RE: The Un-Gor (Full Version)

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christine1 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 7:04:41 AM)

 i LOVE the Klingons as well!  worf speed ahead! ahem, i mean warp speed ahead! hehe.



LaTigresse -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 7:11:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber



The attraction to John Norman? The covers to the paperbacks. Nice paintings of girls on their knees, dressed in maybe a bit of bunny fur and a bit brass, and the body builder male with a sword standing over them.


made by Boris Vallejo


I don't mind people talking about Gor. It is just funny how lots of discussion go about how the vanilla life judges about BDSM....and then the people within BDSM judge about Gor. The goreans chose themselfs how they live.... let them be..if they are happy.



While I am quite certain that those that identify as goreans can defend themselves, based upon what I have seen........ I don't believe the intent of this thread had anything to do with attacking or defending the gorean choice. Rather, as I read it, to chose some better written literature that might be used in a manner similar to Norman's books. To base a lifestyle choice on.

To get into any sort of pro or anti gorean chatter would sidetrack the intent of the thread.

signed,

PretendWannabeModfortheMoment



MadRabbit -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 7:18:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

To base a lifestyle choice on.



Scientology presents a great choice. It doesn't deal with solely power based relationships and politics, but all the answers to the questions of life!



LaTigresse -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 7:24:48 AM)

Yanno, with all of the publicity on Scientology in recent years I really have yet to take the time to learn what it is all about. I do know that, if it is going to mean going on Oprah and jumping on her sofa as a kink, count me out. I like to keep my more humiliating life moments a little more private.

I think I tried to read a book by L.Ron Hubbard many many years ago and did something I rarely do, put it back unfinished. I wonder if I could make any sense of it today...



MadRabbit -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 7:26:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think I tried to read a book by L.Ron Hubbard many many years ago and did something I rarely do, put it back unfinished. I wonder if I could make any sense of it today...


And that's why it's such a bigger better version of the Gorean novels. [:D]



petdave -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 7:42:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

If a strange planet is required then we might be inspired by Vonnegut to become Tralfamadorians. Vonnegut fans who wanted to concentrate on CBT could go with a Slapstick theme instead, I guess.

And so it goes (you golden-shower freaks.)


i actually thought some of the devices from Harrison Bergeron had some potential...[:-]

However, if i had to pick a literary world, my first choice (as i mention in almost any thread about books here [8|]) would be Terre de Ange in  Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel series... While the key component of the "world" is removing the shame and stigma from human sexuality, and not BDSM per se, it still plays a very significant part in the story and the spirituality of the society.

From a more fantasy-driven perspective, i think some argument could be made for Robert Jordan's (RIP) Wheel of Time series... my favorite are the damane, of course, but more practical would be the honor-driven society of the Aiel, who practice semi-consensual slavery, including copious humiliation and physical correction, as part of their culture...



TracyTaken -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 8:15:19 AM)

I have seen some elements in books since I was a kid, but that was more seeing what was important to me.  The first one I can recall would be “Little House in the Big Woods.”

Norman’s following were people (young men probably) who had BDSM thoughts, and he catered to them, just as Rice catered to followers of Beauty.  I think it would be difficult to set up a whole style of living based on what someone who is kink-inclined could read into a book that’s not intended to be kinky.

You could create a whole society of D/s that is highly sadistic based on The Scarlet Letter, but since that was based on the practices of a real culture . . .

This has a yummy dominant tone, if you read it right
- - - - - -
There is nothing that keeps you at any one moment out of hell, but my mere pleasure.  -- By my mere pleasure, I mean my sovereign pleasure, my arbitrary will, restrained by no obligation, hindered by no manner of difficulty, any more than if nothing else but my mere will had in the least degree, or in any respect whatsoever, any hand in the your preservation.

Your strength has no power to resist me, nor can anyone deliver you out of my hands. – I am not only able to cast you into hell, but I can most easily do it. Sometimes an earthly prince meets with a great deal of difficulty to subdue a rebel, who has found means to fortify herself.  It is not so with me.  You have no fortress that is any defense from me.  You are as a great heap of light chaff before the whirlwind; or a quantity of dry stubble before devouring flames.

It is not because I am unmindful of your wickedness, and do not resent it, that I do not let loose my hand.  My wrath burns against you, your fate does not slumber; the pit is prepared, the fire is made ready, the furnace is now hot, ready to receive you; the flames do now rage and glow . . .

- - - - -
Seems like pretty hot stuff to me, and it was intended to be guidance for living.  It’s part of the sermon “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” (I tweaked with the wording) from Edwards, asshole that he was.

Maybe religion veiled kink.

I  haven’t  read Chaucer yet, but he’s on my syllabus.  



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 8:16:19 AM)

quote:


While I am quite certain that those that identify as goreans can defend themselves, based upon what I have seen.


and I just defended myself,  PretendWannabeModfortheMoment   ;)



tigerstyle -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 8:51:43 AM)

I take my cues from Jack Vance!



kittinSol -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 9:09:15 AM)

Quick reply -

De Sade was heavily anti-clerical - what seems like an obsession with hurting others came from a rejection of the right and wrong dichotomy as it was presented by the church.

His philosophy was: why do good when one can do bad?

Nobody can base a lifestyle on Sade, because his writings are actually boring as hell (anybody tried, yet?) - unless raping nuns and sticking candles up their orifices counts as fantasy-fodder to anybody (why not, I guess...).

To get back to the original post, I never cease to wonder how intelligent people need to base their entire belief system and philosophy of life on a series of badly-written pulp fiction novels which were written as a reaction to the feminist movement in the '60s. Or on Star Trek. Or anything else. I just. Don't. Under. Stand.

Help!



petdave -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 9:28:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

Maybe religion veiled kink.



Ah, now that opens a whole 'nother discussion... there are a lot of BDSM undertones in religion, particularly Catholicism, if i remember correctly. Pain as penitence, suffering as redemption, submission to the church, submission of the woman to the Man... It really gets into a three-way chicken and egg thing (and NOT in the TOS-violating sense [:D]) between human nature, religion, and the drive to control others...

But, yeah, that was pretty hot [8D]



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 10:53:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

Maybe religion veiled kink.



Ah, now that opens a whole 'nother discussion... there are a lot of BDSM undertones in religion, particularly Catholicism, if i remember correctly. Pain as penitence, suffering as redemption, submission to the church, submission of the woman to the Man... It really gets into a three-way chicken and egg thing (and NOT in the TOS-violating sense [:D]) between human nature, religion, and the drive to control others...

But, yeah, that was pretty hot [8D]



lol yes..nice view 



breatheasone -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 10:56:02 AM)

quote:

To get back to the original post, I never cease to wonder how intelligent people need to base their entire belief system and philosophy of life on a series of badly-written pulp fiction novels which were written as a reaction to the feminist movement in the '60s. Or on Star Trek. Or anything else. I just. Don't. Under. Stand.

Help!

I don't get it either.



spoiledprincess9 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 10:59:11 AM)

Amen to that. I'm only 5'1, maybe I'll start pretending I'm from a race of hobbits out of the Lord of the Rings series.



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 11:02:35 AM)

quote:

T
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol



To get back to the original post, I never cease to wonder how intelligent people need to base their entire belief system and philosophy of life on a series of badly-written pulp fiction novels which were written as a reaction to the feminist movement in the '60s. Or on Star Trek. Or anything else. I just. Don't. Under. Stand.

Help!


but does it matter if it makes other happy, that peopel don't understand them
Many don't understand bdsm either

the judged..judge



Maestro66babycak -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 11:03:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

Elsewhere there is a thread running which questions the fascination some people have with the Gor novels.

Not being too interested in why certain people are entranced by those book or by shiny things, I'd rather inquire as to whether any, well, actual literature has amassed a gor-esque BDSM following.

Whether it has or hasn't, would any of you be interested in taking most of your personal kinky cues from a favorite literary source?

If a strange planet is required then we might be inspired by Vonnegut to become Tralfamadorians. Vonnegut fans who wanted to concentrate on CBT could go with a Slapstick theme instead, I guess.

And so it goes (you golden-shower freaks.)

Or we could kink-out to the musings of Douglas Adams (lots of planets to choose from.) Think: The Hitchiker's Guide to BDSM and on Alternate Thursdays Also L, Q, That Symbol Prince Used For a While, and C.

Staying science-fictiony and letting the literary standards slip even further would make it easy for Starwarians to imagine up the world where The Empire Strikes Your Back.

Honestly though, I'm hoping to hear about a bunch of people taking their cues from, say Chaucer, or Camus, or Conrad, or Woody Allen.

Can I get any help with this?

HOW ABOUT SHAKESPEARE? Shakespeare shouldn't be all that difficult to base a community of kinky obsession on, forsooth's sake. But why limit ourselves to fiction? How hard would it be to chain a power-exchange community to Machiavelli?

If Machiavelli is too archaic for you then consider his literary heirs in the contemporary self-help genre. If that Norman guy can inspire such devotion in the Gorapotamians, imagine the kink community which decides to focus itself on the works of Tony Robbins. C'mon sensation players, this is the guy who gave us: "The only limit to your impact is your imagination and commitment."

But wait, we were gonna try to shoot for quality literature.  Hmmm ...

Sticking with self-help, those hoping to explore kinky spirituality (and bondage in particular) might take up the writings of Julianna the Anchoriteof Norwich. Of course it is self-evident which fetishists might hang on every word from John of the Cross.

Or just stay with novels if you want. You pick the books, but please pick good ones this time. Whether it is Dickens or Faulkner or Tanizaki or E. Annie Proulx, please respond in this thread with your ideas for a book-inspired kink community with more than three letters in its name.

Thanks







Thank you for posting this Noah! Everytime I post something 'anti-gor' it gets deleted!
I agree with you !
 
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RedMagic1 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 11:05:35 AM)

Judgment is healthy, and necessary.  Think of all the threads from people saying, "All my common sense is telling me X, but my brand-new, online-only-so-far Master is telling me Y.  What should I do?"  Kinky people don't get to check their critical thinking at the door.



Justme696 -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 11:11:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Judgment is healthy, and necessary.  Think of all the threads from people saying, "All my common sense is telling me X, but my brand-new, online-only-so-far Master is telling me Y.  What should I do?"  Kinky people don't get to check their critical thinking at the door.


judgement shouldn't be mixed up with having an opinion. But anyway...to stay on topic..
there are books about it..if people want to read :P



Level -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 11:12:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spoiledprincess9

Amen to that. I'm only 5'1, maybe I'll start pretending I'm from a race of hobbits out of the Lord of the Rings series.


Nice pic. [:D]
 
To the OP..... Noah, you may be on to something.
 
Oralists could learn from The Fountainhead-giver.
 
Or The Lord of the Flyswatters, about a dominant that had a fondness for household implements.
 
Henry James' The Golden Bowl could guide pee-freaks.
 
A Handful of Nuts for any Evelyn Waugh/cbt fans?
 
Howard's End, analists? Or a Margaret Atwoodian A Handmaid's Tail?
 
Death Cums for the Archbishop, for the Neil Gaiman/Willa Cather sect.
 
Nasty ol' literature.....
 
 



Hotch -> RE: The Un-Gor (2/9/2008 11:43:08 AM)

I guess I'm just a fair weather Libertine.  I can't commit myself to be completely devoid of moral restraint, but I don't need some fictional consecration to justify my actions.



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