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Noah -> The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 12:36:08 AM)

Elsewhere there is a thread running which questions the fascination some people have with the Gor novels.

Not being too interested in why certain people are entranced by those book or by shiny things, I'd rather inquire as to whether any, well, actual literature has amassed a gor-esque BDSM following.

Whether it has or hasn't, would any of you be interested in taking most of your personal kinky cues from a favorite literary source?

If a strange planet is required then we might be inspired by Vonnegut to become Tralfamadorians. Vonnegut fans who wanted to concentrate on CBT could go with a Slapstick theme instead, I guess.

And so it goes (you golden-shower freaks.)

Or we could kink-out to the musings of Douglas Adams (lots of planets to choose from.) Think: The Hitchiker's Guide to BDSM and on Alternate Thursdays Also L, Q, That Symbol Prince Used For a While, and C.

Staying science-fictiony and letting the literary standards slip even further would make it easy for Starwarians to imagine up the world where The Empire Strikes Your Back.

Honestly though, I'm hoping to hear about a bunch of people taking their cues from, say Chaucer, or Camus, or Conrad, or Woody Allen.

Can I get any help with this?

HOW ABOUT SHAKESPEARE? Shakespeare shouldn't be all that difficult to base a community of kinky obsession on, forsooth's sake. But why limit ourselves to fiction? How hard would it be to chain a power-exchange community to Machiavelli?

If Machiavelli is too archaic for you then consider his literary heirs in the contemporary self-help genre. If that Norman guy can inspire such devotion in the Gorapotamians, imagine the kink community which decides to focus itself on the works of Tony Robbins. C'mon sensation players, this is the guy who gave us: "The only limit to your impact is your imagination and commitment."

But wait, we were gonna try to shoot for quality literature.  Hmmm ...

Sticking with self-help, those hoping to explore kinky spirituality (and bondage in particular) might take up the writings of Julianna the Anchoriteof Norwich. Of course it is self-evident which fetishists might hang on every word from John of the Cross.

Or just stay with novels if you want. You pick the books, but please pick good ones this time. Whether it is Dickens or Faulkner or Tanizaki or E. Annie Proulx, please respond in this thread with your ideas for a book-inspired kink community with more than three letters in its name.

Thanks







breatheasone -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 12:44:30 AM)

How about the book "Kiss the girls"......we could rename it..."Hit the girls"...[;)]



Nineveh -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 1:29:30 AM)

There is always the story of O.  I have seen a vast amount of people who have been very deeply impacted by that, and iwould say it has far more literary merit than the Gor books.



Noah -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 1:50:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

How about the book "Kiss the girls"......we could rename it..."Hit the girls"...[;)]


Wouldn't Kick the Girls be more faithful to the original title?



AZ89169 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 2:23:24 AM)

I may be missing the point of your thread, but there's plenty of examples around.

First there's all the Vampire roleplaying groups, usually Lestat types.  Based on lots of books, not just Anne Rice's.  Not just online communities, but RPGs, LARPs, and more.  The goth teens seem to think it's quite kinky.

There are many different books that inspire furry communities.  They've always seemed like a pretty independent, chaotic lot, so might not choose one particular mythos.  But I imagine there are some groups out there who have managed to settle on just one author's vision and try to stick to it.

Then there's communities based on A. N. Roquelaure's Beauty series (aka Anne Rice).  Princesses enslaved and taught to enjoy pain (mostly spanking) with sex.  It's done remarkably similar to Gor -- towns set up, some people play the slaves, some the masters, some the townspeople, and specific social protocols to follow.

There's one quite successful company that makes porn movies solely based on the World of Warcraft mythos (the online game).

I think Star Trek actually counts, as books that people take their cues from.  Yes, these people aren't as kinky as Goreans, but I'd argue that's just because the Star Trek books aren't very kinky.  They're still taking their cue from the books, even if that cue happens to be 'dorky and vanilla'.

I believe Tolkien's books have made some community for decades, there *must* be some folks out there being elves and hobbits.  But I admit I haven't actually come across them.

I assume there are some based on The Story of O, or Behind the Green Door, but those probably are small scale, they don't make for whole communities.

I think many of Heinlein's books, that sometimes inspire ideas of polyamory, would be firtile ground.  But maybe there just isn't enough detail there to emulate.  Maybe if he'd put out 20 books all in the same world, to fill in all that detail, he'd have gotten a Gor-like following.

And as an aside I think Gor can be non-kinky too -- people can bring their kink, or lack of it, with them to their imaginings of that type of society.




Nineveh -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 2:30:13 AM)

Star Trek can get pretty kinky.  I have seen some Klingon Doms who would give any Gorean a run for his money in kink.



celticlord2112 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 2:45:37 AM)

Frank Herbert's Dune stories provide ample fodder for an alternative lifestyle.

At the very least, there are interesting snippets that have value in a D/s context; most notable is the Litany against Fear. A good practice for masters and slaves alike.



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 2:48:29 AM)

Most Goreans disliek the books....because they are badly written. Takes ages to finish some parts...it is the content that attracts them.
They are just books..soem people find comfort from books..some find courage in books......or rest.....reading feeds the mind.



Rafters -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 3:00:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
Staying science-fictiony and letting the literary standards slip even further would make it easy for Starwarians to imagine up the world where The Empire Strikes Your Bac


http://www.leiasmetalbikini.com/
Poke around here, I'm sure there's one or two girls here, for who the chains and steel aren't just... metaphors.

quote:

HOW ABOUT SHAKESPEARE? Shakespeare shouldn't be all that difficult to base a community of kinky obsession on, forsooth's sake. But why limit ourselves to fiction? How hard would it be to chain a power-exchange community to Machiavelli?


http://www.sca.org/
I won't comment on the girls, they hang round guys with swords.



littlebitxxx -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 3:15:34 AM)

<tongue firmly in cheek>
I've heard of a few books that have gathered quite in a following for themselves...like the Bible, the Koran and the infamous Zen for Dummies.  I wonder also if Dungeons and Dragons players took their cue from Tolkien?  And what about that Marquis deSade guy?  I heard he really started something way back when.  [8D]



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 3:25:34 AM)

quote:

And what about that Marquis deSade guy? I heard he really started something way back when.


He treats females as bad as they are treated in the Gor books. Though de Sade is seen as an icon..and the Gorean people are treated as outcast or cycos...
haha funny..makes me always wonder if people read the books...or just the reviews

(reply at all btw)



sextoygirlNY -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 3:29:56 AM)

greetings,

little bit, exactly, much of this lifestyle is based upon some form of writing.
Leopold Von Masoch-"masochism"
Marquis De Sade-"sadism"
these two individuals were credited with the start of a mainstream form of play based on their writings......

truthfully not really understanding why it sounds like sarcastic frustrated undertone in the OP's question, writers throughout history will take on experiences in all aspects of life incorporate it into their story lines, as a reader, sometimes there will be something we identify with, find truth in, or become one with.  Each time we quote that particular scenario from a literary standpoint its bringing to life our core beliefs. Who cares if it has a different name to it, be it Star Trek, Gor, Dune, Anne Rice, Pauline Reage, Laurell K Hamilton, the list can go on infiniate..in fact i believe most people here have some sort of Live Journal or My Space page in which they write there beliefs and opinions every day, that alone can be a literary work that one can identify with.
How about instead of this thread being against the Goreans.......your question in stead was...
How do Literary Works enhance our lives and what aspects do you incoporate into your bdsm/kinky lifestyle?????

wishes you well,
melanie



happypervert -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 5:18:24 AM)

I am a Tarzanian master. Those of you familiar with the gorean ways may find it similar because I found my D/s instruction manual in the Tarzan series of books by Edgar Rice Burroughs.

Some of the similarities are as follows:

they have a kajira, I have a Jane
their girls wear a kollar, mine wears a loincloth
their girls pose or dance, mine swings from a vine
they call themselves free men, but I am Lord of the jungle!

I believe that Tarzanian domination is far superior to gorean because it is based on reality here on earth instead of some fantasy about another planet. It is gaining in popularity as you read this, and some day the chicks who are reading this will drop awestruck to their knees at the words "Me Tarzan, you Jane."



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 5:37:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

I am a Tarzanian master. Those of you familiar with the gorean ways may find it similar because I found my D/s instruction manual in the Tarzan series of books by Edgar Rice Burroughs.

Some of the similarities are as follows:

they have a kajira, I have a Jane
their girls wear a kollar, mine wears a loincloth
their girls pose or dance, mine swings from a vine
they call themselves free men, but I am Lord of the jungle!

I believe that Tarzanian domination is far superior to gorean because it is based on reality here on earth instead of some fantasy about another planet. It is gaining in popularity as you read this, and some day the chicks who are reading this will drop awestruck to their knees at the words "Me Tarzan, you Jane."


discussions are not about making fun of others believe...that is called weakness..not a discussion



OmegaG -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 5:49:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

And what about that Marquis deSade guy? I heard he really started something way back when.


He treats females as bad as they are treated in the Gor books. Though de Sade is seen as an icon..and the Gorean people are treated as outcast or cycos...
haha funny..makes me always wonder if people read the books...or just the reviews

(reply at all btw)


I've read a few of the Gorean books, personally I find them a facinating look to the backlash of the militant feminists of the late 1960s.  For the most part it's SciFi, action, adventure, strange creatures, etc, but occasionally Tarl gets into a moment of ponderance where he notes that the slaves of Gor are free-er, prettier, happier, et al then their Earth counter parts.  Norman's underlying message in these books (and it's more blatent in Time Slave) is that the feminist movement is bad and is ruining women. 

Feminism was fairly radical in the 60s and there was a need for balance, but I could speak far to long on that subject, so I won't.

It's possible that what unsettles people when reading Norman that they don't feel when reading deSade is the social message in it's texts which is still at the forefront of our collective ,minds.

But that is what true (twue) SciFi is-- a fantasy thinly disguising the authors concern for a political/social issue that needs attention.




bipolarber -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 6:30:49 AM)

I was going to mention the Klingons as well. In Denver, we have (or had... it's been a few years since I've been back) a fairly healthy mini community of folks who believed in sculpting their sex lives around them... and occasionally the Orions. LOL

Certainly, doing so is no more ridiculous than using 26 pulp novels as the basis for you life's "philosophy." But, if you intend to disappear into fiction, I think Trek would be a better one to enter, simply because it stresses something like tolerance (IDIC) rather than slapping your bitch around (non-consentually) if she gets out of line.

The attraction to John Norman? The covers to the paperbacks. Nice paintings of girls on their knees, dressed in maybe a bit of bunny fur and a bit brass, and the body builder male with a sword standing over them. A nice iconic image, a great fantsy, but not one any of the folks into "gor" really live up to.



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 6:31:51 AM)

quote:

deSade is the social message in it's texts which is still at the forefront of our collective ,minds.
quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

And what about that Marquis deSade guy? I heard he really started something way back when.


He treats females as bad as they are treated in the Gor books. Though de Sade is seen as an icon..and the Gorean people are treated as outcast or cycos...
haha funny..makes me always wonder if people read the books...or just the reviews

(reply at all btw)


I've read a few of the Gorean books, personally I find them a facinating look to the backlash of the militant feminists of the late 1960s.  For the most part it's SciFi, action, adventure, strange creatures, etc, but occasionally Tarl gets into a moment of ponderance where he notes that the slaves of Gor are free-er, prettier, happier, et al then their Earth counter parts.  Norman's underlying message in these books (and it's more blatent in Time Slave) is that the feminist movement is bad and is ruining women. 

Feminism was fairly radical in the 60s and there was a need for balance, but I could speak far to long on that subject, so I won't.

It's possible that what unsettles people when reading Norman that they don't feel when reading deSade is the social message in it's texts which is still at the forefront of our collective ,minds.

But that is what true (twue) SciFi is-- a fantasy thinly disguising the authors concern for a political/social issue that needs attention.




It is a while ago since I read de Sade, but  .....i remember in one of his books he wants girls to die..to bleed..to be tortured...lol. I stopped readin then..because I wasn'what I expected. He has been romantisized.
I think many know him..fewer have read him.

(think 120 days in sodom is pretty cruel / different from the romantised soft porn movies with  foggy pictures lol))



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 6:35:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber



The attraction to John Norman? The covers to the paperbacks. Nice paintings of girls on their knees, dressed in maybe a bit of bunny fur and a bit brass, and the body builder male with a sword standing over them.


made by Boris Vallejo


I don't mind people talking about Gor. It is just funny how lots of discussion go about how the vanilla life judges about BDSM....and then the people within BDSM judge about Gor. The goreans chose themselfs how they live.... let them be..if they are happy.



OmegaG -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 6:40:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

deSade is the social message in it's texts which is still at the forefront of our collective ,minds.
quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

And what about that Marquis deSade guy? I heard he really started something way back when.


He treats females as bad as they are treated in the Gor books. Though de Sade is seen as an icon..and the Gorean people are treated as outcast or cycos...
haha funny..makes me always wonder if people read the books...or just the reviews

(reply at all btw)


I've read a few of the Gorean books, personally I find them a facinating look to the backlash of the militant feminists of the late 1960s.  For the most part it's SciFi, action, adventure, strange creatures, etc, but occasionally Tarl gets into a moment of ponderance where he notes that the slaves of Gor are free-er, prettier, happier, et al then their Earth counter parts.  Norman's underlying message in these books (and it's more blatent in Time Slave) is that the feminist movement is bad and is ruining women. 

Feminism was fairly radical in the 60s and there was a need for balance, but I could speak far to long on that subject, so I won't.

It's possible that what unsettles people when reading Norman that they don't feel when reading deSade is the social message in it's texts which is still at the forefront of our collective ,minds.

But that is what true (twue) SciFi is-- a fantasy thinly disguising the authors concern for a political/social issue that needs attention.




It is a while ago since I read de Sade, but  .....i remember in one of his books he wants girls to die..to bleed..to be tortured...lol. I stopped readin then..because I wasn'what I expected. He has been romantisized.
I think many know him..fewer have read him.

(think 120 days in sodom is pretty cruel / different from the romantised soft porn movies with  foggy pictures lol))



I've read snippits of deSade and I recognize that he was in it for his sadistic pleasure alone and had no concern for his victims.

m'Lord will read Justine before I do, and fairly soon I predict.



MadRabbit -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 7:04:07 AM)

I always thought Burroughs classic "Tarzan of the Ape" would have been a better inspiration for a male dominant society. Much better writing with the same primal, barbaric chest thumping in a secluded Jungle Eden with no clothes or social inhibitions.

While the book is G-rated, I think every D/S kinksters mind has created a few missing chapters expanding on the love scenario between Jane and Tarzan.

All the animals might make it a bit too unpopular for American cultists...

Maybe it would be better as a "European thing"...



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