstringy Universe as seen from a conservative physicist's viewpoint."

Fuck...I'm trying to get off of moderation and you throw this shit out as your source? Are you serious?....Do any of you understand what it takes to have a meaningful debate? Do any of you give a shit about integrity..Your own or the sources you choose to utilize?

Here is a quote several paragraphs below where you chose to end the article that you quoted.......

"The debate is over, Al Gore, our prophet, has announced. Terrestrial global warming, caused by the human sins, is no longer a political issue: it is now a spiritual issue. Now it's time to punish the heretics who deny that the Earth as the center of the Universe is special because of the humans who were created to the image of God - and because of their sins and SUVs."

What in the Hell is wrong with you?

quote:

KenDckey

The article does go on. But I do some research.

This is research? I am at a total loss. It is a one sided view....I was right I am wasting my time here...."Research"...lol.

Between Firm citing articles that are entirely false or completely lack all credibility...And this shit...What is the point?...Your minds are made up. You don't care about the truth or the message you just fucking despise the messenger so much that regardless of what information was relayed you were never going to have any of it.

It's a kind of a funny thing if you have the type of mind that allows you to think "outside of the box"...You will gladly defend a war built on much erroneous information that seems to "possibly" have been started because some "people" might have harbored some sort of an "agenda"...This war, which an outcome is uncertain to say the least, has certainly led to close to 4,000 U.S. personell being killed and close to 30,000 being wounded. Where was your trepidation here!...It's all good! Why do you not care or will even go as far as defending this dilemma?

Now someone comes along....First scientist, not Al Gore. They state that our emissions are raising the temperature on our planet.....What do you do? Holy fuck, you go crazy!!! They have to be wrong! They are liars!! They are only trying to further some sort of a political agenda!!!! ...

Even if you were to follow their recommendations what is the worse that could happen? Our air gets cleaner. Respiratory problems decrease...Although it might cause us to lose some spectacular sunsets...When the sun hits the particles trapped in the atmosphere it does make for some romantic moments that inevitably lead to some outstanding cocksucking....Nonetheless, You are all tremendous hypocrites. What you will utilize to defend your positions shows a complete lack of character and a disregard for honesty, truth and the American way.

Oh, and you sicken me....Only in a positive "tos" kind of way...lol.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/9/2008 2:49:28 PM >

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(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 60

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