RE: The Un-Gor

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: The Un-Gor

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The Un-Gor

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 11:55:26 AM

Nineveh

Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

And what about that Marquis deSade guy? I heard he really started something way back when.

He treats females as bad as they are treated in the Gor books. Though de Sade is seen as an icon..and the Gorean people are treated as outcast or cycos...
haha funny..makes me always wonder if people read the books...or just the reviews

(reply at all btw)

The little of DeSade's work that I tried to read was as poorly written as the Gor that I tried to read, althoguh it is possible that the translator may have had something to do with it.

(in reply to Justme696)

Profile

Post #: 41

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 1:08:19 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

DeSade is rather funny, if you read him in the right light. Half of his writings are poor political diatribes (he did, after all, live both before and through the French Revolution) and then the other half is made up of contrived stories which extist to be both porn, and examples of him "presenting his opinion as fact."

When it comes to Norman, I could care less if his fourth rate adventure novels were written as a reaction to feminisim or not. Shitty writting is shitty writing. If you want to read some kick ass sword and scocery books, pick up pretty much anything written by Karl Edward Wagner, or Michael Moorcock, or Sprauge De Camp, Donald Wollheim, or Andre Norton, Robert E. Howard, John Jakes, Fritz Leiber, C.L. Moore, A. Merritt, (or my personal fave) Henry Kuttner! There are litterally (pun) dozens of authors who write this stuff better than Norman! When you've tasted the real stuff, you begin to realize just how pathetic the writing in Gor is.

As far as it's "philosophy" goes... well, I'm no longer allowed by the powers that be on this site to voice my opinion on the matter. I've had my account threatened with long term moderation because I've talked about it before. So, the cult of Gor complained, and has squelched (in my case) freedom of speech. Just remember, Goreans say they are a philosophy of honesty, integitry, blah, blah, blah... which infers that the rest of us...aren't.

(in reply to Nineveh)

Profile

Post #: 42

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 1:16:08 PM

sweetwenchie

Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

bipolarber.. i have my own opinions on Gor, mostly those opinions fall into the "to each their own category". Your last comment made me stop and wonder though... how does their thinking that they follow a philosophy of integrity and honesty somehow infer than no one else does? i would think that one can only take offense to that if they are looking for a reason to be offended. It is like being offended by Buddhists stating that they follow a philosophy of learning how to live a happy and peaceful life. Does that mean that they automatically believe that only they can have happy and peaceful lives? Can only they through meditation reach a higher plane? Of course not. (Yes, i am aware i was simplifying the Buddhist teachings and philosophy as that was not truly the direction i was going.)

Personally i try not to infer that i am somehow less because i do not follow their tenets. They are happy with their life, and i am happy with mine. There is room in this kinky ass thing we do for quite a few philosophies and paths.

~edited due to typos... the bane of my secretarial existence~

< Message edited by sweetwenchie -- 2/9/2008 1:20:28 PM >

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." - De Beauvoir

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

(in reply to bipolarber)

Profile

Post #: 43

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 1:34:18 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

I guess it's the difference between Buddhists seeking to improve themselves, and Goreans seeking to push their views on others. Buddists don't prosthetize (sp?) but that can't be said of the other group. Also, I've never known a Buddhist to immediately start hurling insults at people who ask questions, or offer a differing opinon.

Oh, and I'm not someone who got up one day and decided, "Oh, I think I'll dislike the Gorean philosophy today." No, I've come to my opinion about it thanks to several friends getting hurt by it, a taking a lot of crap from them over the years. I've watched them destroy several RT groups, wreck friendhips and generally fuck over the local community. True, the actions of these people may be just a few bad apples, from your POV, but to me, as long as the philosophy allows people to screw over others just because someone sees themselves as being "more powerful," then I will continue to consider Gor to be a worthless, base, dangerous "philosophy."

Please note that I have not mentioned anyone specifically, nor have I ever done so in stating my opinions. I only have a problem with the ideas behind Gor, not the people who follow it. It's my understanding that the whole reason for this message board is to discuss such ideas openly.

(in reply to sweetwenchie)

Profile

Post #: 44

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 1:35:15 PM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline

http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/120Days/

for those who want to read De Sade with out buying it

_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to bipolarber)

Profile

Post #: 45

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 1:43:10 PM

sweetwenchie

Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

i was not attempting to challenge your views on them, nor your right to think and feel however you want about them. i was merely presenting my own thoughts on your words.

i myself have only had one or two negative interactions with those who follow Gor, certainly not enough to make me view Goreans as a whole in a negative way. You are correct though, in my point of view those were bad apples, and not indicative of everyone who follows the Gorean philosophies.

To each their own

one of the luxuries of living in a society where each of us are allowed freedom of thought.

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." - De Beauvoir

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

(in reply to bipolarber)

Profile

Post #: 46

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 2:20:17 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

I don’t follow scripts. Every book I’ve read has influenced me in a way that lets me think in a different way. I gain a real power that is useful in D/s from being the person I am. I can make her desire me so much that it is enslaving. (Now this is not so egotistical when you consider I may desire her just as much.) So asking that question is akin to asking me what writers have influenced me the most. Biographies aside (which I find so valuable), Kerouac, Bukowski, Kafka, Hemingway, Ginsberg, Iceberg Slim and on and on.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Noah)

Profile

Post #: 47

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 2:25:34 PM

outlier

Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

Noah,

Shakespeare you ask? The obvious answer here would be
The Taming Of The Shrew. I understand that there have been
feminist disputes about it being a dream within a play but it is about
the woman being tamed. After all, Kate does end the play with a
monologue explaining that wives should always be obedient to their
husbands who they should view as their lords.

And don't forget the delightful and witty musical version
Kiss Me Kate with music and lyrics by Cole Porter.
These include the song Brush Up Your Shakespeare.
which were edited because they were considered too
bawdy for the 1950's movie version.

Lyrics

The girls today in society go for classical poetry
So to win their hearts one must quote with ease
Aeschylus and Euripides
One must know Homer, and believe me, Beau
Sophocles, also Sappho-ho
Unless you know Shelley and Keats and Pope
Dainty Debbies will call you a dope

But the poet of them all
Who will start 'em simply ravin'
Is the poet people call
The Bard of Stratford on Avon

{Refrain}
Brush up your Shakespeare
Start quoting him now
Brush up your Shakespeare
And the women you will wow

Just declaim a few lines from Othella
And they'll think you're a hell of a fella
If your blonde won't respond when you flatter 'er
Tell her what Tony told Cleopatterer

If she fights when her clothes you are mussing
What are clothes? Much ado about nussing
Brush up your Shakespeare
And they'll all kow-tow

{Refrain}

With the wife of the British ambessida
Try a crack out of Troilus and Cressida
If she says she won't buy it or tike it
Make her tike it, what's more As You Like It

If she says your behavior is heinous
Kick her right in the Coriolanus
Brush up your Shakespeare
And they'll all kow-tow

{Refrain}

If you can't be a ham and do Hamlet
They will not give a damn or a damlet
Just recite an occasional sonnet
And your lap'll have honey upon it

When your baby is pleading for pleasure
Let her sample your Measure for Measure
Brush up your Shakespeare
And they'll all kow-tow - Forsooth
And they'll all kow-tow - I' faith
And they'll all kow-tow

{Refrain}

Better mention "The Merchant Of Venice"
When her sweet pound o' flesh you would menace
If her virtue, at first, she defends---well
Just remind her that "All's Well That Ends Well"

And if still she won't give you a bonus
You know what Venus got from Adonis
Brush up your Shakespeare
And they'll all kow-tow - Thinkst thou?
And they'll all kow-tow - Odds bodkins
And they'll all kow-tow

{Refrain}

If your goil is a Washington Heights dream
Treat the kid to "A Midsummer Night's Dream"
If she then wants an all-by-herself night
Let her rest ev'ry 'leventh or "Twelfth Night"

If because of your heat she gets huffy
Simply play on and "Lay on, Macduffy!"
Brush up your Shakespeare
And they'll all kow-tow - Forsooth
And they'll all kow-tow - Thinkst thou?
And they'll all kow-tow - We trou'
And they'll all kow-tow

_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

(in reply to Noah)

Profile

Post #: 48

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 4:03:23 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I don't care for Gor, the books arent written that well and I find male supremacy as laughable as female supremacy. I prefer the books written by R.A Salvatore, though the BDSM content is on a lesser scale they are interesting and well written IMHO. I've read several short stories which were good but there is no book that I'd form my life after. I do my own thing, always have, always will.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to outlier)

Profile

Post #: 49

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 5:44:51 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline

For those who don't "Gor", this short story was written by "Elle" and posted to usenet a long time ago. It is a spoof of Norman's books and, in style at least, it is spot on.

HOUSEPLANTS OF GOR

The spider plant cringed as its owner brought forth the watering can. "I am
a spider plant!" it cried indignantly. "How dare you water me before my
time! Guards!" it called. "Guards!"

Borin, its owner, placed the watering can on the table and looked at it.
"You will be watered," he said.

"You do not dare to water me!" laughed the plant.

"You will be watered," said Borin.
"Do not water me!" wept the plant.
"You will be watered," said Borin.

I watched this exchange. Truly, I believed the plant would be watered. It
was plant, and on Gor it had no rights. Perhaps on Earth, in its permissive
society, which distorts the true roles of all beings, which forces both
plant and waterer to go unhappy and constrained, which forbids the
fulfillment of owner and houseplant, such might not happen. Perhaps there,
it would not be watered. But it was on Gor now, and would undoubtedly feel
its true place, that of houseplant. It was plant. It would be watered at
will. Such is the way with plants.

Borin picked up the watering can, and muchly watered the plant. The plant
cried out. "No, Master! Do not water me!" The master continued to water the
plant. "Please, Master," begged the plant, "do not water me!" The master
continued to water the plant. It was plant. It could be watered at will.

The plant sobbed muchly as Borin laid down the watering can. It was not
pleased. Too, it was wet. But this did not matter. It was plant.

"You have been well watered," said Borin.

"Yes," said the plant, "I have been well watered." Of course, it could be
watered by its master at will.

"I have watered you well," said Borin.
"Yes, master," said the plant. "You have watered your plant well. I am
plant, and as such I should be watered by my master."

The cactus plant next to the spider plant shuddered. It attempted to cover
its small form with its small arms and small needles. "I am plant," it said
wonderingly. "I am of Earth, but for the first time, I feel myself truly
plantlike. On Earth, I was able to control my watering. I often scorned
those who would water me. But they were weak, and did not see my scorn for
what it was, the weak attempt of a small plant to protect itself. Not one
of the weak Earth waterers would dare to water a plant if it did not wish
it.

But on Gor," it shuddered, "on Gor it is different. Here, those who
wish to water will water their plants as they wish. But strangely, I feel
myself most plantlike when I am at the mercy of a strong Gorean master, who
may water me as he pleases."

"I will now water you," said Borin, the cactus's Gorean master.

The cactus did not resist being watered. Perhaps it was realizing that such
watering was its master's to control. Too, perhaps it knew that this master
was far superior to those of Earth, who would not water it if it did not
wish to be watered.

The cactus's watering had been finished. The spider plant looked at it.
"I have been well watered," it said.

"I, too, have been well watered," said the cactus.

"My master has watered me well," said the spider plant.

"My master, too, has watered me well," said the cactus.

"I am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the spider
plant.

"I, too, am to be placed in a hnaging basket on the porch," said the
cactus.

"I wish you well," said the spider plant.

"I, too, wish you well," said the cactus.

"Tal," said the spider plant.

"Tal, too," said the cactus.

I did not think that the spider plant would object to being watered by its
master again. For it realized that it was plant, and that here, unlike on
Earth, it was likely to be owned and watered by many masters.

(in reply to Noah)

Profile

Post #: 50

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 5:52:30 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

That's my favorite Gor parody ever. I even thought of posting it, but chickened out. Tracy, you're a genius! Where have you been all my life? I just tried to email you, but you have no profile on the other side. Make one, or I will be forced to declare my love in public where all can see!

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Profile

Post #: 51

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 5:56:50 PM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafters

http://www.sca.org/
I won't comment on the girls, they hang round guys with swords.

No, a lot of us fight with the swords.

(in reply to Rafters)

Profile

Post #: 52

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 6:08:13 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I just tried to email you, but you have no profile on the other side. Make one, or I will be forced to declare my love in public where all can see!

I was going to thank you for your kind words early today and forgot.

I made one, and it's all true

(the married and monogamous parts actually are true).

< Message edited by TracyTaken -- 2/9/2008 6:09:08 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Profile

Post #: 53

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 6:20:25 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

I'm in a relationship and not looking. Perv my profile and you'll see.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Profile

Post #: 54

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 6:59:06 PM

amadeus77

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline

And yet some titles of literature disappoint. These, for example, sound like they'd be kinky, but not so...

Black Beauty by Anna Sewell. Not a hint of multi-racial kink to be found.
Bleak House by Charles Dickens. Not a single dungeon in it.
Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky. Great literature, but what a missed opportunity!
Eight Cousins by Louisa May Alcott. If you're looking for family fun, forget it.
Father Goriot by Honore Balzac. No slaves. No alternate planets. Phooey.
Hard Times by Dickens.
Jo's Boys by Louisa May Alcott. Where's Jo, the Domme?
Kidnapped by Robert Louis Stevenson. Oh, you mean THAT kind of kidnapped...
Of Human Bondage by Somerset Maugham. No B, much less D, S, or M.
Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens. Not a threesome I could find.
The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells. What -- you're invisible and THAT's all you could think to do?
The Man in the Iron Mask by Alexandre Dumas. Pure vanilla.
The Mysterious Affair at Styles by Agatha Christie. Can you have an affair without somebody cheating?
The Odyssey by Homer. I expected a dictionary of kink, but came away disappointed.

Amadeus77

(in reply to outlier)

Profile

Post #: 55

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 7:09:13 PM

sextoygirlNY

Posts: 194
Joined: 7/25/2007
From: Long Island, NY
Status: offline

Tracy,
I must admit that is the first time i have ever read Houseplants of gor, the parody. Yet while others may laught and mock at it, i see so much truth and insite in that little story. Think about it, the houseplant doesnt want to be watered, yet it is the Master who is giving the very essense that the houseplant needs to survive. Watering it at his choosing, which in turn is going to force the plant to be true to its nature, to grow, to mature, and be a beautiful piece of property.
The Master wants to see his plant blossom, and wants to see the full use and potential of his property, and no matter how much his property whined and complained about the water, it was the plant that succumed to the will of him.

Thank you for sharing this story.
wishes you well,
melanie

_____________________________

Don't Dream It, Be It!

Do not ask how to live, but instead proceed to do so.

"Do i have a choice?" Of course you do, but it would please me if you said "on it"

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Profile

Post #: 56

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 7:56:11 PM

flowerinyourhand

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline

I remember being moved while reading "the Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran:

When love beckons to you follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning......

Just a piece of his work...makes me shiver everytime I read it...

_____________________________

in service to HIM ever minute of every day

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Profile

Post #: 57

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/9/2008 8:16:08 PM

feylin

Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline

Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Ah, the Mord-Sith and their agiels would be more appealing to DeSade, but Kahlan's ability to touch a person and have them become an instant, no-limits slave to her might appeal to a Domme or two? ( "Confessors" running rampant without needing a Wonder Woman lasso -- boggles the mind.)

Wizards and witches and Gratch, oh my...a little something for everyone with the Wizard Rules thrown in for moral one-upmanship. (Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid. But I especially like Wizard's Eighth Rule: Deserve victory.)

The series got too dark for me sometime after Book 4 (all humor drained out in the big war), but that might appeal to the masses in this day and age. It really is a cult waiting to happen.

I absolutely appreciate and enjoy the followers of the Gorean philosophy I have met and spent time with over the years. It is a small group that affects me in incredible, surprising ways -- so, I cannot jump on the bash bandwagon, but I did enjoy your "And so it goes," comment having just listened to my first Vonnegut novel recently. I wondered if I would hear (read) that again and, for some odd reason, looked forward to it. Thank you.

Typically, I leave the smart reading for the smart people, but I have enjoyed several of Ayn Rand's novels and would not mind chatting up a few followers of her. After reading this thread, I plan to stay away from any DeSade writings. Hitchhiker's is pure brain candy, but definitely would not want to live there. Too chaotic.

So my vote is for a Sword of Truth following. Who wants to be the dragon that promises to eat people later...if she has time?

Christine

Edited since I forgot how to spell eighth..but it was ironic coming right after "people are stupid." If you cannot be kind, at least be funny.

< Message edited by feylin -- 2/9/2008 8:20:15 PM >

(in reply to Noah)

Profile

Post #: 58

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/10/2008 12:15:52 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

TracyTaken Thats an awesome parody.... Thanks for sharing that I've never seen that before.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Profile

Post #: 59

RE: The Un-Gor - 2/10/2008 12:35:08 AM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

FR:

This is Dick.

This is Jane.

See Dick whip Jane. Whip Dick whip!

See Jane moan. Moan Jane moan!

Jane is bored. See Jane fidget. See Jane switch.

See Dick beg. Beg Dick beg!

Dick is poly. See Sue, Sally, Janet and Bob.

Dick says "Jane, find me a sister sub to play with!"

See Jane fidget. Fidget Jane fidget.

Jane is not poly. See Jane go.

This is Tom. Tom is a twue Dom. See Tom command. See Tom give orders. See Tom give Jane a Collar of Consideration. See Jane run. Run Jane, run.

This is Suzie. Suzie is into humiliation. See Suzie beg. Beg Suzie beg. See Suzie beg Sally, Janet and Bob. Beg more, Suzie. Beg! More, begs Suzie. Humiliate me more.

See Spot...

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to breatheasone)

Profile

Post #: 60