Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:38:24 PM)

Dinnaja just know this was in the works?  [:)]

The Climate Change Challenge and the Failure of Democracy

Climate change threatens the future of civilization, but humanity is impotent in effecting solutions.

Even in those nations with a commitment to reduce greenhouse emissions, they continue to rise. This failure mirrors those in many other spheres that deplete the fish of the sea, erode fertile land, destroy native forests, pollute rivers and streams, and utilize the world's natural resources beyond their replacement rate.

In this provocative book, Shearman and Smith present evidence that the fundamental problem causing environmental destruction--and climate change in particular--is the operation of liberal democracy. Its flaws and contradictions bestow upon government--and its institutions, laws, and the markets and corporations that provide its sustenance--an inability to make decisions that could provide a sustainable society. ...  the authors conclude that an authoritarian form of government is necessary, but this will be governance by experts and not by those who seek power.

Now, I know that many people who "believe" in Global Warming/Climate Change are good intentioned .... but as I and some of the others have said on these forums, the problem is the way, method and people who seem to be most deeply "on board" with it ... seem to have their own power agenda.

Now here comes a book that gives them philosophical justification.

Expect to see their arguments showing up on in the media, and on the forums over the next couple of years.

Firm

edited to add focus:

I'd really not like to get bogged down in whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change "exists" or not, but rather, on the political impact of that belief system existing.

That ok?  [:D]




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:41:09 PM)

there isnt no global warming here!!! its fucking global snowing!!!!

cant even walk anyplace...the snow banks are 6 feet high atleast.  so trying to get to the curb to cross the street is damn hard...cause you gotta climb over the snow bank!

we are having the WORST snow fall in over 10+ years!  we're already at 128 points ...and last yr there was only 44 points all season!

i am getting sick of this!!! someone get me to wenchies house!! shes in the sun!!!




kittinSol -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:49:20 PM)

Moaning... If you want to go to the Church of Denialism...  [8D] .

Me? It's the end of the world as I knew it :-) .




Honsoku -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:50:12 PM)

He's half right. The ineffectiveness of effecting solutions is due to a government issue. This issue is that governmental processes struggle greatly with rectifying and preventing conflicts between individual self-interest and the interests of society as a whole (aka. the tragedy of the commons). This is present in all known styles of government. Authoritarianism wouldn't fare any better. Not to mention that it wouldn't be ruled by experts anyway, as power goes towards those who seek it.




sub4hire -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:52:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

we're already at 128 points ...and last yr there was only 44 points all season!




What is a point of snow?





faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:54:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

we're already at 128 points ...and last yr there was only 44 points all season!




What is a point of snow?




its probly a centimeter or maybe an inch of snow..they had some graph thing on the weather network.





FirmhandKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:55:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Moaning... If you want to go to the Church of Denialism...  [8D] .

I'm a member of two different "churchy" groups ...

... one is the Parish of Critical Thinking, and ...

.. the Order of the Skeptic.

Both have given me great guidance in my life, and proved themselves immensely worthy. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Me? It's the end of the world as I knew it :-) .


... and that might be a gooood thing .... [:D]

Firm




sub4hire -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:56:28 PM)

Thanks, we've had about 2 feet here total so far.  With about 4 inches on the ground as the norm now.
We really could use some temps above freezing for a while.  We're at 90+ days with snow on the ground currently.






KenDckey -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:56:50 PM)

What I don't understand if Global warming is the fault of man and can be fixed by man, why is earth and other planets in our solar system warming at the same percentage rate?   What did we do to them?




servantforuse -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 2:59:55 PM)

No global warming here in Milwaukee either. Normal snowfall for this time of year, 34 inches. So far this year, 66 inches..It will be 9 above zero on Sunday. Where is al Gore when you need him?




seeksfemslave -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:02:37 PM)

Gels perfectly with the idea that at root green politics is authoritarian.
Religion in the dark ages. Environmentalism today.

These barstards (sic) are ever present




DomKen -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:05:18 PM)

Two guys nobody has ever heard of write a book with an oddball conclusion so the global warming denialists are right and the majority of enviromentalists are moronic dupes of an authoritarian cabal? How does that logic go again?

Let's say I take a similiar byt stronger relationship and make a point and we'll see how Firmhand likes it. GWB and much of his administration are evangelicals and have close relationships with the late D. James Kennedy, noted dominionist, amd his various former employees. Dominionism is a well documented, by their own writing, authoritarian theocratic cabal bent on the take over of this country and the institution of a theocracy with themselves as its leaders. Therefore everyone who ever voted for GWB at any level is at best a dupe working to overthrough this nation. Pretty absurd right? Now notice that the association involved is a lot more direct than that between two relative unknowns and the entire enviromental movement so Firmhand ready to stop painting with quite so broad a brush or do you find the label traitor comfortable?




sub4hire -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:07:37 PM)

Someone just sent this to me.

The National Geographic Channel will be airing SIX DEGREES COULD CHANGE THE WORLDthis Sunday, February 10th @ 8pm EST, 9pm

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=O8qmaAMK4cM&rel=1&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//i.ytimg.com/vi/O8qmaAMK4cM/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskJhdMkCSvIvUsI_kcB8CVDb&autoplay=1






FirmhandKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:09:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Two guys nobody has ever heard of write a book with an oddball conclusion so the global warming denialists are right and the majority of enviromentalists are moronic dupes of an authoritarian cabal? How does that logic go again?

Let's say I take a similiar byt stronger relationship and make a point and we'll see how Firmhand likes it. GWB and much of his administration are evangelicals and have close relationships with the late D. James Kennedy, noted dominionist, amd his various former employees. Dominionism is a well documented, by their own writing, authoritarian theocratic cabal bent on the take over of this country and the institution of a theocracy with themselves as its leaders. Therefore everyone who ever voted for GWB at any level is at best a dupe working to overthrough this nation. Pretty absurd right? Now notice that the association involved is a lot more direct than that between two relative unknowns and the entire enviromental movement so Firmhand ready to stop painting with quite so broad a brush or do you find the label traitor comfortable?



Firmhand said:
I'd really not like to get bogged down in whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change "exists" or not, but rather, on the political impact of that belief system existing.

That ok?  [:D]

Of course ... we can also talk about the political impact of BDS, or how it impacts the belief in Global Warming/Climate Change, if you wish.

Firm




domiguy -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:36:01 PM)

Ther usual suspects chime in...The enlightened ones....When I see KenDckey's picture I cannot help to think that he might be incapable of possessing an independent thought one that is not comprimised by his political affiliations.

It seems to me that the scientists have taken into consideration everything that could lead to why our world is warming and what is left is the influence of man.

The majority of people who think that global warming is nonsense reached that conclusion based on the information brought forth by Al Gore....If Al Gore started the sky is blue you would be arguing that position right now.

Why is it so alarming to anyone to think that our actions and pollutants could have an effect on our climate? Why is that such catastrophic news.

As someone who values the outdoors as well as the protection of our environment I can safely tell you that they have suffered under the Bush regime.

Is there no compromise between industry, our pursuit of oil and the environment? I imagine that there is...It has long been viewed that Democrats have been more the stewards of our natural resources then the folks across the aisle.

It just amazes me that you will post thread after thread from the "harmful Prius" to anything that will discount the premise that our actions are harming our climate....What's up with that shit?

All of you seem way to preoccupied with the messenger than the message. What's wrong with thinking "green?" You act as if it is repugnant to try to do something to better the quality of our air and thereby our lives. I really do feel sorry for many of you. To be so trapped within your affiliations to not be able to realize how simple and blind you come across.


Let's say that the scientist have it all wrong...We, the countries and people of this earth, can do whatever we please without any ramifications to the climate of this planet....(Doesn't it seem really dumb when you read what I just typed?) I'm serious, doesn't it strike you as being rather naive to think in this manner? But let's say it turns out that they (the scientists) were just plain wrong...Where is the harm?...To try and live in peace with our environment...To try to finds alternate and cleaner fuel sources...To increase the gas mileage of our autos...To try and reduce the emmissions and the pollutants that we spew into the atmosphere. I mean it's not like we are the ones who have got to breathe this shit in.

Where is the harm?... Aside from it just makes some sort of sense that there is some sort of a relationship between the two...Why does it piss you off so? Why? Why? Why?

Go ahead drive a gas guzzler, litter, pour you used oil down the sewer, try to get legislation passed that would once again allow industry to use our waters, lands and skies as their own personal toilets...Do it. It should make you feel good.

I really don't get you folks...It has much to do with common sense and respect...Who has it and who deserves it.




KenDckey -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:39:07 PM)

OK   Science has shwn that global warming/cooling has changed the climate of the planet for eons.   It goes up, it goes down.   Started long before the scientists said man was involved.   Now the outlying planets are having temperature flux on the smae percentage as earth.   Can anyone explain how man can prevent it or do we just ignore that?




MrrPete -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:40:01 PM)

Move to Laverne OK. Total snowfall of less than a foot since I blew in here two years ago. No tornadoes either I'm 100 miles west of Tornado Alley. No flooding from thunderstorms. BUT it DOES get windy and drive the windchill down. It does get below freezing but rarely below 0  :)

Cold is a relative term. Cold is when you can heat your home with your freezer.
Been ther done that.




DomKen -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:40:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Firmhand said:

I'd really not like to get bogged down in whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change "exists" or not, but rather, on the political impact of that belief system existing.

That ok?  [:D]


Of course ... we can also talk about the political impact of BDS, or how it impacts the belief in Global Warming/Climate Change, if you wish.

Firm

So you can cast aspersions but when I point out how utterly ridiculous your claim is I off topic. You can do better than that.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:51:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


So you can cast aspersions but when I point out how utterly ridiculous your claim is I off topic. You can do better than that.


Take a chill pill, dude.

Firm




DomKen -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:54:05 PM)

Well, I guess that settles that.

Next time you want to attack people you disagree with you might want to be prepared to defend your claim.




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